Skyrim - Legion vs Stormcloaks

[ScreamSheets]

The Stormcloaks are a bunch of racist asshats, but I kinda like their moxy.


The Imperials just want to steal everyone else's sand castle, hurr durr civil war.


I chose Stromcloaks 90% of the time.

 

[Asgore Dreemurr]

To be honest I always went with Ralof then he told me to join the storm cloaks and that's who I always went with only because he did not call me "Prisoner"

 

[MrSquid123]

Legion cause the storm cloaks are rascists

 

[Donder172]

Legion cause the storm cloaks are rascists

The Legion isn't much better.

 

[NecroKnight]

Stormcloak.


Because in earnest, the Emperor is basically a glorified warlord. With no Septim blood nor ability to seal the barrier between Mundus and Oblivion.


Heck the Dragonborn has more claim - since they have dragonblood, like Talos and the Septim line did.

 

[MrSquid123]

The Legion isn't much better.

Legion is marginally less racist

 

[Donder172]

Legion is marginally less racist

except that they are kind of puppets of the most racist faction in all of Tamriel

 

[MrSquid123]

except that they are kind of puppets of the most racist faction in all of Tamriel

Just go on a rampage murdering all of said racist faction you can find! It's what I do!

 

[Khadame]

Side with the Stormcloaks, defeat the Empire and then overthrow Ulfric. Easy.

 

[NecroKnight]

Just go on a rampage murdering all of said racist faction you can find! It's what I do!

Do you have any proof, backing your Stormcloak racist-slogan? Or you just love the faction, who wanted to behead you for proximity?


(And if you start speaking, the common grunts are the proof. Then I'd slap you, cause they are the average mooks. I am meaning in terms, on the highest command and decision level)

 

[An Unknown Person]

I think the only time I sided with the Stormcloaks was on my very first character (Breton Mage).


I dont know, but I just can't feel like joining the Stormcloaks, and thinking about it, removing the Emire from Tamriel would be a death sentence, since they would be cornered by the Empire and the Thalmor could easily re-claim the land.

 

[Donder172]

[QUOTE="An Unknown Person]I think the only time I sided with the Stormcloaks was on my very first character (Breton Mage).
I dont know, but I just can't feel like joining the Stormcloaks, and thinking about it, removing the Emire from Tamriel would be a death sentence, since they would be cornered by the Empire and the Thalmor could easily re-claim the land.

[/QUOTE]
Yet it was becauwe of the Empire they got so much power, it was shown even after the treaty that the Dominion can be stopped.

 

[NecroKnight]

[QUOTE="An Unknown Person]I think the only time I sided with the Stormcloaks was on my very first character (Breton Mage).
I dont know, but I just can't feel like joining the Stormcloaks, and thinking about it, removing the Emire from Tamriel would be a death sentence, since they would be cornered by the Empire and the Thalmor could easily re-claim the land.

[/QUOTE]
One might ask - how the heck, will the Thalmor arrive there.


High Rock on one side, Hammerfell the other, Empire the third and the cold northern sea.


The moment the Empire invades on Thalmor orders, they lose any legitimacy they have.


And the Empire was the only thing allowing Thalmor free-access via treaty. The Stormcloaks don't have that.


And I doubt any Emperor would war against Skyrim, with Thalmor lying in wait.

 

[lazee]

I've refrained from discussing on this topic for such a long time on a Skyrim/Bethesda-related forum site I am also active in purely because of the spiderweb depth of it (and also because I am an ardent supporter of a Skyrim led by the Dragonborn). I guess I might try a shot at it here.


While my views on the two belligerents vary as I switch from character to character, I am inclined to side with the Empire on a personal level. Why? Because Stormcloak is not a valid dictionary word and it's annoying seeing those fucking red zig-zags I feel that the Empire has an objectively better long-term plan for our Province in the North. The Stormcloaks push for a Skyrim led by their own. When faced by an outside threat (such as the Dominion or the Akaviri or even the Sloads), it's not far-fetched to think that they'll have to deal with such threats...on their own. No Empire means no Concordat, fair game, but it also means Skyrim loses an important ally. The Empire cares about Skyrim, why would they waste so many resources on this civil war if they didn't? There's a chance the Empire can gain its lost legs in coming years, sooner with the help of united provinces. Only then do we push back the pointy eared menace and return to our Lord and Savior Talos.

 

[NecroKnight]

How so?


The Empire lost - when they had Cyrodil, Hammerfell, Skyrim and High Rock.


When Hammerfell was left to its own vices - they won against the Thalmor.


