This by far of the most stupidest things I have came across People actually believe they can judge a person by their grammar skills, Albert Einstein him self actually flunked English,People today think all role playing is about having perfect grammar, That is not role playing is about, True role playing is about experiencing the role play its self...
Judging by grammar
- Thread starter littleboy
- Start date
call me rae
Closing this account
I think it depends. If for instance your asking me to change my post because you genuinely didn't understand what I was talking about that's fine.
If you refuse to roleplay with me because I misuse homonyms than your being an elitist.
I myself am not perfect and I don't expect other people to be. I ask only that I can read your post and reply to it. Other than that if I have a question I just ask,
If you refuse to roleplay with me because I misuse homonyms than your being an elitist.
I myself am not perfect and I don't expect other people to be. I ask only that I can read your post and reply to it. Other than that if I have a question I just ask,
ManicMuse
I ax-o-lotl questions.
I can relate to this issue. I find myself to often be judged by elitists on this matter and deemed not worth. Due to an accident when I was younger, I do struggle with limitations of my abilities. That sometimes greatly impacts my writing, other times it does not. I find it insulting that people would cast me out because my writing does have its limits.
However, on the other side of this, I do have my own limits. My issue does not come down to the misspelling of a few words. It comes down to, if I spend more time trying to figure out what you said than the details of your post, there is an issue. In the same breath, I could also lecture on over posting with perfect grammar. If it takes four paragraphs for your character to cross the room as you explain every detail of him, I am already asleep.
Over all, I think it all comes down to elitists. There just needs to be some special area we can put them all so they can over describe everything together in perfection. Then the rest of us can all work together. We all have an off grammar moment, they are part of the human condition, the trick is over coming.
However, on the other side of this, I do have my own limits. My issue does not come down to the misspelling of a few words. It comes down to, if I spend more time trying to figure out what you said than the details of your post, there is an issue. In the same breath, I could also lecture on over posting with perfect grammar. If it takes four paragraphs for your character to cross the room as you explain every detail of him, I am already asleep.
Over all, I think it all comes down to elitists. There just needs to be some special area we can put them all so they can over describe everything together in perfection. Then the rest of us can all work together. We all have an off grammar moment, they are part of the human condition, the trick is over coming.
JayTee
Eight Thousand Club
I wont judge you if you make a mistake with your grammar, nobody is perfect.
I WILL judge you if you KEEP making the same mistake after it's been pointed out to you.
I WILL judge you if you KEEP making the same mistake after it's been pointed out to you.
Killer Queen
Guaranteed to blow your mind (any time).
No, you cant judge a person by their grammar
However, no one is judging anyone. People who prefer fluent english speakers are well within their right. Its very frustrating to tey to decipher what someone is saying if they dont speak english very well. Its an unfortunate truth. Most would rather not deal with that. Not to mention its very hard to take a roleplay seriously when the other person has poor grammar skills
However, no one is judging anyone. People who prefer fluent english speakers are well within their right. Its very frustrating to tey to decipher what someone is saying if they dont speak english very well. Its an unfortunate truth. Most would rather not deal with that. Not to mention its very hard to take a roleplay seriously when the other person has poor grammar skills
[QUOTE="Killer Queen]No, you cant judge a person by their grammar
However, no one is judging anyone. People who prefer fluent english speakers are well within their right. Its very frustrating to tey to decipher what someone is saying if they dont speak english very well. Its an unfortunate truth. Most would rather not deal with that. Not to mention its very hard to take a role play seriously when the other person has poor grammar skills
[/QUOTE]
Then you are not role playing, as I said before role playing is no about grammar its about forming a mental connection with the other person, if someone cant see past the grammar they are the ones having the problems.
However, no one is judging anyone. People who prefer fluent english speakers are well within their right. Its very frustrating to tey to decipher what someone is saying if they dont speak english very well. Its an unfortunate truth. Most would rather not deal with that. Not to mention its very hard to take a role play seriously when the other person has poor grammar skills
[/QUOTE]
Then you are not role playing, as I said before role playing is no about grammar its about forming a mental connection with the other person, if someone cant see past the grammar they are the ones having the problems.
call me rae
Closing this account
I think what @Killer Queen meant is just what I said people don't enjoy roleplaying with people they can't understand. It's not that the person is a bad roleplayer or they are being judged it's just that if the posts aren't understandable than the story can't be progressed.
