Experiences GM NPCs who frequently belittle/upstage the PCs

[Bone2pick]

If you're a longtime veteran of group adventure roleplays, and if you've played under several different GMs, you've likely encountered what I'm referring to. For those who haven't please allow me to clarify. There are GMs out there who relish the opportunity to create superior (nigh unbeatable) NPCs. Furthermore, they love to populate their worlds with them. And not only are they dominate in almost every significant way over the PCs, they regularly gloat about their supremacy.

For example, if the PCs are medieval thieves the GM will introduce their "master thief." Whenever the PCs fail one of their missions the master thief will typically mock them, solve the problem with little effort, and then explain that if the characters weren't such imbeciles/incompetents that they wouldn't have struggled with their task. The GM loosely presents this as a "teaching moment" for the players, but in reality it's merely an opportunity to upstage everyone. The PCs were destined to fail, and the NPC couldn't lose.

To make matters worse, rather than just having one obnoxious NPC, some GMs will sprinkle them throughout their setting. A local sheriff who can never be fooled. A thief who can never be caught. A drunken swordsman who can never be bested. A beautiful vixen who can manipulate anyone. A smug merchant who never makes an unfavorable deal. Superiority is everywhere, and they (the offending NPCs) always remind the players of their "place in the world."

It's fair to call them Mary Sues, but seeing as how they're merely NPCs and that there can be so many of them, I prefer the term Pet NPCs. I've encountered this particular GM defect twice on this site, and I quickly dropped both roleplays once I spotted the pattern. Believe it or not, I've actually encountered it more often in kitchen table RPGs. But that is likely because I have the luxery of being more selective of my forum roleplays.

Have you played under a GM who enjoys using Pet NPCs? Regardless if you have or haven't, what are your thoughts on the topic?

 

[Idea]

When discussing this topic, I'd like to start by stating I believe there are times when the practice in discussion is appropriate, this is, of making an NPC that is superior in some or various regards to any PC character. I have both been in roleplays that did so and have actively created NPCs and even PCs of this nature. However, this isn't a matter to be done at just anytime for any character. I'd say to use a character of that type, three conditions ought to be met:
1. The character should be seldom directly involved in the plot
2. The character needs to have a proper reason for their superiority (in universe)
3. The character needs to have a proper reason for their superiority in the narrative

For instance, in a certain superhero highschool roleplay I ran (well, it was a bnha fandom, but the explanation is easier if I put it in those terms), the teachers were all professional heroes that trained for years to develop their tactics, bodies and powers, plus had actual work experience with those, whereas the player characters, the students, were just entering their first year of training. Naturally, they couldn't stand a chance. This serves a multitude of narrative purposes, and the reason in universe is the one I just explained. Add that the fact that they are teachers and have another job on the side and you have pretty good reason for only a limited few to be present when the plot points happen. Thus all three conditions are met.


Of course there are plenty of bad examples of the practice too. In one case I've been in contact with recently, two supposedly "superior fighters" were duking it out in front of a crowd our characters were supposed to be in. The problem was that said fight was pretty boring as the exact reasons why any of it was supposed to be impressive were either assumed or shrouded in mystery to the players. There was also no visible narrative purpose, all the fight did was stall the plot and flaunt the superiority of the NPCs.

For those in doubt, I say, do it only if there is no way around it. Even when it's done right, it's rarely appreciated by the players, who end up feeling sidelined or belittled. And if you do absolutely have to do it, then keep in mind that you need to assure those players they remain meanginful and important, that just because there is some character that happens to be stronger that means they are a goal to reach not a wall that can't be crossed.

I hope peeps find this helpful, good luck and happy RPing!

 

[QuirkyAngel]

To me, the purpose of an npc is to color the setting. Their purpose is to add a sense of "realism" into the world created and populate it so it doesn't feel empty. They'll come in all sorts of levels from lvl 1 grunts to level 50 bosses. Some npcs serve as fodder to be beaten. Others aren't meant to be beaten and your character will be heavily punished if they try. That's normal. Unless you intend to play the strongest character said world, there will always be a character superior than yours existing as a backdrop. They can even play a critical part in the plot depending on how they are used. The damsel in distress. The master that teaches your character a new skill. The companion that follows the group, whose death motivates them, etc. Depending on how much the characters are liked by the gms/players, they may end up crossing the bridge into pc territory. Pretty much "pets"/favored npcs that get quite a bit of screen time and a bit of plot-armor since no one (mainly the gm) really wants to see them die. This, in my mind, is the real issue that causes the "gm defect" you're talking about. It's when the gm loves their characters and world so much they forget that player enjoyment is also a factor.

I've seen it. Been in rps with it. Never bothered mentioning it because...well...it's the gm's world. They can design it however they want. I join an rp because it sounds interesting. I drop an rp because it ceases to be entertaining. That's it. Whether npc or pc, Mary Sue characters aren't generally liked because they are unrealistic in their superiority. They destroy immersion. I'm more tolerant to Mary Sue npcs because the gms are the one's telling the story...so they can set the standards of the world. I'm just a player in it. If an npc belittles my character then they are mean character(personality-wise) and my character obviously won't like them (might say some nasty things back). I can deal with that. However, if my character has nothing to do in the story, I'll obviously be bored. At that point, other factors determine whether I leave the rp. Whether I'm still interested in my character. Whether I like the gm or the players. If the gm tries to force how my character should feel, I'm gone in a heartbeat.

 

[Umbrie]

Mary Sue NPCs are just as bad as Mary Sue PCs.