That tells me some command issues with the Empire. And say the Empire lost the second War? And they are forced to conceed Skyrim to the elves...


Well, that is bad - but yay for the Empire. The Empire lacks a Septim ruler - means no protection or Dragon Flame (Akatosh someting) against Daedra incursion.


One Jarl of Stormcloak said it best. "Ulfric is power-hungry man. But atleast he knows Ulfric - and Ulfric knows about Skyrim. Not some Emperor or Administrator miles away."


And your ruler for pro-Empire Skyrim. Elisif the 'Fair' who states she doesn't know jack about militancy - leaving her dependant aka puppet of the regional Legion commander. *sarcastic clap*


Bravo...

 

[lazee]

If both Ulfric and [insert Imperial figurehead here] initiated peaceful discourse which would surely lead to a favorable outcome for Skyrim, wouldn't that be swell? Continued conflict is precisely what the Thalmor needed, IIRC. This is a question my Dragonborn often poses: Why fight against instead of with?


Hammerfell's situation is not a sound comparison for Skyrim's, I'd think. At the time, the Dominion forces were, like, dead-set in conquering Cyrodiil. A campaign like that takes up massive amounts of resources. The Forebear resistance was just icing on the cake. For Hammerfell, they're facing off against a Dominion exhausted from Great War (especially the Battle of the Red Ring). Skyrim, however, is staring down the barrel of a fully-loaded Dominion with Thalmor rounds already in flight.


And if it was up to me, I'd have Jarl Ballin' Balgruuf bearing the Jagged Crown. Poor Elisif may be a smol bean, but I agree she's not fit for a Jarl.

 

[Actual Lizard Man]

I've always gone with the stormcloaks in my playthroughs just because I felt like they were in the right. Although my characters are always argonian (easy to guess considering my username) are discriminated against by the stormcloaks, I still felt that they were a better choice then siding with a faction that were puppets the the racial elitists that are the elves

 

[Donder172]

[QUOTE="Lazy Rocktime]If both Ulfric and [insert Imperial figurehead here] initiated peaceful discourse which would surely lead to a favorable outcome for Skyrim, wouldn't that be swell? Continued conflict is precisely what the Thalmor needed, IIRC. This is a question my Dragonborn often poses: Why fight against instead of with?
Hammerfell's situation is not a sound comparison for Skyrim's, I'd think. At the time, the Dominion forces were, like, dead-set in conquering Cyrodiil. A campaign like that takes up massive amounts of resources. The Forebear resistance was just icing on the cake. For Hammerfell, they're facing off against a Dominion exhausted from Great War (especially the Battle of the Red Ring). Skyrim, however, is staring down the barrel of a fully-loaded Dominion with Thalmor rounds already in flight.


And if it was up to me, I'd have Jarl Ballin' Balgruuf bearing the Jagged Crown. Poor Elisif may be a smol bean, but I agree she's not fit for a Jarl.

[/QUOTE]
Hammerfell showed the elves they were not undefeatable

 

[NecroKnight]

[QUOTE="Lazy Rocktime]If both Ulfric and [insert Imperial figurehead here] initiated peaceful discourse which would surely lead to a favorable outcome for Skyrim, wouldn't that be swell? Continued conflict is precisely what the Thalmor needed, IIRC. This is a question my Dragonborn often poses: Why fight against instead of with?
Hammerfell's situation is not a sound comparison for Skyrim's, I'd think. At the time, the Dominion forces were, like, dead-set in conquering Cyrodiil. A campaign like that takes up massive amounts of resources. The Forebear resistance was just icing on the cake. For Hammerfell, they're facing off against a Dominion exhausted from Great War (especially the Battle of the Red Ring). Skyrim, however, is staring down the barrel of a fully-loaded Dominion with Thalmor rounds already in flight.


And if it was up to me, I'd have Jarl Ballin' Balgruuf bearing the Jagged Crown. Poor Elisif may be a smol bean, but I agree she's not fit for a Jarl.

[/QUOTE]
As I stated before. How will the Thalmor get to Skyrim, in the first place? Move massive troops through Cyrodill or High Rock or Hammerfell? Chances are of that happening are zero - otherwise, they might as well, knock down Cyrodill first, since its closer and weaker now. The only other option, is going through the frozen north. To which Nords are easily adaptable to - since Skyrim is said to be a cold region.


Hammerfell, fought out the Thalmor - when an Empire, with fresh reinforcements from Skyrim couldn't do it. One might ask, why did the Empire sign the accords in the first place - if the Thalmor were so weak that Hammerfell could beat them alone.