Ex. Said you running she many miles how are you?
That is a confusing sentence. First off I'm not sure if it's something someone is saying or something that is happening in real time or what.
Rewrite: He knew she had run many miles and he asked " How are you? "
The second sentence is much easier to read and gives a clearer idea of what is happening.
Now was the first sentence "wrong" or "bad" no. It was simply difficult to understand.
Now imagine several sentences just like the first making up a post. It would be very hard to determine what was occurring in the reply. Personally I would just ask the person what they meant to say or try to work it out via context but sometimes the other person might simply be unwilling or unable to express themselves better.
Again that's not a wrong thing or makes them bad roleplayers - but the plain fact is I can't write a story if I don't know what is going on. I can't answer a question I don't understand either. So even talking to someone to form a "mental connection" is hard if you don't understand what their saying.
Think of it like talking to someone with a thick accent. They might be speaking your language but if you can't understand the individual words than how can you respond?
That doesn't give you the right to make fun of that person or make them feel stupid no. But at the same time if you don't wish to have a long conversation with that person that's your right too.
Just be nice and courteous about it.
Ex. Said you running she many miles how are you?
That is a confusing sentence. First off I'm not sure if it's something someone is saying or something that is happening in real time or what.
Rewrite: He knew she had run many miles and he asked " How are you? "
The second sentence is much easier to read and gives a clearer idea of what is happening.
Now was the first sentence "wrong" or "bad" no. It was simply difficult to understand.
Now imagine several sentences just like the first making up a post. It would be very hard to determine what was occurring in the reply. Personally I would just ask the person what they meant to say or try to work it out via context but sometimes the other person might simply be unwilling or unable to express themselves better.
Again that's not a wrong thing or makes them bad roleplayers - but the plain fact is I can't write a story if I don't know what is going on. I can't answer a question I don't understand either. So even talking to someone to form a "mental connection" is hard if you don't understand what their saying.
Think of it like talking to someone with a thick accent. They might be speaking your language but if you can't understand the individual words than how can you respond?
That doesn't give you the right to make fun of that person or make them feel stupid no. But at the same time if you don't wish to have a long conversation with that person that's your right too.
Just be nice and courteous about it.
Seiden
New Member
It does not make them bad roleplayers, but it makes their posts difficult to understand. I do not want to read a post 3 times to understand it. Then I will not roleplay with someone that cannot write properly.
Lord Bradorian
Naughtius Maximus
I'll admit, I have done this, but in my defense most of the people I've come across with poor grammar are inactive, undetailed, and so on. I still give 'em a shot, though.
Lord Bradorian
Naughtius Maximus
I also agree with the rest of the people who have posted here. Trying to understand a post from someone with bad grammar is nearly impossible on your first try. For me because I'm so used to seeing proper grammar, when I see bad grammar it takes me off guard.
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Zilla
New Member
One of my current RP partners has shit grammar, yo. There are times where he is downright unintelligible and I have to ask what the hell he meant. But I don't treat RP like writing a novel or a paper. I'm not here to grade you; I'm here to write with you.
That said, I find that people who cannot write with some proficiency usually cannot tell a story well, either. RP is about storytelling.
That said, I find that people who cannot write with some proficiency usually cannot tell a story well, either. RP is about storytelling.
AkuTheWolfOkami
The Shape-shifting Master of Goatees and Darkness
Lol is this really a thread?
If someone doesn't want to rp with you because you have terrible grammar. That's their right. You don't like it? Get better at Grammar.
It's nothing complicated about it. Also, using Einstein as an example is a false equivalence. "They're both bad at English. They're both smart." Is what you're implying. Einstein was fucking German. Who cares if he was bad at English. He didn't make a career out of writing novels in English.
The whole idea that you rp for the story, not for the grammar is a personal decision. It shouldn't be used as an umbrella statement for roleplaying in general. At the end of the day, it is writing. Writing is a form of communication. If you can deal with folks who don't communicate well, applause for ya lads! Do you want a cookie?
