Advice/Help Questions on: Doubling, Game Mechanics & Discord

[jones573]

I have a couple of questions that I was hoping to get input on, mostly about some roleplay terms/style!

For context, I tend to rp in the ‘collaborative storytelling’ style, in which multiple people take turns, writing for their characters and often side characters/locations/sub-plots as needed. I think of the ‘ooc chat’ as a place to discuss whatever we’d like about our live or interests or what-have, but also to plan the direction of the story and decide how we’d like situations to play out (at least in a rough sense) for maximum plotting potential.

‘Doubling’- This is a term I’ve usually only ever seen in reference to 1x1’s, and I assumed it just meant ‘writing for more than one character in the story’, but I’ve seen it used in some contexts where that assumption doesn’t really make sense? I haven’t done a lot of 1x1’s, but I always wrote responses for multiple characters regardless- I had a few ‘main’ characters, but there’s also their potential friends, family, and other side characters that drift through from time to time. Are people really that unwilling to create multiple characters, or am I just misunderstanding the term?

Game Mechanics- On some interest checks, I’ve seen people mention that they have certain mechanics in mind for the roleplay, and I guess I’m curious as to how that differs from the RP’s listed under the ‘Dice’ category? (I’ve played D&D so I’m familiar with the general concept of characters having measurable skills/attributes, a limited number of items they can carry and specific combat moves.... I just tend not to use them when I write!)

I guess what I really want to know is ‘What’s the polite way to ask if there will be game mechanics, or how in depth they are?’ I can understand the appeal of these types of things- especially in there’s going to be a lot on combat or conflict- but like I mentioned above, I prefer to determine crucial outcomes on ooc in favor of what will move the plot and character development forward.

But I know starting an RP is a lot of work, especially one with those sorts of things to keep track of, so I don’t want to be rude- And I feel like telling people ‘Hey, I’m interested but only if I can do what I want’ is pretty rude!

(I feel like even that makes me sound like a terrible person to RP with! To clarify, I’m totally down with rules and abiding by the world-building, and my characters losing fights and getting stabbed and all that good stuff, but I’m just more interested in a ‘host’ or guide to a plot/setting than a GM, if that makes sense?)

Discord- What’s the appeal? I see a lot of interest checks that end with ‘this will be hosted on Discord’ or at the very least, that the ooc will be on Discord. (I’m assuming discord threads cannot be browsed, and that’s why the interest check is not put there initially?) But generally speaking I’ve found RPN to be a WAY better platform than some of the other places I’ve rp’d on (tbh, that’s not saying much….) so I’m curious what Discord offers that people find preferable, and why some chose to opt out instead.




So that’s basically what I’m trying to get sorted in my head before I start more actively trying to join or try to start my own RP- Thanks for any and all input!

 

[Idea]

‘Doubling’- This is a term I’ve usually only ever seen in reference to 1x1’s, and I assumed it just meant ‘writing for more than one character in the story’, but I’ve seen it used in some contexts where that assumption doesn’t really make sense? I haven’t done a lot of 1x1’s, but I always wrote responses for multiple characters regardless- I had a few ‘main’ characters, but there’s also their potential friends, family, and other side characters that drift through from time to time. Are people really that unwilling to create multiple characters, or am I just misunderstanding the term?

Doubling is a term typically used to refer to the creation of a mirror pairing to an innitial pairing. Some common uses for this are:

*OC X Cannon pairings, where "doubling" refers to players each taking one OC and one cannon character and playing them with the other person's OC or cannon character (sometimes the cannon character will be a specifically pre-chosen one)

*MxF pairings, where doubling means that each player will play one male and one female and pair them with the other person's

*Other pairings with explicit duality like "bully/bullied", "student/teacher" etc... where doubling means each player will take both of the roles.

The important thing to understand about doubling is that unlike just adding to the cast via multiple characters, each character in the doubling is to be treated with the same narrative and personal importance and dedication. All four characters resulting are main characters.

Game Mechanics- On some interest checks, I’ve seen people mention that they have certain mechanics in mind for the roleplay, and I guess I’m curious as to how that differs from the RP’s listed under the ‘Dice’ category? (I’ve played D&D so I’m familiar with the general concept of characters having measurable skills/attributes, a limited number of items they can carry and specific combat moves.... I just tend not to use them when I write!)

I guess what I really want to know is ‘What’s the polite way to ask if there will be game mechanics, or how in depth they are?’ I can understand the appeal of these types of things- especially in there’s going to be a lot on combat or conflict- but like I mentioned above, I prefer to determine crucial outcomes on ooc in favor of what will move the plot and character development forward.

