Viewpoint Roleplaying with younger roleplayers?

[GojiBean]

I had initially put together a rather massive rant on this subject. But in the end I felt it would have been a wasted effort to leave it as it was.

Instead, I'll leave only a few questions and some personal thoughts for everyone to consider.


Questions

(Kindly think about the first two on your own, and try to actually answer #3 and #4)

1. How does exclusionary behavior benefit the community of RpNation?
   
   
2. What are some of the potential mental and emotional consequences this behavior forces those who are on the receiving end to endure?
   
   ----
   
   
3. Do you have an alternative solution or suggestion that would benefit those who are being excluded?
   
   
4. How should the RpNation Staff look at this issue moving forward? (Because this is clearly an issue which is adversely affecting our user base)

If you honestly have an answer for #3 and #4 which could benefit the site and community, kindly send me a PM with your suggestions so I can bring it up to the rest of the RpN Staff. We want this site to be as safe and welcoming to everyone on both sides of this issue as possible.


Thoughts

The last time I allowed someone much younger than me into my life, I learned around 80-85% of everything you can read about in the "Role-Player's Guide" tutorial series I've shared with the community on this website.

The last time I allowed someone much older than me into my life, I earned a lifelong friend and mentor in music which is a passion of mine.

Remember that this is RpNation. It's a place for community, interaction, involvement, unity, and fun. It's a place for people of all age groups, gender identities, ethnic and racial backgrounds, social standings, etc., to come and forget the ugliness of the world outside the web and just relax and have a good time together with a hobby and passion we all share.

This talk of age preferences is not harmless. When you talk too strongly about "I won't RP with this group, period!" that's basically an open letter of hostility and contempt for anyone in that group. You might not have intended it that way. But the saying goes "if it can be misinterpreted, it will be." And seeing those words can be mentally and emotionally detrimental to those in that group who read your posts, which is not what this site is about.

Words are powerful. They can be harmful. And if used the wrong way they can even be dangerous.

In an online environment like this the text we type onto the screen is all we have to communicate.

Use your words responsibly, please.

Thank you,

- GojiBean

 

[Inno]

I had initially put together a rather massive rant on this subject. But in the end I felt it would have been a wasted effort to leave it as it was.

Instead, I'll leave only a few questions and some personal thoughts for everyone to consider.


Questions

(Kindly think about the first two on your own, and try to actually answer #3 and #4)

1. How does exclusionary behavior benefit the community of RpNation?
   
   
2. What are some of the potential mental and emotional consequences this behavior forces those who are on the receiving end to endure?
   
   ----
   
   
3. Do you have an alternative solution or suggestion that would benefit those who are being excluded?
   
   
4. How should the RpNation Staff look at this issue moving forward? (Because this is clearly an issue which is adversely affecting our user base)

If you honestly have an answer for #3 and #4 which could benefit the site and community, kindly send me a PM with your suggestions so I can bring it up to the rest of the RpN Staff. We want this site to be as safe and welcoming to everyone on both sides of this issue as possible.


Thoughts

The last time I allowed someone much younger than me into my life, I learned around 80-85% of everything you can read about in the "Role-Player's Guide" tutorial series I've shared with the community on this website.

The last time I allowed someone much older than me into my life, I earned a lifelong friend and mentor in music which is a passion of mine.

Remember that this is RpNation. It's a place for community, interaction, involvement, unity, and fun. It's a place for people of all age groups, gender identities, ethnic and racial backgrounds, social standings, etc., to come and forget the ugliness of the world outside the web and just relax and have a good time together with a hobby and passion we all share.

This talk of age preferences is not harmless. When you talk too strongly about "I won't RP with this group, period!" that's basically an open letter of hostility and contempt for anyone in that group. You might not have intended it that way. But the saying goes "if it can be misinterpreted, it will be." And seeing those words can be mentally and emotionally detrimental to those in that group who read your posts, which is not what this site is about.

Words are powerful. They can be harmful. And if used the wrong way they can even be dangerous.

In an online environment like this the text we type onto the screen is all we have to communicate.

Use your words responsibly, please.

Thank you,

- GojiBean

Will definitely send a PM.

 

[Jannah]

All I can say in response to Goji's post is that users have a right to choose who they RP with and if that excludes other users based on age then that's their right. To say that choosing partners based on age isn't allowed because it might hurt feelings would then be detrimental to those who have certain comfort zones.

