The Art Of The Check

[White Masquerade]

Okay, so here is a discussion centered around the topic of Interest Checks. It is a very simple question, but because there might be complex answers, I have listed 4 options on the poll, instead of 2. There are two parts to the question. The first is whether you take time and effort to make your interest check look nice, and the second, whether that matters in your opinion at all. Please keep things civil and respect other's space! Anything off topic and irrelevant you read here, just ignore and pay it no mind. I know that tends to happen a lot in discussion topics.


Now moving onto the discussion. I believe your check should look nice and do put effort into the ones I make, but have come across a...certain individual  :x , who believes otherwise. They claim that the check is what the check is, and anyone who's not interested in the straight-talk they see, wouldn't be best or likely to stay around anyway.


^ Now this I have an issue with. I believe you do need to spruce things up and you can't throw presentation under the bus like that. Sure you might get hardcore players to jump in what you're doing, but that's ALL you'll get to. It's throwing away the chance to appeal to those that might not be in your target of audience. You don't know the future, so you really can't say for sure that someone initially attracted by the beauty of the check, will eventually drop once they find what the RP is really about. That's so pessimistic and quick judging. You might miss out on people that could one day turn out to be some of the best RP friends you'd ever meet.


I think having plain interest checks is taking the "easy way out" of recruitment. However, I can understand the other side of the argument in that plain checks draw only who's really interested.






Thoughts? Comments? Rebuttals? Please reply below. And don't forget to vote on the poll!

 

[Shin Positron Laser]

I do not make too much effort and in my opinion it does not matter.


Assuming you are speaking of Coding, pictures, stylizing text etc, when referring to 'Good looking' interest checks, I spend little to no time for those things.


I concentrate on laying out the information as plainly as possible but as detailed as possible. Basic aspects include, what I as GM expect players, what players


will get from me, what the Roleplay has to offer a player and a basic plot description.


I understand interest checks as a way potential players look at a GM. It can be quite the judging of outward appearance as the term 'good looking' implies.


It has most likely happened to myself, where they look at the interest check, thought it was plain and decided it was not for them.

 

[White Masquerade]

I do not make too much effort and in my opinion it does not matter.


Assuming you are speaking of Coding, pictures, stylizing text etc, when referring to 'Good looking' interest checks, I spend little to no time for those things.


I concentrate on laying out the information as plainly as possible but as detailed as possible. Basic aspects include, what I as GM expect players, what players


will get from me, what the Roleplay has to offer a player and a basic plot description.


I understand interest checks as a way potential players look at a GM. It can be quite the judging of outward appearance as the term 'good looking' implies.


It has most likely happened to myself, where they look at the interest check, thought it was plain and decided it was not for them.

Understood. I have a question for you then. Are your interest checks successful and draw comments? Or as you begin the roleplay and people see what it's about, do you find the most people join? 

 

[Shin Positron Laser]

Understood. I have a question for you then. Are your interest checks successful and draw comments? Or as you begin the roleplay and people see what it's about, do you find the most people join? 

The clearly defines parameters of the player that I put in the Interest check would probably be more of a deterrent to 'likes' and 'comments' on the Check than the actual 'look', as far as I can tell. 


It also tells a player how much interest it will take to for me as GM to invest my time and energy in creating the RP.


My interest checks so far have gone as follows.


The principle Journey first attempt == Lots of interest == 8 players join == RP DEAD


Wayne Orphanage == Ton of Interest == 13+ players join == RP DEAD


Cardcaptor/Yugioh == Very little interest


The World Hack//Sign == Very little interest


Fushigi Yuugi Sealing of the Four Gods == Ton of interest == 12+ players == RP DEAD


Suikoden 7 The Stars of Destiny == Lots of interest == 7 players == RP DEAD


The Principle Journey Reincarnated == Lots of interest == 8+ players == RP in Progress with 12 players.


As the last one shows, once people see the actual RP, those who have an interest are more likely to commit to something with substance.


Of course, I would say I am a newbie. If you are a well known GM/RPer on the site, people automatically flock to your RPs by association than the 'look' of you interest check

 

[call me rae]

I do put effort into making mine nice, because i like things to have a certain symmetry when i make them, and i also think it helps to but things in neat easy lines.


But I don't really thing it's going to break your roleplay to not put coding or graphics or anything.


