Character Theory HOW NOT TO MAKE A CS

[MDL]

That's ...one huge assumption from very little pretty much unrelated info.

Nah it's solid research bro. Trust me on this one.

I believe it has, in principle, potential, even if very little of it.

I agree that it has potential. Just never lives up to it in my opinion. And listing clothing items and their color does little for world-building, if anything. The same goes for fanfiction, there's a lot of style porn in bad fanfiction, and it doesn't serve the story, or the world, one bit.

people who add too little to the CS rather than a little more.

Well no one's arguing for content-less character sheets. And if the "more" is crap, then it's essentially less.

But I want to reiterate that I don't mind it personally, because I don't engage with those types of players. Have nothing against them. Whatever floats their boat. Be it skinny leather pants, or spiked frosty top hair.

 

[MDL]

Basically if you are trying to convey something to your partner through fashion you should probably make sure your partner is someone for whom fashion is a language they are familiar with.

I don't understand how fashion-sense has anything to do with interpreting what people are wearing? If I see a goth walking down the street I know it's a goth, but I don't know anything about goth fashion.

 

[Idea]

Nah it's solid research bro. Trust me on this one.

Forgive me for not being readily eager to accept the "research" of someone who appears to look down on a group of people simply defined by their enjoyment of a given medium. Of which I happen to belong to.

I agree that it has potential. Just never lives up to it in my opinion. And listing clothing items and their color does little for world-building, if anything. The same goes for fanfiction, there's a lot of style porn in bad fanfiction, and it doesn't serve the story one bit.

Shouldn't we then be encouraging the better incorporation of it into the story rather than discouraging the adding of information then? I understand that you don't mind it, but the OP was definitely trying to discourage it and if we both agree it has potential, isn't it a better investment of time and effort trying to get people to make use of that potential, rather than casting it aside?

Well no one's arguing for content-less character sheets.

I know you aren't- but the principle you're using leads more into that. People will cut into personality and backstory for that reason, and maybe you don't see that as a problem I wouldn't know, but I prefer people being as descriptive as possible, adding as much to things and information as possible. I like that kind of juicy content- if my choice is between people who add barely if at all relevant information into their CS out of their own passion, I'd much rather that over people who don't put a personality into the CS "because it's not necessary".

And if the "more" is crap, then it's essentially less.

Absolutely agree. But it isn't "crap" to me unless it is:
*Poorly constructed
*Contradicting information
*Harmful to the needs of the roleplay
and/or
*It comes at the expense of more important information

 

[Idea]

You misunderstood my point about knowing your audience is tied to by point about the subjective nature of fashion.

Basically if you are trying to convey something to your partner through fashion you should probably make sure your partner is someone for whom fashion is a language they are familiar with.

If not your wasting their time and your own. Because they aren’t going to care what the character is wearing and you will have wasted your time adding details that aren’t going to be valued.

It’s about understanding that the CS is as much about explaining your character to another person as it is fleshing out the character for yourself.

I didn't misunderstand you, I just disagree. I think it's good to add details to a character and make them deeper even if that isn't valued. The worth of my work has nothing to do with whether other people appreciate it.

I do agree on the part about the CS being also to explain things to your partner though. But if you want to share something about a personality trait, and make it clear, there exists a section for it: "personality". The clothing would just be a reflection of it or adding on top of it.

 

[MDL]

Forgive me for not being readily eager to accept the "research" of someone who appears to look down on a group of people simply defined by their enjoyment of a given medium. Of which I happen to belong to.

Whoa, slow down there partner. Liking anime doesn't make you a weeb. I've even seen anime that I've liked. Lots of normal people are anime-heads and don't piss all over Japanese culture as often as they can. And I don't look down on them. I just prefer to roleplay with people of a similar skill-level as my own. But there is an obvious pattern of poor roleplaying and fetish-like fantasy-fulfilling and being a weeb that is undeniable, in my opinion.

Shouldn't we then be encouraging the better incorporation of it into the story rather than discouraging the adding of information then? I understand that you don't mind it, but the OP was definitely trying to discourage it and if we both agree it has potential, isn't it a better investment of time and effort trying to get people to make use of that potential, rather than casting it aside?