 

[Inno]

What I got from the message is my comfort doesn't matter. If I choose to not write with a minor, I am in some way part of this problem within the community. That's not fair or right at all. If anything that message does the exact opposite of what it seemed to intend to.

 

[Jannah]

What I got from the message is my comfort doesn't matter. If I choose to not write with a minor, I am in some way part of this problem within the community. That's not fair or right at all. If anything that message does the exact opposite of what it seemed to intend to.

Considering I share your concerns here if this community goes in that direction I may have no choice but to find a different community. I'm old enough to be a parent to a large chunk of the members on here so I'm definitely not writing with them.

 

[Luscinioide]

i think a big concern for a lot of people would be the precedent something like that would set. if age boundaries are no longer permitted, what's next? where does the line get drawn as far as "comfort boundaries that are ok/not ok" go? who gets to decide whose comfort - or feelings, for that matter - are more important?

 

[A Sparkling Zombie]

I feel like Goji's message was more about encouraging open-mindedness, being mindful of how one expresses their opinion on the matter, and attempting to receive solutions to an obvious problem for a demographic, not taking a hard stance on one side or the other.

I've submitted my ideas on what I think could help minors while still being fair to the adult-only population. I hope others think on it and do the same.

 

[Inno]

I feel like Goji's message was more about encouraging open-mindedness, being mindful of how one expresses their opinion on the matter, and attempting to receive solutions to an obvious problem for a demographic, not taking a hard stance on one side or the other.

I've submitted my ideas on what I think could help minors while still being fair to the adult-only population. I hope others think on it and do the same.

I got the opposite. Might not have been the intent but I felt a clear side was taken. It did not feel like a message of encouragement toward having an open mind and more like it doesn't matter whether someone is comfortable or not. Everyone matters in this situation, not just the ones posting up threads every other day about people having preferences for the 18+ crowd of partners.

 

[Luscinioide]

solution: button to mark lfrp ad as 18+. boom. kids can't see it, kids can't complain about it. kids are happy because they're blissfully unaware of the ads they cannot participate in. adults are happy because they feel more reassured. they also have the option to leave it open to everyone.

 

[Jannah]

solution: button to mark lfrp ad as 18+. boom. kids can't see it, kids can't complain about it. kids are happy because they're blissfully unaware of the ads they cannot participate in. adults are happy because they feel more reassured. they also have the option to leave it open to everyone.

Yea, I suggested a 18+ tag awhile ago. However, I did note valid concerns that some (namely those who don't read the rules) might mistake it as an invitation to write smut.

 

[Luscinioide]

Yea, I suggested a 18+ tag awhile ago. However, I did note valid concerns that some (namely those who don't read the rules) might mistake it as an invitation to write smut.

could phrase it as "people in my age group"? that's how other places do it. avoids the connotation of 18+ and applies both ways (17 and under or 18 and above)

 

[Syntra]

I had initially put together a rather massive rant on this subject. But in the end I felt it would have been a wasted effort to leave it as it was.

Instead, I'll leave only a few questions and some personal thoughts for everyone to consider.


Questions

(Kindly think about the first two on your own, and try to actually answer #3 and #4)

1. How does exclusionary behavior benefit the community of RpNation?
   
   
2. What are some of the potential mental and emotional consequences this behavior forces those who are on the receiving end to endure?
   
   ----
   
   
3. Do you have an alternative solution or suggestion that would benefit those who are being excluded?
   
   
4. How should the RpNation Staff look at this issue moving forward? (Because this is clearly an issue which is adversely affecting our user base)

If you honestly have an answer for #3 and #4 which could benefit the site and community, kindly send me a PM with your suggestions so I can bring it up to the rest of the RpN Staff. We want this site to be as safe and welcoming to everyone on both sides of this issue as possible.


Thoughts

The last time I allowed someone much younger than me into my life, I learned around 80-85% of everything you can read about in the "Role-Player's Guide" tutorial series I've shared with the community on this website.

The last time I allowed someone much older than me into my life, I earned a lifelong friend and mentor in music which is a passion of mine.