But I know starting an RP is a lot of work, especially one with those sorts of things to keep track of, so I don’t want to be rude- And I feel like telling people ‘Hey, I’m interested but only if I can do what I want’ is pretty rude!

(I feel like even that makes me sound like a terrible person to RP with! To clarify, I’m totally down with rules and abiding by the world-building, and my characters losing fights and getting stabbed and all that good stuff, but I’m just more interested in a ‘host’ or guide to a plot/setting than a GM, if that makes sense?)

D&D-type mechanics are not the only types of mechanics that a GM can employ. In fact, as a GM I often employ mechanics in my roleplays seeing as to how I am more apt to working with struture and organization. For purposes of this answer, I will present three categories of mechanic, though there may be more and these names are by no means official or anything.

1. Dice Mechanics: Dice mechanics are what you have in D&D's dice rolls and the dice section in general. These mechanics rely on an external factor, namely dice, whose chance affects the outcome of roleplay actions or other decisions. These mechanics are typically more visibly mechanical fit into RPs with a more game-like OOC aesthetic than necessarily a pure narrative one. Dice's chance factor comes with the advantage of a sense of fairness and an excitement for an uncertain future- however, this very uncertainty makes an unppealing mechanic for those who seek a more managed approach to their story (who feel that their work could get blow to smithereens by a roll of the dice) and those who seek a more casual/free approach (who feel restricted by the dice's results).

2.In-universe Mechanics: Arguably the most common kind of mechanic, these mechanics originate from the world where the roleplay takes in itself, wherea it be by it's own rules or be the translation of factors of that world into a mechanic. Stats are a common example of this, as while they aren't recognized directly in universe a lot of the time, they can have an impact on your failure or success and how the character's are perceived or organize themselves in universe. A world's magic system can be considered a mechanic of this type as well, if it's a hard magic system (a magic system defined by rigid rules and precise, well-defined limits and methods of operation). In-universe mechanics are considerably more organic and less of a dictatorship of dice, often acting more like rigid guidelines than anything and being adjusted to what's reasonable rather than chance. However, they loose the emotional thrill granted by the dice's uncertainty and more game-like approach.
One of the major type of roleplay employing this type of mechanic in it's fullest is the "VR" genre or "game" genre, which often devotes a good chunk of narrative space to characters inside a game or playing a game. The game's mechanics are in-universe mechanics for a roleplay.

3.Structural Mechanics: Structural mechanics are rules imposed that create mechanics for the RP at an OOC level, with only indirect effect on the IC. Artificially restricting what characters can be made, posting requirements, organizing player groups etc... These are a type of mechanics I often employ with varying degrees of success. With the "secret system" for instance, players could PM me part of their CS instead of putting it in the sheet itself, allowing me as a GM to have access to the information while it remained hidden from other players. I've also attempted OOC voting areas for major roleplay decisions, etc...


Mechanics are elements that affect roleplayer action and/or prompt certain effects or events outside of the bounderies of the raw forming of the narrative. As such, only a fraction of them rely on dice or any other form of chance. Dice RPs are for those who do want to employ dice and chance.

As for whether you can ask and how... Well, you just ask. It's only rude to ask if you write it as if you're angry or as if you're demanding the explanation, as if you're entitled to something. There's little advise I can give in this regard other than common sense as to whether something being typed is polite. I guess maybe I'd suggest figuring out what it is you want and asking specifically about those mechanics that might hinder that, or just asking about more a GM's stance on certain requirements from a neutral ground. (examples: What are the post requirements for this RP? Are there any restrictions I should know of, in terms of what characters can be created? How does the magic work in tis world?)

Discord- What’s the appeal? I see a lot of interest checks that end with ‘this will be hosted on Discord’ or at the very least, that the ooc will be on Discord. (I’m assuming discord threads cannot be browsed, and that’s why the interest check is not put there initially?) But generally speaking I’ve found RPN to be a WAY better platform than some of the other places I’ve rp’d on (tbh, that’s not saying much….) so I’m curious what Discord offers that people find preferable, and why some chose to opt out instead.

Discord is a very convenient chat platform which can easily and discretely permit a fast-moving conversation between people. This makes it very useful for real time OOC discussion to be more organic and go around in circles less as a result, as players can discuss individual points in real time and one by one, rather than sending messages and standing around waiting without even knowing if the other person is actually still there. For this reason, I and many others tend to have a preference for OOC in discord.