Well I'm not sure we should be either encouraging it or discouraging it. Well. I wouldn't oppose encouragement of it, if you want to give it a go, but I'm not going to do it personally. As I said, roleplaying sites allow me to chose who I play with, which is why this is not a problem. I think the OP is struggling because he/she is hanging in RP circles which he/she has outgrown. At least that is a possibility.

I know you aren't- but the principle you're using leads more into that. People will cut into personality and backstory for that reason, and maybe you don't see that as a problem I wouldn't know, but I prefer people being as descriptive as possible, adding as much to things and information as possible. I like that kind of juicy content- if my choice is between people who add barely if at all relevant information into their CS out of their own passion, I'd much rather that over people who don't put a personality into the CS "because it's not necessary".

Well we have a different preference. I hate character sheets that are 2 pages long and half of it is totally irrelevant. If the CS is a fascinating read, which is like 1/1000 CS in RPing, then I'm fine with it.

Absolutely agree. But it isn't "crap" to me unless it is:
*Poorly constructed
*Contradicting information
*Harmful to the needs of the roleplay
and/or
*It comes at the expense of more important information

Well I would say 9/10 times it is all of those things. But lets agree to disagree my friend.

 

[Idea]

But lets agree to disagree my friend.

Agreed.

 

[Cosmo]

Eh.. I love writing detailed CSes and I often make those two page CSes that some people hate, but I usually don't have much sympathy to spare if someone complains about having to read on a text-based forum. The reason I do so isn't just because I like having detailed characters, but mostly because it helps me remember. I've been in RPs where there is a post every couple months or I'm in multiple RPs with vastly different characters, having a detailed CS I can refer back to and reread will help me 'capture' who that character is in my next post allowing me to better stay in character as there is little I hate more then writing a post and hating that post because it feels wrong.

Clothing- I understand why some people take a lot of time to describe what their character is wearing. Despite what people may believe, clothing plays an important part of a character's aesthetics [which can be a great assets to use when setting the scene] but also gives insight into a character's personality. A character who spends most of their day in a tailored suit is going to be a bit different then that guy at Wal*Mart who walks around in sandals and socks. This isn't 'unimportant details' especially if the writer is using it as a way a character expresses themselves, you know, just as people do in reality. Now, full disclaimer, I don't do this. Probably because, in real life, I tend to wear t-shirts and jeans and, as far as I care, if its clean then I wear it. I don't put much stock in expressing myself through my clothing, as such, this makes it harder for me to relate, but even then, there are some characters this can be important for and I have done it when I felt it was needed.

Tragic backstories.. I feel people need to calm down about this. It isn't having a sad backstory, it is how it is done. To me, a backstory is a great way to establish motivation and personality, a way to show how this character became who they are today, the more extreme the personality, generally, the more extreme of circumstances would have been needed to push them in that direction. Most people don't wake up and suddenly decide they want to kick all the puppies, after all. A well-written tragic backstory can be extremely good, why? Because sorrow is an amazing way to generate sympathy and attachment to a character, both for the writer and the reader. Now, I am not saying do a, 'Sad Larry' where everything that can go wrong will, but you just need the right things. Think about what kind of character they are, what kind of person, what the setting is and what would make sense. For instance, I just wrote a character that is a lord in a Romance of the Three Kingdoms inspired RP, so a major point in his backstory is when his wife died in childbirth which is a very real experience and especially before modern medicine, but not only did she die, they had fallen apart and started to resent one another and so when she, and the child, passed away, he felt relief. The very fact he felt relief disgusted him because what kind of man would do that? But that is a very real emotion, a very real thing that happens when sometimes people just want out. Its a great way to show that someone can be all too human and hate how human and weak they were. It doesn't mean its an, 'OMG, sad backstory, you're a nerd and get out of here with the Sasuke nonsense!'

 

[MDL]

I usually don't have much sympathy to spare if someone complains about having to read on a text-based forum

Again, reading itself isn't the issue. Otherwise no-one would be on the site. But generally you will find that if you post a 2 page CS, a lot of people in that RP will barely read it. Because they have so much other stuff to read. And they know that there is going to be a lot in that that is irrelevant to the story or stuff they will just learn through the RP. But a lot of this is up to the GM and what kind of characters they want. A good GM should encourage characters that are of similar length. And I see you don't have much sympathy for these people, I don't either tbh, but it renders a CS much less effective, perhaps not for you personally, but for everyone else in the game.