And in reply to your conflict idea. In the Thalmor embassy itself, in a likely ambassador/spy' diary we get a clear reading. Namely continued civil war benefits the Thalmor. But for some reason, a Stormcloak victory isn't to their liking either? Now why is that so?


It doesn't mention anything, about a Legion victory. Namely stated, to keep the civil war going - but also for a reason, the idea of a Stormcloak victory isn't in the Thalmor interest either. Which in retrospect, kinda makes sense.


The Thalmor can only move, and round up Talos worshippers, cause they got the Empire by the balls - and via their immunity by Empire. They can do what they want. But say, when Skyrim is independant, they can easily kick those damn spying elves out. Who are they going to complain to? The Empire? Go knocking on the Empire doorstep? Well, that is their problem then.


But you easily remove the Thalmor influence, from Skyrim. If you stay Legion - then the Thalmor continue, their rounding up of Nords and other races. All thanks to the great Empire.


And your so called 'Imperial Delegate' just got assassinated. Ala the Emperor of Cyrodill getting assassinated by the Dark Brotherhood. If not by the Dragonborn, chances are somebody else would have done it themselves.


So who is next in line? The next Emperor? Will he better or worse? Uncertainty? Have fun with that kind of Empire.


I see the Empire as a sinking ship, with its captain replaced. Is it worth keeping it afloat, or cutting your losses and getting off it?

 

[Donder172]

As I stated before. How will the Thalmor get to Skyrim, in the first place? Move massive troops through Cyrodill or High Rock or Hammerfell? Chances are of that happening are zero - otherwise, they might as well, knock down Cyrodill first, since its closer and weaker now. The only other option, is going through the frozen north. To which Nords are easily adaptable to - since Skyrim is said to be a cold region.
Hammerfell, fought out the Thalmor - when an Empire, with fresh reinforcements from Skyrim couldn't do it. One might ask, why did the Empire sign the accords in the first place - if the Thalmor were so weak that Hammerfell could beat them alone.


And in reply to your conflict idea. In the Thalmor embassy itself, in a likely ambassador/spy' diary we get a clear reading. Namely continued civil war benefits the Thalmor. But for some reason, a Stormcloak victory isn't to their liking either? Now why is that so?


It doesn't mention anything, about a Legion victory. Namely stated, to keep the civil war going - but also for a reason, the idea of a Stormcloak victory isn't in the Thalmor interest either. Which in retrospect, kinda makes sense.


The Thalmor can only move, and round up Talos worshippers, cause they got the Empire by the balls - and via their immunity by Empire. They can do what they want. But say, when Skyrim is independant, they can easily kick those damn spying elves out. Who are they going to complain to? The Empire? Go knocking on the Empire doorstep? Well, that is their problem then.


But you easily remove the Thalmor influence, from Skyrim. If you stay Legion - then the Thalmor continue, their rounding up of Nords and other races. All thanks to the great Empire.


And your so called 'Imperial Delegate' just got assassinated. Ala the Emperor of Cyrodill getting assassinated by the Dark Brotherhood. If not by the Dragonborn, chances are somebody else would have done it themselves.


So who is next in line? The next Emperor? Will he better or worse? Uncertainty? Have fun with that kind of Empire.


I see the Empire as a sinking ship, with its captain replaced. Is it worth keeping it afloat, or cutting your losses and getting off it?

Let it sink and build a new one

 

[PolishedFruit]

Stormcloaks = racist

 

[NecroKnight]

Stormcloaks = racist

Is that the bare average soldier? Or are there any racist leaders amongst them Stormcloaks?


An in reply Legion = headchoppers

 

[PolishedFruit]

Is that the bare average soldier? Or are there any racist leaders amongst them Stormcloaks?
An in reply Legion = headchoppers

Even if it is just the leaders, that's the code of conduct, leaving no room for anyone but themselves. The legion has far superior social equality.

 

[NecroKnight]

Even if it is just the leaders, that's the code of conduct, leaving no room for anyone but themselves. The legion has far superior social equality.

Read your lore first - once your into the Stormcloaks, the upper element, won't treat you any differently. Any the initial racism, upon that - they are Nords fighting for Skyrim independence.


Could you mind they racism, as no other race - is apparently joining up to fight, against the anti-religious Empire - EXCEPT Nords only. Which chances being, are likely recruited from the common mass - through Ulfric' oratory anti-Thalmor skill.

 

[Stingraider]

Legion!