Advice/Help Genuine Q: For Action RPs

[KuonnaAi101]

I’ve always been curious on how Action based RPs are handled especially when there are teams. How do you guys decide who will ultimately “win” in a battle between characters?

 

[Tulik]

There’s a few different methods of doing this. You can either discuss it before hand between everyone, or let whomever the GM is decide if a narrative battle should lean one way or another. A lot of the time the problem that comes down to combat is a lack of communication. A battle hardened character’s owner can often get lost in the sauce and never want to lose. I’ve seen it happen plenty of times. I think communication is key.

kinda like wrestling. It’s staged in the only way that matters. Whose gonna win. Everything that happens up until that point is all for the players at hand.

 

[KuonnaAi101]

There’s a few different methods of doing this. You can either discuss it before hand between everyone, or let whomever the GM is decide if a narrative battle should lean one way or another. A lot of the time the problem that comes down to combat is a lack of communication. A battle hardened character’s owner can often get lost in the sauce and never want to lose. I’ve seen it happen plenty of times. I think communication is key.

kinda like wrestling. It’s staged in the only way that matters. Whose gonna win. Everything that happens up until that point is all for the players at hand.

Yeah, no, exactly what I was wondering about! I understand that you could communicate to the GM or the writer who your character is fighting with on how you would like your character to win in this battle. However, the question is could this kind of system be abused where a person could always claim that their character would win do to their “wit” or “strength”. (Aside from the scenario that their character has a weakness that another character has the power of). I wondered how the people who partake in Action based RPs don’t end up in arguments over wanting their character to win.

 

[Tulik]

Yeah, no, exactly what I was wondering about! I understand that you could communicate to the GM or the writer who your character is fighting with on how you would like your character to win in this battle. However, the question is could this kind of system be abused where a person could always claim that their character would win do to their “wit” or “strength”. (Aside from the scenario that their character has a weakness that another character has the power of). I wondered how the people who partake in Action based RPs don’t end up in arguments over wanting their character to win.

Well mostly you just want things to always end on a civil note. If a person always want to win? Then it’s most likely they aren’t going to be good roleplay partners. No one is perfect, and if your character is so OP that they can’t be defeated it kind of defeats the purposes of a combat scenario. If both sides don’t have an equal chance of winning the what’s the point, unless the narrative structure is to show how hopeless one side is to the other? If your in an action scene with someone who is adamant on their need to win? Might wanna give them a wide berth in the future. Might have to give them the W on the combat scene, but don’t be silent about it. If something needs to be fixed? Should do what you can to see that it is.

 

[Grey]

I use dice. It works pretty well.

 

[Tulik]

I use dice. It works pretty well.

I’ve always had a problem with dice systems when it comes to skills you have. If you make a character who is a master with the blade (not all, just a singular one) it wouldn’t make sense. Sure, there is some random aspects to all battle. But a trained fighter just wouldn’t make the mistakes.

that’s like throwing Bruce Lee into a fight and then rolling a 1. It just wouldn’t happen.

 

[Grey]

I’ve always had a problem with dice systems when it comes to skills you have. If you make a character who is a master with the blade (not all, just a singular one) it wouldn’t make sense. Sure, there is some random aspects to all battle. But a trained fighter just wouldn’t make the mistakes.

that’s like throwing Bruce Lee into a fight and then rolling a 1. It just wouldn’t happen.

I use systems that account for that - although imo everyone makes mistakes eventually, I prefer to model them as tactical miscalculations.

 

[Tulik]

I use systems that account for that - although imo everyone makes mistakes eventually, I prefer to model them as tactical miscalculations.

I mean, unless it’s an anime battle, combat doesn’t usually last for more than 30-3 minutes. But I understand that. No one is perfect, as I mentioned earlier. But a veteran who had trained for 30 years wouldn’t make as many mistakes, you know? There comes a level of experience where mistakes just don’t come very often.

 

[Grey]

Oh, for sure. Like I say, I prefer combat systems that account for skill and work fast. The one I designed is intended primarily to end fight in a quick and lethal fashion where superior skill strongly weights the odds. It also works for ridiculous wire-fu antics, which was a happy accident.

 

[Tulik]

So not to turn this into a soap debate, there you have two different methods to determine your battle outcomes. Both have their pros and cons, and obviously some people aren’t gonna want to lose ever. Just gotta avoid people like those.

 

[KuonnaAi101]

I mean, unless it’s an anime battle, combat doesn’t usually last for more than 30-3 minutes. But I understand that. No one is perfect, as I mentioned earlier. But a veteran who had trained for 30 years wouldn’t make as many mistakes, you know? There comes a level of experience where mistakes just don’t come very often.

Would you say that a dice system would work more on the basis of that you have battles between novice fighters so maybe student fighters?