This isn't 'unimportant details' especially if the writer is using it as a way a character expresses themselves, you know, just as people do in reality

Listing clothing items and describing style in general are two different things. The first describes an outfit, the second describes personality.

 

[Cosmo]

Again, reading itself isn't the issue. Otherwise no-one would be on the site. But generally you will find that if you post a 2 page CS, a lot of people in that RP will barely read it. Because they have so much other stuff to read. And they know that there is going to be a lot in that that is irrelevant to the story or stuff they will just learn through the RP. But a lot of this is up to the GM and what kind of characters they want. A good GM should encourage characters that are of similar length. And I see you don't have much sympathy for these people, I don't either tbh, but it renders a CS much less effective, perhaps not for you personally, but for everyone else in the game.

Read my post again. I said the detail was mainly for myself. To help me capture and recall the character especially if I am juggling or the posts are sporadic. If you cannot bring yourself to read the CS, that is on you. No skin off my back, its not like I am a mind reader that will instantly know if you read or didn't. I've even been rejected, once, because I wrote so much the GM told me 'TLR'.

Everyone needs to be satisfied with their own work. I'm not responsible for them. I can only be responsible and stay true to myself and my own writing style and desires.

Listing clothing items and describing style in general are two different things. The first describes an outfit, the second describes personality.

Not at all. I assume this is because you, like me, don't see much of a difference. A character says their emotions influences their style, on some days they wear X and some they wear Y. If they are feeling moody they wear Z. So, if they describe their current outfit it displays that character expressing their emotions, feelings, and mood in a way they would without saying, 'Katie felt bad today.'

 

[MDL]

Read my post again. I said the detail was mainly for myself. To help me capture and recall the character especially if I am juggling or the posts are sporadic. If you cannot bring yourself to read the CS, that is on you. No skin off my back, its not like I am a mind reader that will instantly know if you read or didn't. I've even been rejected, once, because I wrote so much the GM told me 'TLR'.

Everyone needs to be satisfied with their own work. I'm not responsible for them. I can only be responsible and stay true to myself and my own writing style and desires.



Not at all. I assume this is because you, like me, don't see much of a difference. A character says their emotions influences their style, on some days they wear X and some they wear Y. If they are feeling moody they wear Z. So, if they describe their current outfit it displays that character expressing their emotions, feelings, and mood in a way they would without saying, 'Katie felt bad today.'

Hey I ain't telling people to write less in their CSs, I'm just saying that this might have an impact.

 

[Cosmo]

Hey I ain't telling people to write less in their CSs, I'm just saying that this might have an impact.

It may. Some people may try to push themselves to match the length or quality and burn themselves out. Others may feel self-conscious and drop out. But, again, I can't be responsible for everyone's actions.

Someone who writes very little, may make the GM feel they are disrespecting them by not putting much effort or thought [which may or may not be true] into the RP. It may scare off people like me who think this RP is full of people not trying hard enough. We cannot control how people will react. We can only do our best to write what we think fits.

 

[MDL]

It may. Some people may try to push themselves to match the length or quality and burn themselves out. Others may feel self-conscious and drop out. But, again, I can't be responsible for the everyone's actions.

Someone who writes very little, may make the GM feel they are disrespecting them by not putting much effort or thought [which may or may not be true] into the RP. It may scare off people like me who think this RP is full of people not trying hard enough. We cannot control how people will react. We can only do our best to write what we think fits.

That's true.

 

[MetaruSonikku]

I do agree that one shouldn't make a CS that's radiant like the sun or with unreadable font, but at the same time nobody's so much as being rude if they forget to account for that one vampire that can't stand the existence of the color yellow.

I feel personally attacked...

 

[Idea]

I feel personally attacked...

Well, it wasn't an attack. In fact, it was the opposite: a defense.

 

[MetaruSonikku]

Well, it wasn't an attack. In fact, it was the opposite: a defense.

Sorry, I was just trying to be silly! I didn’t mean to come off as aggressive.

 

[Idea]

Sorry, I was just trying to be silly! I didn’t mean to come off as aggressive.

Ah my apologies as well. I got into a couple arguments earlier today and I guess it was getting to me. Sorry if I was rude.

 

[LazyDaze]

I took this for what this was and had a good laugh. Lol.