I roleplay with folks who English isn't their first language. (Guess what? The first words out of my mouth weren't English either) They strive to get better at their Grammar. They improve, they take criticism, and move on. They don't make threads about "being judged by grammar."
GG guys. Go enjoy your rps. Happy Hunting.
If someone doesn't want to rp with you because you have terrible grammar. That's their right. You don't like it? Get better at Grammar.
It's nothing complicated about it. Also, using Einstein as an example is a false equivalence. "They're both bad at English. They're both smart." Is what you're implying. Einstein was fucking German. Who cares if he was bad at English. He didn't make a career out of writing novels in English.
The whole idea that you rp for the story, not for the grammar is a personal decision. It shouldn't be used as an umbrella statement for roleplaying in general. At the end of the day, it is writing. Writing is a form of communication. If you can deal with folks who don't communicate well, applause for ya lads! Do you want a cookie?
I roleplay with folks who English isn't their first language. (Guess what? The first words out of my mouth weren't English either) They strive to get better at their Grammar. They improve, they take criticism, and move on. They don't make threads about "being judged by grammar."
GG guys. Go enjoy your rps. Happy Hunting.
Gilzar
Bear With Me Here ?
This is a good question.
Being a GM I can relate to this. I know it sounds ridiculous rejecting someone for grammar, but most of the time it's not just grammar alone. As much as people don't like it, grammar is very important in roleplaying because it makes things look neat and allows your posts to make sense. Not only this but grammar also usually reflects effort and experience. I throw the term usually in there loosely because I know many exceptions to what I'm about to say.
See, while grammar is not going to effect the plot or character by any means, it will effect the roleplayer at one point or another. Roleplaying is all about first impressions, and like I said earlier grammar makes things look neat and definitely leaves an impression. If you look around at the various roleplayers on the website, as well as other sites for that matter, you will see that there is a definite correlation between grammar and experience. To put it bluntly, new roleplayers (including myself at one point) normally don't have the grammar habits that seasoned and experienced roleplayers have. That's one way to tell apart who is experienced and who is not. I know that probably sounded extremely snobby, so I do apologize. Good grammar at first sight makes you look experienced and neat. A lacking of grammar on the other hand shows inexperience. Experience normally doesn't matter, but to some it does.
It has been stated numerous times in this thread already, but grammar is important because it lets other readers understand your writing better. See, for someone like me when I see a spot where there's supposed to be a period, comma, or just a misspelled word it bothers me. Though it bothers me, it's not going to effect anything unless it constantly happens. Then problems will arise. This is going to be blunt, so I apologize if I sound elitist, but if I'm putting more time into just trying to comprehend the post by making sense of it than by analyzing and reacting, it won't be enjoyable. People roleplay to have fun, as you're already aware.
Let me throw in an example by using just a simple comma.
Before: "Let's eat grandma!" The hungry boy shouted.
After: "Let's eat, grandma!" The hungry boy shouted.
See, even the fate of grandma can be decided by a comma and that's why understanding and using grammar is important. It's so that people can understand you.
While we certainly shouldn't judge by grammar, understand it's something very hard to do. While roleplayers certainly don't have to have perfect grammar (I certainly don't) it is at some point necessary to have the basics so that we can effectively communicate and roleplay.
Being a GM I can relate to this. I know it sounds ridiculous rejecting someone for grammar, but most of the time it's not just grammar alone. As much as people don't like it, grammar is very important in roleplaying because it makes things look neat and allows your posts to make sense. Not only this but grammar also usually reflects effort and experience. I throw the term usually in there loosely because I know many exceptions to what I'm about to say.
See, while grammar is not going to effect the plot or character by any means, it will effect the roleplayer at one point or another. Roleplaying is all about first impressions, and like I said earlier grammar makes things look neat and definitely leaves an impression. If you look around at the various roleplayers on the website, as well as other sites for that matter, you will see that there is a definite correlation between grammar and experience. To put it bluntly, new roleplayers (including myself at one point) normally don't have the grammar habits that seasoned and experienced roleplayers have. That's one way to tell apart who is experienced and who is not. I know that probably sounded extremely snobby, so I do apologize. Good grammar at first sight makes you look experienced and neat. A lacking of grammar on the other hand shows inexperience. Experience normally doesn't matter, but to some it does.