I do think you need the basics - bold things that are important, put breaks in paragraphs, possibly make a header of some sort to distinguish if this is rules/fandoms/etc.


Ex. of basic organization

blah blah random introduction


MY RULES


blah blah


this is important


MY IDEAS


blah blah


blah blah 


blah blah


MY PAIRINGS


A x B


A x B 

But you don't need much more than that really. People will read your stuff even if it's not pretty. It will just be easier to read if it's at least organized.

 

[Grey]

You can name and shame me, Masq.


Look; I'm a writer, not a graphic designer. Every second I spend on learning to create and apply fancy wrapping for my text is time that I am not working on anything within my interests or skillset, and since I roleplay for fun, it would also cut down on how much time I actually spend getting any benefit from the process. The end result would likely be mediocre at best.


So far, lack of pretty checks has had zero impact on my success.  Indeed, the one time I actually bothered was that contest you ran (using the given template), and I lost that. 


Now, if I could afford to commission someone to do the fancy stuff for me? I might consider it. 

 

[Inner Power]

Good looking as far as some rules, plots, and pairings then absolutely. I'll try to be as precise as I possibly can that way there is no confusion. Designs and the like, I don't focus on as it's not my thing and I'm not good with it so I just leave it alone.

 

[Lost Swordlance]

Pairings... Kids these days. 

 

[call me rae]

You can name and shame me, Masq.


Look; I'm a writer, not a graphic designer. Every second I spend on learning to create and apply fancy wrapping for my text is time that I am not working on anything within my interests or skillset, and since I roleplay for fun, it would also cut down on how much time I actually spend getting any benefit from the process. The end result would likely be mediocre at best.


So far, lack of pretty checks has had zero impact on my success.  Indeed, the one time I actually bothered was that contest you ran (using the given template), and I lost that. 


Now, if I could afford to commission someone to do the fancy stuff for me? I might consider it. 

There are tutorials and people in the blogs/threads that actually will make HTML and graphics for you if you ask. And on this site they do it all for free. 

 

[Dusky]

I bother with prettying it because I enjoy the process; it's entirely inessential.

 

[Grey]

And on this site they do it all for free. 

I know. But I'd rather compensate someone for the work or not have it at all. 

 

[call me rae]

I know. But I'd rather compensate someone for the work or not have it at all. 

lol the basics aren't really all that hard. if you use @ViAdvena's cheat sheet you can get a pretty sleek look with only a minor tweaks. and graphics aren't as hard as you'd think if your only looking for simple things. most people i know welcome the chances to practice actually.it's why i used to give out free post layouts on gaia. i only charged in game money when i needed to buy some item that i wanted. otherwise i just did it because i wanted to practice and see how good i could get exploiting the coding of that site or my old version of photoshop.


plus they're slowly and surely adding in buttons that let you do a lot of the stuff anyway. so all you really need worry about is the graphics and those are things people tend to make for free as a part of a trial and error of their editing software or as a portfolio in case they choose to sell 'em on another site.

 

[White Masquerade]

@Shin Positron Laser


Okay, that is fair. I can agree with people committing once they see an RP has some substance after it begins. Doesn't the amount of care a person puts into their interest check though, kind of tell the people who are watching what care will be put into the actual thread? A GM who will make good effort to keep the roleplay strong, will naturally put that same kind of care into the Interest Check for it right? Would I be wrong to say that?


@call me rae


I like that answer. I do believe at minimum you have to make the thing look ordered. I am not saying I'm for or against this opinion, but do you think generally, an interest check is a good reflection of the GM/RP you're getting into? Empty Interest Checks tend to lead to empty roleplays. Colorful and shippy Interest checks tend to lead to colorful and shippy roleplays. Would you agree with that?


@Grey


xD  Grey, you are the one.


I think your submission for the competition was an amazing, big step up. There were not a lot of votes, so don't count that loss, haha. I think the idea you went with impacted the result as well; which is an interesting dynamic I might get into if the discussion heads there.


So let me ask, does it not bother you at all if you were to put up a "non-pretty" interest check? If you could afford to have someone commission doing the fancy stuff for you, then you would have all of your checks looking fantastic bar none? It'd be preferred?


I do get where you are coming from with learning coding,etc takes time away from what you actually want to do. For some, coding definitely does take focus away from substance. While few and far between, I have seen heavily coded roleplays go absolutely nowhere due to lack of everything else.