Remember that this is RpNation. It's a place for community, interaction, involvement, unity, and fun. It's a place for people of all age groups, gender identities, ethnic and racial backgrounds, social standings, etc., to come and forget the ugliness of the world outside the web and just relax and have a good time together with a hobby and passion we all share.

This talk of age preferences is not harmless. When you talk too strongly about "I won't RP with this group, period!" that's basically an open letter of hostility and contempt for anyone in that group. You might not have intended it that way. But the saying goes "if it can be misinterpreted, it will be." And seeing those words can be mentally and emotionally detrimental to those in that group who read your posts, which is not what this site is about.

Words are powerful. They can be harmful. And if used the wrong way they can even be dangerous.

In an online environment like this the text we type onto the screen is all we have to communicate.

Use your words responsibly, please.

Thank you,

- GojiBean

I don't know, I get that you mean well, but this strikes me as rather unfortunate. What about the minors that don't want to roleplay with adults? Is their behavior also problematic? I have seen a lot of those in the 1x1 request section, and while they aren't as loud about it - of course they aren't, they have nothing to complain about - I think there may be more of those who feel that way, based on my experiences. Dictating who you should or shouldn't roleplay with in general feels like a slippery slope. What standards are okay, and what standards aren't? All that besides, I don't even think this is something you as staff can do anything about. The adults who don't want to roleplay with minors, and vice versa, just won't do it; all they will do is find a different pretext to reject their potential partners. Suddenly, they will be 'busy' or 'lose inspiration'. The only result I foresee is people lying in order to avoid repercussions.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

I had initially put together a rather massive rant on this subject. But in the end I felt it would have been a wasted effort to leave it as it was.

Instead, I'll leave only a few questions and some personal thoughts for everyone to consider.


Questions

(Kindly think about the first two on your own, and try to actually answer #3 and #4)

1. How does exclusionary behavior benefit the community of RpNation?
   
   
2. What are some of the potential mental and emotional consequences this behavior forces those who are on the receiving end to endure?
   
   ----
   
   
3. Do you have an alternative solution or suggestion that would benefit those who are being excluded?
   
   
4. How should the RpNation Staff look at this issue moving forward? (Because this is clearly an issue which is adversely affecting our user base)

If you honestly have an answer for #3 and #4 which could benefit the site and community, kindly send me a PM with your suggestions so I can bring it up to the rest of the RpN Staff. We want this site to be as safe and welcoming to everyone on both sides of this issue as possible.


Thoughts

The last time I allowed someone much younger than me into my life, I learned around 80-85% of everything you can read about in the "Role-Player's Guide" tutorial series I've shared with the community on this website.

The last time I allowed someone much older than me into my life, I earned a lifelong friend and mentor in music which is a passion of mine.

Remember that this is RpNation. It's a place for community, interaction, involvement, unity, and fun. It's a place for people of all age groups, gender identities, ethnic and racial backgrounds, social standings, etc., to come and forget the ugliness of the world outside the web and just relax and have a good time together with a hobby and passion we all share.

This talk of age preferences is not harmless. When you talk too strongly about "I won't RP with this group, period!" that's basically an open letter of hostility and contempt for anyone in that group. You might not have intended it that way. But the saying goes "if it can be misinterpreted, it will be." And seeing those words can be mentally and emotionally detrimental to those in that group who read your posts, which is not what this site is about.

Words are powerful. They can be harmful. And if used the wrong way they can even be dangerous.

In an online environment like this the text we type onto the screen is all we have to communicate.

Use your words responsibly, please.

Thank you,

- GojiBean

All I can say in response to Goji's post is that users have a right to choose who they RP with and if that excludes other users based on age then that's their right. To say that choosing partners based on age isn't allowed because it might hurt feelings would then be detrimental to those who have certain comfort zones.

What I got from the message is my comfort doesn't matter. If I choose to not write with a minor, I am in some way part of this problem within the community. That's not fair or right at all. If anything that message does the exact opposite of what it seemed to intend to.

I feel like Goji's message was more about encouraging open-mindedness, being mindful of how one expresses their opinion on the matter, and attempting to receive solutions to an obvious problem for a demographic, not taking a hard stance on one side or the other.

I've submitted my ideas on what I think could help minors while still being fair to the adult-only population. I hope others think on it and do the same.