It has been stated numerous times in this thread already, but grammar is important because it lets other readers understand your writing better. See, for someone like me when I see a spot where there's supposed to be a period, comma, or just a misspelled word it bothers me. Though it bothers me, it's not going to effect anything unless it constantly happens. Then problems will arise. This is going to be blunt, so I apologize if I sound elitist, but if I'm putting more time into just trying to comprehend the post by making sense of it than by analyzing and reacting, it won't be enjoyable. People roleplay to have fun, as you're already aware.
Let me throw in an example by using just a simple comma.
Before: "Let's eat grandma!" The hungry boy shouted.
After: "Let's eat, grandma!" The hungry boy shouted.
See, even the fate of grandma can be decided by a comma and that's why understanding and using grammar is important. It's so that people can understand you.
While we certainly shouldn't judge by grammar, understand it's something very hard to do. While roleplayers certainly don't have to have perfect grammar (I certainly don't) it is at some point necessary to have the basics so that we can effectively communicate and roleplay.
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Grey
Dialectical Hermeticist
There's a correlation between how seriously a person takes rules of grammar, their ability to distinguish between fact and fiction, and their morality. I should hunt down that particular study again, see if there have been follow ups.
Though personally I just assume that anyone with poor grammar is learning English as a second language, and remain entirely patient and polite.
Though personally I just assume that anyone with poor grammar is learning English as a second language, and remain entirely patient and polite.
Edrondol
Resident Old Guy
OP and I wouldn't be compatible, it seems. I tend to get annoyed at poor grammar. I don't usually say anything, however, as it's not worth the trouble. But if I were doing RP with someone - which suggests a longer-termed interaction - I probably would. And while I'd TRY not to come across like a jerk, correcting someone's grammar like a disapproving teacher tends to put people on the defensive. Am I perfect? Oh heck no! But some of the common mistakes just make me bite my tongue until I taste copper. Your/you're, their/there/they're, its/it's, loser/looser...get these incorrect and I turn into the nun from The Blues Brothers.
It's probably because of my age and how I did NOT grow up with short-hand texting.
It's probably because of my age and how I did NOT grow up with short-hand texting.
Lokipi
QT Pi
I have never really called anyone out for poor grammar... but this could be due to the fact that I'm not perfect myself. I don't particularly assume that poor grammar is a sign of someone learning a second language either. Ultimately, I go by one rule, no matter the rp I am in. We are all here to roleplay and that's great. With every post and roleplay you participate in, the more you improve. Therefore no one should really harshly call out others for their mistakes. Why? Because we are all in the same boat. It’s just some have spent more time at sea than others.
However, sometimes it doesn't hurt to point things out and help people learn. Manners come into play here though. Just because you can pick out mistakes in someone else's post, does not give you the right to rip them a new one. Plus this can have a whip lash effect when you inevitably make a mistake yourself.
However, back to point, my style dramatically improved when I was younger and had just started as I had a supportive group to show me the ropes and I was willing to listen. Lead by example after all. Usually spotting bad grammar is just a sign that you have been playing the game a lot longer than they have, so there really shouldn't be any judgement at all, only support.
I can understand why people get annoyed if the person who is not communicating well is not trying though. It's kinda like watching a person repeatedly bending a plastic ruler then being surprised that it snapped and slapped them in the face... you tried to help them, explained why they shouldn't but they kept on doing it.
So the key here really, is treat everyone with courtesy. To the people who are trying help others improve, awesome
To the people trying to improve and listening, amazing, you're just like the rest us. So to you, ladies and gentlemen, I raise my glass! Keep writing amazing stories!
However, sometimes it doesn't hurt to point things out and help people learn. Manners come into play here though. Just because you can pick out mistakes in someone else's post, does not give you the right to rip them a new one. Plus this can have a whip lash effect when you inevitably make a mistake yourself.
However, back to point, my style dramatically improved when I was younger and had just started as I had a supportive group to show me the ropes and I was willing to listen. Lead by example after all. Usually spotting bad grammar is just a sign that you have been playing the game a lot longer than they have, so there really shouldn't be any judgement at all, only support.