@Anomaly


Hm, Anomaly, I have to follow up with you on that one. Two questions that I asked to others. Do you think an interest check is generally a good reflection of the RP it will lead to? Do you yourself not take any hints from someone's interest checks on whether to join their roleplay?


And


=P I think you're good at code right? I wanted to ask you the question I posed Grey. Would you be comfortable then, putting up Interest checks for all your roleplays, that was bland and simplistic?

 

[Shin Positron Laser]

@Shin Positron Laser


Okay, that is fair. I can agree with people committing once they see an RP has some substance after it begins. Doesn't the amount of care a person puts into their interest check though, kind of tell the people who are watching what care will be put into the actual thread? A GM who will make good effort to keep the roleplay strong, will naturally put that same kind of care into the Interest Check for it right? Would I be wrong to say that?

Very much so. I was referring mostly to the interest check in appearance regarding the use of pictures, videos, Coding etc.


I do agree that more effort that is put into the Interest Check the more one may get out of it. In my case, the 'more effort' would be in terms of " Organized Walls of text "  and detailed explanations regarding the different facets of the RP you wish to build. Other things that help are timely responses to questions and comments. This can be tricky and many times out of ones control however.

 

[Grey]

I think the idea you went with impacted the result as well; which is an interesting dynamic I might get into if the discussion heads there.

A discussion thread on accessibility of concept and niche appeal, maybe?

does it not bother you at all if you were to put up a "non-pretty" interest check?

90% of my interest checks are purely text, sometimes with a music link, so it doesn't bother me at all. 

If you could afford to have someone commission doing the fancy stuff for you, then you would have all of your checks looking fantastic bar none? It'd be preferred?

Probably not all of them - asking someone to do that work takes time, references, negotiation, feedback, all things which result in a superior piece of advertising but extend your time to launch. Some RPs would benefit, others might be more time-critical (based on either my waning interesting in the concept or exploitation of the zeitgeist) and thus I'd likely skip it, and plenty of other ideas might not require something so grandiose.  Contextually preferred, perhaps?


It has just occurred to me that people are intimidated enough by my text that fancy code might even make it worse. 

 

[call me rae]

I like that answer. I do believe at minimum you have to make the thing look ordered. I am not saying I'm for or against this opinion, but do you think generally, an interest check is a good reflection of the GM/RP you're getting into? Empty Interest Checks tend to lead to empty roleplays. Colorful and shippy Interest checks tend to lead to colorful and shippy roleplays. Would you agree with that?


@White Masquerade

No. This isn't the kind of forum where more colorful or coded threads make much of a difference. As long as your information is ordered and as @Shin Positron Laser Said the details are gone over well enough.


now I know people used to use BBC Code to make things pretty and what not and I did enjoy seeing how people could get creative. But after the update we went back to basics.


and a lot of times even with BBC Code you made things too hard to read and busy looking. 


I think that that if you choose to embellish with codes that's your choice but I don't think a lack detracts from a roleplay in anyway. It's a nice bonus but in no way necessary

 

[White Masquerade]

@Shin Positron Laser


Understood. Alright then Shin. I don't think I had anymore questions for you. Did you have any for me?


@Grey


Definitely! I believe the idea was a good. Simply not a good choice for a contest where there was no follow-up or Q&A. Just post and go. I missed on considering that angle for my entry in a huge way  .


Lol. I honestly think fancy coding would help as opposed to hurt your checks. How I see it, no matter how fancy your graphics, they are simple for people to understand and digest. If you have walls and walls of tough text, using nice decorations would be like throwing milk into a bowl of dry cereal. It helps things go down easier. I feel that way because I don't think graphics/decoration can get complex or heavy in the same way text can.


One last  (maybe) question for you. Have you ever wished you had a wider spread of people wanting to join one of your roleplays? Maybe more diverse?


@call me rae





Okay. One last pair of questions for you too (maybe). So the look of an interest check has never made you pass over it if it was ordinary and had a generic title? Has any interest check with an extravagant presentation caught your eye and made you do a double-take to fully check it out?








I am getting from the responses here that making your Interest Check good-looking doesn't really matter all that much. The poll at the top of this discussion has an overwhelming # of voters saying it does matter. Why is that the case then? Could somebody explain what's going on with that then?