I don't know, I get that you mean well, but this strikes me as rather unfortunate. What about the minors that don't want to roleplay with adults? Is their behavior also problematic? I have seen a lot of those in the 1x1 request section, and while they aren't as loud about it - of course they aren't, they have nothing to complain about - I think there may be more of those who feel that way, based on my experiences. Dictating who you should or shouldn't roleplay with in general feels like a slippery slope. What standards are okay, and what standards aren't? All that besides, I don't even think this is something you as staff can do anything about. The adults who don't want to roleplay with minors, and vice versa, just won't do it; all they will do is find a different pretext to reject their potential partners. Suddenly, they will be 'busy' or 'lose inspiration'. The only result I foresee is people lying in order to avoid repercussions.

I don't believe that Goji is advocating for anyone to break out of their comfort zone. Obviously, if peeps don't want to RP with someone for X reason (like age), that's okay. I think the real message that Goji is trying to express and one that I at-least agree with is that, it's about how you handle it and go about it. Open-mindedness or at-least politeness can go a long way.

One big example that comes up regularly in reports when we try to mediate between users such as when someone wants zero LGBT themes in their RP, which is fine. When you are a bigot and harasser about it, it is not fine. I've seen the reverse happen, where LGBT users have gone out of their way to harass non LGBT RPers. I'm gay myself, so in my ultimate fantasy world, everyone would just be happy in their spaces and not be hostile to each other, but I think that's more of a humane response then a gay thing as the goal of RpN is providing a distraction from real life and it's issues even if it's for a tiny bit in the day.

Obviously, the community guidelines and the Roleplay Rights document are always in effect, and they clearly state that users have the right to not RP with who they want and reject RP partners as long as it doesn't turn into harassment on either side.

Remember, you can always set someone on ignore, report them to staff and overall just trust on us to make sure everything is handled and that the site is enjoyable to everyone on the site !

If anyone ever wants to talk, my PMs are always open and so is the ticket system.

 

[Jannah]

I don't believe that Goji is advocating for anyone to break out of their comfort zone. Obviously, if peeps don't want to RP with someone for X reason (like age), that's okay. I think the real message that Goji is trying to express and one that I at-least agree with is that, it's about how you handle it and go about it. Open-mindedness or at-least politeness can go a long way.

One big example that comes up regularly in reports when we try to mediate between users such as when someone wants zero LGBT themes in their RP, which is fine. When you are a bigot and harasser about it, it is not fine. I've seen the reverse happen, where LGBT users have gone out of their way to harass non LGBT RPers. I'm gay myself, so in my ultimate fantasy world, everyone would just be happy in their spaces and not be hostile to each other, but I think that's more of a humane response then a gay thing as the goal of RpN is providing a distraction from real life and it's issues even if it's for a tiny bit in the day.

Obviously, the community guidelines and the Roleplay Rights document are always in effect, and they clearly state that users have the right to not RP with who they want and reject RP partners as long as it doesn't turn into harassment on either side.

Remember, you can always set someone on ignore, report them to staff and overall just trust on us to make sure everything is handled and that the site is enjoyable to everyone on the site !

If anyone ever wants to talk, my PMs are always open and so is the ticket system.

Thank you for this. Members should be able to RP what they want with who they want as long as it doesn't break the rules. I guess the wording of the initial post wasn't super clear to a lot of people.

 

[Grosso Nerdo]

Have age boundaries if you want but you must always remember one thing if you do.

It takes only a very low effort to lie about that stuff and is utterly unverifiable.

Like for real, this is the internet. This type of boundary is merely suggestion.
You might think you can distinguish the age of someone by how they write, but that simply isn't the case, some teenagers are very litterate and some adults have a 200 word vocabulary.
And that's not even getting into the subject of those for which english isn't their first language.

You who wants 18+ only, you might be rping with children right now. You can't be sure. And you have no ways of verifying this without forcing someone to reveal identifying information.

This also goes for the other way around, although adults pretending to be minors is quite a bit more immoral.

I never ask or seek identifying information on the internet because it's either pointless or creepy.
I share very little identifying information on the internet because it's either pointless or dangerous.

Do not engage in a roleplay if you are not confortable with your potential partner. Stop a roleplay if you are not confortable.