However, your question was about IC in discord, which has a very similar reason to be. Many roleplayers in RPN, I dare say the majority, aren't actually big on planning or intensely detailed posts, but prefer a more dynamic and organic approach. They don't feel as inspired or capable when working with larger posts, thus they prefer shorter ones that have better flow and speed. This, as previously mentioned, is something that discord provides better than a forum, seeing as how this form of roleplay easily adjusts to chat RPing.

Personally, I am a planner by nature and a detailed roleplayer who needs structure and atmosphere. Plus, I like being able to go back on a certain RP and read what was written before, so I am not a fan of roleplaying in discord.



In any case, I hope you found this read helpful or at least enjoyable. I wish you the best of luck and happy RPing!
Let me know if you have any more questions or anything else you may need help with

 

[yanastyboi]

Doubling is a new term for me, cropped up a few years ago and I was the same as you "what does that mean?" In my experience I've seen it mean two things. Doubling as in literally doubling up characters so if I play a male to your female, you play a male to my female. Doubling as in multiple characters (which I find is a rarer definition). So usually it means playing a second couple in the RP so each person gets a pairing preference met.

I am with you though, I've always played multiple characters. A main cast. Then a handful of secondary characters that drift in and out of the story as needed, are a littler more established. Then NPC style characters that appear as needed and then are gone. I think if you're an older RPer like myself (and maybe you too -- I dunno if you're as old as me) you're use to just playing characters en-mass as needed, and doubling is really a new sort of terminology that has cropped up in the community.

Game Mechanics, honestly I think it's kind of a new thing. I've only seen this crop us in the last year or so. I feel like it's due to a combination of D&D becoming so popular that people are mixing D&D and other table top style elements with the more typical forum paragraph roleplay style. I was asked to literally GM a paragraph RP for a pair of people, they legit came to me and told me "you be the DM, we are the player, okay?" and I was like "how is this anything close to what I asked for in my search thread WTF?"

I AM SO OFF TOPIC, but um, I would just straight up ask them. Just like you said "hey what are your mechanics, can you explain?" because it is honestly a huge mixed bag of surprises.

Discord now this is one I can vouch for. I personally use Discord because it took the place of Skype in the community. So if you've never been a roleplayer who uses Instant Messengers I can see how you don't see the appeal. It's most privacy, customization and utility of Discord verses other IMs out there. Utility such as easy access on your phone it has a very nice, smooth running app. that pings your phone; ability to seperate scenes by channels, organize profiles and information per different channels and categories. Plus the easy of communication OOC because its an instant messenger you can chat very easily and quickly it cuts out the wait time of threads.

 

[yanastyboi]

However, your question was about IC in discord, which has a very similar reason to be. Many roleplayers in RPN, I dare say the majority, aren't actually big on planning or intensely detailed posts, but prefer a more dynamic and organic approach. They don't feel as inspired or capable when working with larger posts, thus they prefer shorter ones that have better flow and speed. This, as previously mentioned, is something that discord provides better than a forum, seeing as how this form of roleplay easily adjusts to chat RPing.

Personally, I am a planner by nature and a detailed roleplayer who needs structure and atmosphere. Plus, I like being able to go back on a certain RP and read what was written before, so I am not a fan of roleplaying in discord.

Just quoting to say that, and not trying to change your mind specifically Idea, but it is very easy to do detailed RPing on discord as well and read back old posts. Like Idea said Discord allows for "more dynamic and organic approach" to plotting, instant conversation means people can share an idea and get instant feedback.

I like using Discord for OOC even if my RPs IC is in a thread. I like the instant and easy conversation an IM provides and Discord is the new IM sweeping most communities by storm. It is a platform designed specifically for gaming (that is why it was made) so it caters mostly to the idea that gaming communities are using this platform in place of Ventrilo, Mumble, Teamspeak and such. Also it's free with a vast and unparalleled customization that no other IM out there provides, which is HUGE both in gaming and in this case RPing. It really does do things other IMs simply can't!

 

[Idea]

Just quoting to say that, and not trying to change your mind specifically Idea, but it is very easy to do detailed RPing on discord as well and read back old posts. Like Idea said Discord allows for "more dynamic and organic approach" to plotting, instant conversation means people can share an idea and get instant feedback.

I'm afraid I have to disagree there. First though I want to aknowledge that it's quite likely that our standards for "detailed" are probably rather different. My main basis for saying that is that I often look at "detailed" searches only to find they top at about half of my average... Also, this:

I feel if you can squidge out a single paragraph you'd be able to strike a balance with most any literate RPer.

Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying this or that way are objectively better. I have my thoughts on that matter, but this isn't the discussion for that. I am simply stating that the kind of detailed roleplay I want to do is very impratical to do in discord or any other kind of chat platform. There are three main causes for this:
*Discord and other chatting platforms often feature word limits
*The layout and layout possibilities of discord and other such platforms are too continuous which reduces the comfort and readability of text the more there is of it
*Unlike the more visibly separate organization of forum posts, and the self-contained boxes that make the text look cleaner even if long, in discord the border is smaller and the background is mostly uniform, making long text appear more like a boring wall of text and a bigger slog to read through than in a forum.

As for reading back, while in the short term it is true that one can do so in discord as well, there are two problems. One is that unless you're making a separate channel for it, then the OOC and IC will be in the same conversation, making the reading flow worse. Second, discord is considerably more impratical to go back and read in the long term and worse even to go search for a specific post.


I do realize you weren't trying to change my mind, but I thought I at least ought to present the reasons behind my statements if you were going to disagree, so that others can look at make up their own minds regarding advantages and disadvantages of the platform.

 

[yanastyboi]

As for reading back, while in the short term it is true that one can do so in discord as well, there are two problems. One is that unless you're making a separate channel for it, then the OOC and IC will be in the same conversation, making the reading flow worse. Second, discord is considerably more impratical to go back and read in the long term and worse even to go search for a specific post.

Well yeah a player would have to be a complete idiot not to seperate OOC from IC in Discord. It's also kind of dumb not to untilize the category and channel function of Discord to organize an RP and make it easier to locate specific content from specific point in the plot.

I myself have been RPing group and one on ones using some form of separation for the narrative (thread or otherwise) for years. I've called them anything from scenes, missions, chapters to arcs whatever the name I've divided my RPs to make for cohesive narrative, visuals and so on. Discord allows this very easily, actually more easily than a thread (unless I were to make multiple threads which RPN no longer allows the way they tried a few years ago --- or the way another site I am allows).

So I guess it highly depends on how one organize their information. If one does a more classic "ooc" "ic" "lore" in each thread then forums are perfect. If one RPs scene by scene (chapter by chapter / mission by mission) and separate each into it's own channel on discord and further separate those into categories (that can minimize to reduce clutter) it is then a highly organized, easy to manage, easy to navigate server. As well as easy to find posts, as a person would know which scene/mission/chapter in what category a thing happened in.

Now I agree one can't visually add any kind of fancy, flashy coding like RPN allows. But one can set their discord to three appearance types and one in particular allows for a less tight layout for reading purposes. Which I know isn't what everyone cares about, clearly coding is highly desirable for some and threads are the key here . . . and that is totally fine.

But to say Discord doesn't allow for a vast amount of organization isn't fair. Because it's dependent on how a person RPs and how they present their story. If they're like me and do a scene by scene (chapter/missions) type of presentation threads just don't do it justice, while Discord makes for the perfect (and totally free) tool that does it all so damn well.

It's amazing for group RPing too.

I know the character limit is a pissoff, I'll give you that, it really isn't designed for huge posts, but that isn't to say you can't because you can and there are settings so it appears as a solid singular post verses broken into multiple posts. But yes lacks the pretty linear visual a thread has.

 

[yanastyboi]

I mean I get it everyone has their aesthetic and some people don't like Discord because it isn't always visually pretty the way a coded thread is. However, discord is hella organized if you know what you're doing.

 

[Idea]

Well yeah you'd be a complete idiot not to seperate OOC from IC in Discord. You'd also be kind of dumb not to untilize the category and channel function of Discord to organize your RP and make it easier to locate specific content from specific point in the plot.

I'll simply add here that maybe calling people "dumb" and "idiots" isn't the best approach to a constructive conversation..

I myself have been RPing group and one on ones using some form of separation for the narrative (thread or otherwise) for years. I've called them anything from scenes, missions, chapters to arcs whatever the name I've divided my RPs to make for cohesive narrative, visuals and so on. Discord allows this very easily, actually more easily than a thread (unless I were to make multiple threads which RPN no longer allows the way they tried a few years ago --- or the way another site I am allows).

So I guess it highly depends on how your organize your information. If you do a more classic "ooc" "ic" "lore" in each thread then forums are perfect. If you RP scene by scene (chapter by chapter / mission by mission) and separate each into it's own channel on discord and further separate those into categories (that you can minimize to reduce clutter) you have a highly organized, easy to manage, easy to navigate server. As well as easy to find posts, as you'd know which scene/mission/chapter in what category a thing happened in.