 

[Shin Positron Laser]

@Shin Positron Laser


Understood. Alright then Shin. I don't think I had anymore questions for you. Did you have any for me?

Not yet but this was a very insightful topic. Thank you.

 

[Grey]

Have you ever wished you had a wider spread of people wanting to join one of your roleplays? Maybe more diverse?

Of course, that's always a goal. I just don't think any amount of coding is going to make that happen.  I've mostly tried to focus on shorter, more direct and engaging interest checks. 

 

[call me rae]

@call me rae





Okay. One last pair of questions for you too (maybe). So the look of an interest check has never made you pass over it if it was ordinary and had a generic title? Has any interest check with an extravagant presentation caught your eye and made you do a double-take to fully check it out?








I am getting from the responses here that making your Interest Check good-looking doesn't really matter all that much. The poll at the top of this discussion has an overwhelming # of voters saying it does matter. Why is that the case then? Could somebody explain what's going on with that then?

Well a generic title is immaterial to the coding that goes on in a interest check. As you can name your interest check whatever you want without having to do zero coding or make it pretty.


And honestly to answer that specifically it depends on what the title is : for fandoms or specific themes I'll click on any title that has them just to see what the roleplay is like.


As for ordinary as long as it is clearly organized as I stated above than no lack of pretty graphics and such has never been a detriment.


And yes lots of flashy graphics or coding might make me do a double take but that doesn't mean i'll join. Especially if I can see the focus was more on making it pretty than in making a roleplay that makes sense or is engaging. 


I have had that happen on another site the person made website quality graphics for each and every one of their roleplay threads and even had great ideas. But not a one of them got off the ground because all the person cared about was making pretty things not in running the roleplay.


Plus as someone who does a lot of mobile checking of this site - the prettier graphics are just plain hard to read.


I mean sure a pretty graphics might get a second glance. But if the content is still boring than I don't see how making it pretty is going to really increase your chances.



Whereas if you focus more on content even if it's not pretty people will still join if they are interested in your story.


As for the poll I can't speak for everyone but when I voted I just made a mistake. I meant to click it's nice but doesn't matter but instead I clicked it's nice and it does matter. 

 

[Dusky]

Hm, Anomaly, I have to follow up with you on that one. Two questions that I asked to others. Do you think an interest check is generally a good reflection of the RP it will lead to? Do you yourself not take any hints from someone's interest checks on whether to join their roleplay?


And


=P I think you're good at code right? I wanted to ask you the question I posed Grey. Would you be comfortable then, putting up Interest checks for all your roleplays, that was bland and simplistic?

Ahaha, thank you for the compliment. I like to think I'm decent, albeit an amateur!


An interest check's visual component is reflective of the RP itself only inasmuch as the content is easy to navigate, absorb, etc. Organization is essential and visual distinction does help. And, of course, you set a tone with visual elements. Greyscale and hard corners suggest a different story than do bubbles and bright colors. However, these elements underscore content in a fairly minor way; in fact, they may serve to drive off people who would be well suited to the roleplay and draw in those who may not be, simply because of the aesthetics of a certain design. "This horror RP is 3edgy5me, neeeext," when really it's a sophisticated subtle terror in waiting, or, "Gosh this high school RP looks really cheery and light hearted, I'm not so sure about this!" when it actually draws inspiration from Yandere Sim.


The content is essential. Good organization is essential. Visual distinction is essential. "Sprucing up," however, is icing on the cake at best, distraction at worst; I wouldn't want it in every single interest check, and indeed, I have posted interest checks where I did not bother much with code, organization and a pretty header aside. Heavily coded interest checks induce a split-second decision; this looks good to me or it doesn't. Sometimes people read past that initial judgement, but often they don't. On the other hand, if it's primarily just content, they read in order to decide if they like it. Personally, a coded check might catch my eye, but my entire judgement is always, always on content. For reference, both the group roleplays I'm in right now are run by Grey, and there are few roleplays, pretty coding or not, that get me as hyped as his generally do.   So if ever there were two schools of thought...


I like to pretty things up in actual roleplay threads, and in particular in character sheets - because at that point people have already decided - but in an interest check, I want people to judge my content, not its container.


There's also the snaggle of code taking so much time.