When I play TTRPGs using voicechat and stuff like Roll20 or Foundryvtt, there Im able to effectively prevent minors from joining, and sometimes I do it (for campaigns) and sometimes I dont (for one shots)

But here ? There is never any certainty.

EDIT : TLDR: Keep your preferences, be polite, be nice, it's not that hard.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

Thank you for this. Members should be able to RP what they want with who they want as long as it doesn't break the rules. I guess the wording of the initial post wasn't super clear to a lot of people.

Have age boundaries if you want but you must always remember one thing if you do.

It takes only a very low effort to lie about that stuff and is utterly unverifiable.

Like for real, this is the internet. This type of boundary is merely suggestion.
You might think you can distinguish the age of someone by how they write, but that simply isn't the case, some teenagers are very litterate and some adults have a 200 word vocabulary.
And that's not even getting into the subject of those for which english isn't their first language.

You who wants 18+ only, you might be rping with children right now. You can't be sure. And you have no ways of verifying this without forcing someone to reveal identifying information.

This also goes for the other way around, although adults pretending to be minors is quite a bit more immoral.

I never ask or seek identifying information on the internet because it's either pointless or creepy.
I share very little identifying information on the internet because it's either pointless or dangerous.

Do not engage in a roleplay if you are not confortable with your potential partner. Stop a roleplay if you are not confortable.

When I play TTRPGs using voicechat and stuff like Roll20 or Foundryvtt, there Im able to effectively prevent minors from joining, and sometimes I do it (for campaigns) and sometimes I dont (for one shots)

But here ? There is never any certainty.

EDIT : TLDR: Keep your preferences, be polite, be nice, it's not that hard.

This, all of this.

We have no serious way of age gating or any kind of gating. It is assumed when you make an account on the site that you meet our minimum age requirements, and that's about it. We could make the site be 18+ or 21+ only, and we still wouldn't be able to verify everyone without asking for IDs upfront.

Tags are now an open system and users could in theory do 18+, the official staff stance is "discouraged" but not disallowed. Not because we don't want you to not RP with only adults if that's something you want to do, but because there has to be a better way to do it, we just haven't gotten there yet. From feedback, we've received 18+ tags just seem like you are inviting for smut.

Do remember that RpN allows adult topics like Extreme Violence, Drugs, dark topics (slavery, domestic violence, etc.), we just don't allow Erotic Content because we don't want to deal with that kind of content, particularly in the ever-changing legal hellscape that is the USA where I'm from, and the site is based in.

I have thought about and brought up a rating system to staff over the years, and maybe we can do something like that with the tag system.

Thought Process:

• Regardless of the tags you can use (I think 20 is the limit right now?) it might require 1-3 of them that are special like :violence1: would indicate that Violence is expected and certain designated tags will change colors if it's one of the special ones. So inputting :violence1: or :violence low: would look like "Low Violence" and maybe orange as an example vs all the other uncolored tags in a Roleplay's tag list.

There are other, many technical ways to attempt to do a rating system and something definitely to consider. I don't think we will ever truly advocate for any exclusionary tags that are "Official" like no LGBT or no minors, etc. Those kinds of requests can be handled at the top or any part of your thread. Like Grosso Nerdo said: Keep your preferences, be polite, be nice, it's not that hard. We don't need to segregate the user base via technical functions. Just politely state your preferences and move on. Remember, anyone who doesn't respect your request to not RP with them, as long as it was polite, is technically breaking our rules.

 

[nerdy tangents]

In addition, the issue seems to boil down to “I am worried that certain people can’t distinguish reality from fiction as it pertains to sexual content.” Or "I don't have things in common with people over a decade younger than me."

For the first concern, that doesn't magically go away when you are eighteen. Sad to say it folks but people who want to use this as a dating site don't magically stop because you are "legal" in the US. Nor do you magically grow communication skills overnight to deal with these situations effectively.

Which is one of the big problems with 18+ in general. Not only does it encourage the very behavior you're trying to prevent it also places unrealistic expectations on some magical number = automatic maturity.

Now for the second concern, 18+ is even more useless. I am 30+ years old. I have no more in common with an 18 or 19-year-old than I do with a 16 or 17-year-old.

So if I were the type to care about age a much better way to go about things (for both instances actually) would be age ranges.

Ex. "I am looking for a partner within three years of my age or between 30-38. " or whatever your particular age range is.