I can understand why people get annoyed if the person who is not communicating well is not trying though. It's kinda like watching a person repeatedly bending a plastic ruler then being surprised that it snapped and slapped them in the face... you tried to help them, explained why they shouldn't but they kept on doing it.
So the key here really, is treat everyone with courtesy. To the people who are trying help others improve, awesome
To the people trying to improve and listening, amazing, you're just like the rest us. So to you, ladies and gentlemen, I raise my glass! Keep writing amazing stories!
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JokerValentine
We Out
So true. Grammar can be messy, and you can still get your point across. Education doesn't really measure imagination.
AkuTheWolfOkami
The Shape-shifting Master of Goatees and Darkness
I feel like.....y'all missed the point from the OP but ok. I wish this thread would die. I'm just going to unwatch it.
Elle Joyner
Fracturer of Fairytales
I just have to ask...littleboy said:
What?? Am I the only one who doesn't understand what this even means?
I mean - don't get me wrong. I get along very well with most of the people I roleplay with. But there is no 'metal connecting' going on in my writing, or theirs. We aren't establishing a psychic link - we're writing fiction. And any writing, if it's meant to be read by someone... should be relatively readable. Like Jaytee said - perfection isn't necessary, but if what I'm reading is filled with grammatical errors, missing punctuation and riddled with misspellings, I'm not going to 'connect' with anything.
If ANYTHING - grammar errors make it more difficult, really, to get into the story/characters.
This isn't about elitism - it's about readability and entertainment value. If I'm too busy picking through what you wrote, to try and comprehend it, I can't actually enjoy reading it, can I?
Edrondol
Resident Old Guy
Actually, this being a written medium, I don't think we misunderstood at all. I get what OP is trying to say and while I agree to some degree, I also disagree.AkuTheWolfOkami said:
(And Einstein didn't flunk English. That's a myth. He did have speech issues when he was young, but that was in German and French. He didn't learn English until later in life.)
AkuTheWolfOkami
The Shape-shifting Master of Goatees and Darkness
"Actually, this being a written medium, I don't think we misunderstood at all. "
Written medium implies it can't be misunderstood.
O...k. -unwatches-
Written medium implies it can't be misunderstood.
O...k. -unwatches-
Edrondol
Resident Old Guy
(<_<) (>_>) ( O.o )AkuTheWolfOkami said:
Uh, written medium can absolutely be misunderstood, both in meaning and context. Just look at all the various interpretations of famous writings. Now add text speech and bad grammar to the mix. Look, I get that the main thing here is the RP. But RP requires immersion. If you're busy interpreting someone's post, it can ruin said immersion. Which is why grammar CAN BE (stressing the can be) important. Just my $.02. I feel that we're not going to see eye to eye on this and that's cool.
call me rae
Closing this account
@AkuTheWolfOkami I think we all get what the OP was trying to say we were just trying to share our own experiences so that he might understand why someone might find poor grammar a deterent to roleplaying with him. Which seems more productive than just posting that you wish the thread would die. If that's the case than don't reply to it.
As for the mental connection thing @Elle Joyner yeah I think he meant that he roleplays to make friends or something like it? I dunno it was on odd turn of phrase I'll admit.
As for the mental connection thing @Elle Joyner yeah I think he meant that he roleplays to make friends or something like it? I dunno it was on odd turn of phrase I'll admit.
Lyrite
New Member
saying albert einstein failed english proves nothing. he was a scientist. not a writer.
soular
alien sympathizer
I'm just going to put this out there. Of course people are going to judge you by your grammar, whether it is negative or not. To put it simply, whether you do it for fun or to improve your writing skills, forum based role playing is writing. It is crucial for the post to be readable in order for people to fully emerge themselves in and enjoy the experience. However, the level of grammar ability people expect their partners to have can vary.
Some people can tolerate more than others, so if they can't tolerate your grammar SUCK IT UP. Find someone who can tolerate your skill level and move on.
Some people can tolerate more than others, so if they can't tolerate your grammar SUCK IT UP. Find someone who can tolerate your skill level and move on.