On that note, I think code and content are pretty much entirely separate and you can't judge commitment to the project on that basis. I've spent so much time coding things that never even saw the light of day, because I, like many who pretty up their checks, enjoy coding. It isn't always - isn't often, even - because of the content. I'm proud of what I've coded and want people to see it and admire it and enjoy it, but it could just be Lorem Ipsum and I'd feel much the same. Similarly, I am proud of the roleplays I've pitched and want people to see and admire and enjoy them, but the code isn't what makes them what they are.


Now, if somebody has clearly gone above and beyond to make things easily organized, understood, accessed, etc, (with or without code) that means the GM is thinking about my experience as a player, and I will know that GM wants me to have a good time, and I will be many times more interested in joining.


(Shout out to @welian )


Now, have I missed anything...? I don't think so?


tl;dr


Do you think an interest check is generally a good reflection of the RP it will lead to?


As far as aesthetics go, not particularly.


Do you yourself not take any hints from someone's interest checks on whether to join their roleplay?


As far as aesthetics go, not particularly.


Would you be comfortable then, putting up Interest checks for all your roleplays, that was bland and simplistic?


In fact, I prefer it. Which is not to say it's not good to throw a little color in your header or whatever, but yeah, keep it simple! The content is anything but bland.

 

[welian]

In my defense, there's nothing sexier than a well-organized block of information with clearly delineated topic sections, unobtrusive body text, and a roleplay description that gets right to the point. Also tables. God, I love tables.

 

[White Masquerade]

@Grey


Understood. I can understand what you mean now with your views on good-looking checks. I have no further questions!

I mean sure a pretty graphics might get a second glance. But if the content is still boring than I don't see how making it pretty is going to really increase your chances.

This right here! All I wanted to get at what prettiness gets you that second glance. It you can say, "wakes the reader up" or kicks them out of that autopilot we can get into sometimes. Whether the check has substance or not, is another whole issue.

Whereas if you focus more on content even if it's not pretty people will still join if they are interested in your story.

This I can agree with  :smile1: . Highly agree with it. I have no further questions for you as well! Thank you.


@Anomaly


Excellent answer Anomaly; you did not miss a thing. I really like how you said having the wrong presentation can actually dissuade people from joining who would have otherwise been perfect. Amazing. You make me want to ask everyone one last question =)






@Shin Positron Laser


@call me rae


@Grey


@Anomaly


So one last question for you all because I am curious. This is not one you need to answer, and I will not follow up on your answer, but this is relevant to the discussion.


When looking for or finding a person to date/marry/get involved with romantically, would you/do you initially ignore how they look? Or do you honestly factor that into your opening decisions?


If this is too personal, feel free to answer one about work.


If you were a boss looking for and interviewing an employee, would you care how they looked while coming in to meet you for the first time? Or you give every person that comes in a full chance despite their appearances?

 

[Grey]

If you were a boss looking for and interviewing an employee, would you care how they looked while coming in to meet you for the first time? Or you give every person that comes in a full chance despite their appearances?

Depends. Are they looking for a modeling gig? Appearance might be relevant then. Any job where their appearance is irrelevant, I'd discount it from the hiring process - if a person has the qualifications and the right attitude, they're in. This does, of course, mean fighting the biases that form in the first few seconds of seeing a person but I try to stay on top of cognitive biases when I can, anyway.

 

[Shin Positron Laser]

So one last question for you all because I am curious. This is not one you need to answer, and I will not follow up on your answer, but this is relevant to the discussion.


When looking for or finding a person to date/marry/get involved with romantically, would you/do you initially ignore how they look? Or do you honestly factor that into your opening decisions?


If this is too personal, feel free to answer one about work.


If you were a boss looking for and interviewing an employee, would you care how they looked while coming in to meet you for the first time? Or you give every person that comes in a full chance despite their appearances?

This analogy would apply better towards Players than Interest Checks in my opinion.


Because an interest check has more than just the beautifying aspects to it, it would be incorrect to compare the interest check as a whole to the single factor of a persons physical appearance when considering courtship.


An interest check can provides much about the Future Roleplay and insight into the GM. That can be likened to learning more about the person in depth, personality, history, relatives, work, etc.


When one finally does join an RP, they would be in fact 'committing' in some larger way, which can be likened to either, formally announcing courtship between the two, living together or marriage.


lol if we go into detail about this analogy, the GM is typical shounen/shoujo protagonist and his players are his harem/reverse harem