 

[Grey]

Would you say that a dice system would work more on the basis of that you have battles between novice fighters so maybe student fighters?

I know you didn't ask me this, but as a designer, that depends on the dice system. Some are focused on specific ranges of ability, so they might work better for 'lower skilled' combatants, and some are tuned for masters. You can also have systems designed for low-lethality dramatic fights that are more cinematic, or gritty, 'realistic' fights where anyone can die or be maimed.

 

[Tulik]

I know you didn't ask me this, but as a designer, that depends on the dice system. Some are focused on specific ranges of ability, so they might work better for 'lower skilled' combatants, and some are tuned for masters. You can also have systems designed for low-lethality dramatic fights that are more cinematic, or gritty, 'realistic' fights where anyone can die or be maimed.

You would defer to this man’s experience. I don’t have much dice experience outside of table top.

 

[KuonnaAi101]

I know you didn't ask me this, but as a designer, that depends on the dice system. Some are focused on specific ranges of ability, so they might work better for 'lower skilled' combatants, and some are tuned for masters. You can also have systems designed for low-lethality dramatic fights that are more cinematic, or gritty, 'realistic' fights where anyone can die or be maimed.

No it’s okay I like getting more insight on this. I see what you’re saying right now, so it’s going to be a mix of attributes not just like the dice system alone.
The main reason why I’m asking this question is because I’ve always wanted to be apart of or run an Action-related RP but I wasn’t sure how it would be handled in a “fair” manner.

 

[Tulik]

Based on everything I’ve seen in Grey’s posts though I’d love to give his systems a try. Perhaps it would be a good idea for you to do songs well, to see if you would prefer the dice methodology.

 

[Grey]

Tulik was pretty on the money for the negotiated angle - discuss stakes, acceptable failure states, and narrative implications with everyone ahead of time and then play it out. That requires a group of people who are willing to work together and put the story before their ego.

If you have GM, similarly you have to be able to trust their arbitration. They're usually guiding the story, and in particular they're often in control of antagonist forces, so the important distinction there is - are they managing players fighting each other, or the antagonist? If it's players against each other, you're basically deferring to the GM's sense of fairness and balance. If it's the players against NPCs, the GM will probably discuss the narrative outcome ahead of time and find a satisfying way to script the win/loss/draw.

When you bring dice in, you get some extra levers.
For example, I was running a very successful RP for a few years where the players decided to play non-canon fights against each other.
I didn't need to be involved in that; they knew how the rules worked, so they played out the fights knowing that ultimately the result hinged on their decisions and luck. And they could tilt their luck by being clever.

When it comes to players vs. world using dice, the GM can use the dice as an extra layer of impartiality and, perhaps more importantly, uncertainty. Sometimes everyone involved can be surprised by, for example, someone losing an eye, and then together we get to play out what that means to the character, how it affects their goals and relationships.

 

[Grey]

Based on everything I’ve seen in Grey’s posts though I’d love to give his systems a try. Perhaps it would be a good idea for you to do songs well, to see if you would prefer the dice methodology.

Aw, thanks for that.
You're both welcome next time I'm spooling something up.

 

[Tulik]

Aw, thanks for that.
You're both welcome next time I'm spooling something up.

hold you to to that.

 

[Beckoncall]

I too use dice modified by what I know about the relative characters advantages and disadvantages. If it's a strategic-level battle, the quality of the plan would play a big factor in modifying the dice to see how everything shakes out.

I have an RP where I use dice behind the scenes to process the success and failure of countless little details in a scenario (it's about players leading hordes of zombies against NPC survivors)
and dice works great. In my game where gods fight gods, I have "Domains" like some gods are gods of growth or death, or the sun, or whatever and the presence of your domains or lack of them has an impact on your overall power so even if two people are badasses there is a whole rock/paper/scissors dynamic for where they are fighting. In a graveyard? Death domain. on a farm? Growth. etc,

 

[Crenando]

Book it like pro wrestling. If you want to tell a story using action, plan out what those actions are, and work out the specifics along the way. Like pro wrestling, it also helps bring out people who are real drama queens that refuse to lose, which aren't people you want in your RP to begin with.

Dice are fine for tabletop systems, but I don't think they're always conducive to satisfying writing. That's why some popular podcasts script and plan things to give the illusion of it being a game rather than just playing the game.

 

[Onmyoji]

If you don't want to incorporate full dice sustem, at a bare minimum you can let dice decide who wins the battle and let the players write it out as they want when they know the result. Or if they write about some special attack can use dice to determine the success of it. I've done that and it worked well enough for the rp where it was used (it was a Naruto rp lol) it gives writing freedom to players while still putting restrictions. Not everyone will like that so may not work for your group.