Leaving aside the fact threadmarks do all of that and more- not to mention hosted projects have similar functions if the situation calls for it- What you're suggesting again works best if the arc and posts in those arcs are relatively short. Otherwise, knowing the page or relative position of a post, two things which are more accessible by thread, is simply an easier path.

Now I agree you can't visually add any kind of fancy, flashy coding like RPN allows. But you can set your discord to three appearance types and one in particular allows for a less tight layout for reading purposes. Which I know isn't what you care about, clearly coding is highly desirable for you and threads are the key here . . . and that is totally fine.

I mean I get it everyone has their aesthetic and some people don't like Discord because it isn't always visually pretty the way a coded thread is. However, discord is hella organized if you know what you're doing.

While I do enjoy coding, I wasn't talking about coding at any point in my previous post. Discord isn't built for long sequences of text, but for smaller, more interrupted conversations. As a result things like line spacing, text clarity in bulk, framing size... all of these things contribute to a "piled on" layout in discord posts. Things like page numbers with set post counts are also far more convenient than scrolling up a potentially infinite space. And yes, maybe you can fix some of my complaints with discord with a bit of work, but forum threads come with it built-in. Disadvantages can be compensated for as well in threads, with twofold the efficiency due to the methods relying on links and information rather than built-in structures.

But to say Discord doesn't allow for a vast amount of organization isn't fair.

Good thing I didn't say that then

Because it's dependent on how you RP and how you present your story. If you're like me and do a scene by scene (chapter/missions) type of presentation threads just don't do it justice, while Discord makes for the perfect (and totally free) tool that does it all so damn well.

Well, threads can and have done it justice. At least, the way I see it.

 

[yanastyboi]

Leaving aside the fact threadmarks do all of that and more-

Well speaking from experience those Threadmarkers are not as intuitive as categories and channels. Granted there are tutorial threads on it. I shouldn't need to read a tutorial to figure out an organization system. One which Discord can easily provide no tutorial needed. So maybe threadmarkers do that and more, but maybe someones time is more important. So a system that someone can use without explanation is better than a system that requires a tutorial to learn.

hings like page numbers with set post counts are also far more convenient than scrolling up a potentially infinite space.

Discord has an amazing search system. Users can locate anything without scrolling anywhere. Users can pin point a search down to a specific channel, user, keywords all in combination. So yeah there might be page numbers and set post counts (I've never tracked a post number to a specific post myself, so this is a useless feature for me). But I can search down to a channel user and keywords and bloop there is the post I wanted in my search panel.

So yeah it's actually very good for searching and locating things months past with ease.

As a result things like line spacing, text clarity in bulk, framing size... all of these things contribute to a "piled on" layout in discord posts.

Like I said users can set it to appear less clumped. Users can also not fullscreen discord, I don't because I don't reading in the wide. This is really subjective though, I don't find Discord uncomfortable or confusing to read, layout isn't really an issue for me and I don't really find it clumped.

The only thing I agree on is yes the 2000 character limit is annoying. However, I can get over that because everything else Discord allows me to do with the addition to a level of privacy a public forum doesn't have, I'll take having to send my reply over three postings if it means it's private . . . and it is an aesthetic thing I can deal with.

It doesn't mean you can't use it to RP detailed long posts, but I understand why it isn't always aesthetically pleasing to use if the users preference is threads (speficially RPN).

RPN is unique and one of a kind for layouts, no other forum allows what RPN does. So if you've never RP'd using the advanced as shit CSS/HTML coding that RPN allows, the visuals aren't such a downer going to Discord. I'd take Discord over my go to forum (which isn't RPN), because it's layout is dated, it's tools are nonexistent, and Discord looks 10 times better.

And yes I understand you don't just mean the actual coding but RPN layout as it is. But still not all forums are as pretty as RPN either!! So speaking in general I understand why Discord is appealing to RPers it provides a lot that forums can't in general (RPN not included because again this site is a gem for some of it's tools).

Plus some people just like the easy, access Discord provides and gosh darn I'll take it on my phone over RPN!!

 

[jones573]

Thank you both so much! This was really helpful, I super appreciate it- And I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one tripped up by 'doubling'!

May you be blessed with responsive writing partners and genuine interest in your plots, and whatever other sort of 'roleplay blessings' you seek