That way you're getting what you actually want "someone I can be comfortable talking to and who shares my life experiences." Without this bother over whether or not they can vote or see an R-rated movie. (In the US)

 

[nerdy tangents]

The Dark Wizard re:colored tags would it be possible to link them to numbers? So like if someone wants to do idk “age range:20x30” or whatever that would make the tag change color?

I dunno if there are fandoms or the like which already use numbers so that might not be doable without accidentally triggering random tags as well.

Or maybe add age range to our Roleplay Availability thing. Under like “select box for group or 1x1” you can select an age range? Like 13-18, 18-21, 21-30, 30+ or whatever.

 

[A Sparkling Zombie]

I like Nerdy's idea. Some of the complaints from minors have been that some GMs aren't clear about age restrictions until someone joins the Discord server or until their age becomes clear and they get booted from the game. While maybe not the behavior RPN wants to encourage, having UI to support the need to restrict ages can at least encourage people to be upfront about it and help people find appropriate games for their age.

 

[ManicMuse]

For reference, I am old enough that I started using the internet when it was dial-up. I also started hitting the chatrooms young and got into all sorts of trouble when I was younger. I RPed in many crazy sites, claimed various ages, and whatnot.

Years later, I returned to RP as a parent of a child with autism, a grandmother, a business owner, a homeschool teacher through a charter school, and a wife. I want to think I have matured a bit over the years. I still have some of my old work. It makes me shake my head. I can read the lack of maturity in my words. The best part? Pulling these old pieces and sharing them with my friends. Many of which are friends I made over the years online. Some younger, some older. I am grateful to them for putting up with my awkward bad posts over the years. The friends I have kept did not ever cross the boundaries or were inappropriate in or out of RP. Many of my friends now have families of their own, some do not. I mailed one of them about 20 pounds of homemade soup a couple of months back when they caught covid. They don't have many in-person friends but a group of us online game a lot. That person was really touched to have someone care enough about their well-being to send something.

Personally, I will RP with anyone of any age. I will enforce my boundaries. I will draw my line on the age-appropriate content with that person. There is no foolproof way to prevent people from lying online or in person. The best thing I feel I can do is to be kind to the new generation of RPers and gamers. Treat them as I hope my kids will be treated. Create a safe space to write stories together and work to keep content appropriate for whatever they say their age is. I play DnD, board games, and magic the gathering with people in person. I would not turn a kid away from the table because of their age but I will turn people away or ask them to leave because of their attitude. I hold no judgment against others for not wanting to play with younger or older people.

For me, I want to be a safe haven and create a safe place for healthy outlets and hobbies.

 

[Celestial Water]

I’m sorry if I missed someone saying this already? But my suggestion is a RP ad board for minors, adults and mixed age groups (people who don’t care and just want to write). And yes, people can lie about their age. Unfortunately, I had to as I started RPing in elementary school and some sites were 18+ and I simply lied and avoided the group RP chat. And just RP’d and went about my merry way.

 

[nerdy tangents]

Celestial Water I think perhaps having people be able to search through content somehow might help more. Because even most people who claim to be against writing with minors are only specifically against writing specific content with minors.

So perhaps as Wizard indicated some universal way to tick off what content your okay with and what you aren’t.

I also would benefit people beyond the age debate. Cuz I’m not super into gore or sexual violence either. I could care less how old someone is but I will block immediately if they seem down with adult x child relationships.

 

[Celestial Water]

nerdy tangents From the majority of Ads Im seeing minors are being excluded, period.

And to your last response all this stuff is obvious though and stated in the rules. So I’m not understanding where the confusion is coming from with other people? They’re just not reading the rules or don’t care to. Just report them. No matter what site you go to there are going to be a creep or two. There’s no stopping that. So its up to people to report that.

 

[welian]

I'd rather not see RPN turn into the kind of site that emphasizes ages, I really appreciate that it's a general-audience kind of place - that's one of the big reasons I found myself drawn here after leaving Gaia Online, after all. I'm concerned that if we start tracking/separating users based on age, that we're going to resemble a different RP site, and, well... there's a reason I'm here and not there.

 

[Celestial Water]

It’s not tracking unless you want to be tracked? But this same issue keeps being brought up. So it seems like its an issue that needs some sort of solution.