Other Explaining Why People Don't Just Live Forever

[Jaye]

So I've been world-building a high fantasy world basically from the ground up. Long-slog but I'm getting there. It is, primarily, a setting intended for dice roleplaying (specifically FATE Core).


Now, after creating the magic system, I came across an odd problem. See there's a type of magic called "White Magic" that is essentially "Lifeforce Magic". It's healing magic (think the cleric sort of class or any MMO healer) but it's also necromancy. Because I wanted to point out that both were sort of similar, essentially.


But... that means I have a force in the fantasy world that can keep someone alive - really truly alive (if you just constantly 'heal' death) - forever.


So... Why do people die?


A friend I consulted suggested that there was some material price to using magic, but honestly I've never particularly liked that sort of system (think DnD's spell components).


I've been trying to imply that most societies believe that death is the natural order of things and that there's a strong taboo against immortality. (For instance, their deities are immortal and that's seen as a grave sacrifice that the deities make for the good of their people).


Does anyone have any other suggestions? Any opinions on the above ideas? I have a short doc about the fantasy-people's belief that death is the natural order, if anyone wants that.

 

[Umbrie]

maybe every resurrection resets the trained muscle memory of the character. meaning they have to go through intensive physical therapy and relearn to perform physical actions in a manner akin to awakening from a coma.


or maybe you can apply resurrection sickness. sure, you get to come back, but you are afflicted with special penalties for a month, and if you die while these penalties are accrued, you truly are dead.

 

[_Line 213]

I'd need to know more about the way that magic actually works in your setting to be of better help.


The idea that pops into my head immediately is that "Lifeforce" magic or whatever it is merely heals injury by rejoining tissue that has been split, or purging things from the body that shouldn't be there. Turning back biological time by reversing the aging process would be impossible, because that has nothing to do with rejoining and repairing separated tissue.

 

[Lost Swordlance]

Someone who is able to attain immortality will be very powerful. So it doesn't apply to a whole lot of people. Those very powerful will certainly die against other powerful being in which case they will probably have some way to truly kill the guy. 


I've made a village in D&D which was using a powerful artifact to stay immortal and it was fine. They died under the steel of a group of powerful paladins. 

 

[Silanon]

It all depends on the way magic works, really. First thing that comes into mind: Availability. How many people can actually cast those powerful spells? In most worlds, only a handful of beings have access to this kind of magic. If, in addition, these rituals take their time, as it's usually the case, they simply could not keep up with the numbers of people dying.


Secondly, you can heal and ressurect a body as often as you want - at some point, the mind in it grows tired of the world. You've seen enough foolishness, hatred, and have seen all those little, beautiful things often enough - there is no point to go through it again and again.


Another idea is based on the deities you mentioned: I wouldn't say it's necessary to make it a taboo - simply make the temptations of an afterlife too strong to resist over time. A holy paladin dies in an honorable fashion, his deity invites him to join his feast - how would he ever reject the offer? The simple man lives his hard life, finally dies - and gets offered a life in peace and without hard work. A manipulator gets invited by the goddess of spiders to play the game of intrigues with those others she found worthy before. Just a few examples, probably not the best ones. Hope they showcase my idea a bit. Basically, let deaths matter to the person who dies. Give them a reason to get angry at those who ressurect them, call their deity's wrath upon them, whatever you can think of - then ressurection likely would be reserved for a few souls who are devoted enough to their cause to forgo their own comfort for the sake of others.

 

[Grey]

Why not just lean into the idea? What is the logical end-point of societies in this setting where death holds no dominion? It's fantasy, afterall, one might as well find the limits and push.

 

[wonderandawe]

I had a similar magic system created where Healing and Necromancy were two sides of the same coin.  Basically both kinds of magic where just redirecting life force.   


I had two things to stop people from living forever:


1.  You can't create energy, only move it.  A healer uses their own energy or the energy of the person to heal.  A necromancy seats a portion of their own energy into the corpse to raise it from the dead.  


2.  You can only use energy from other humans.  You can eat animals to gain their energy but you can't move it with magic.  The Undead need to feed off of humans because they lost the ability to convert plants and animals into energy.  A necromancy or a healer always has cold hands after a working.  


As you get older, your ability to process energy diminishes, thus why you age.  

 

[Jaye]

Hm, these are all super useful ideas, thank you.


I suppose part of my problem is that I don't have an afterlife (yet)? They deities are normal people who became immortal for ~reasons~. Like, they're rumoured to have created the world but... hm, no actually maybe I could lean into making an afterlife out of them. I'll have to think on that further.


How many people can cast it, and casting time are also super good ideas. I certainly like the idea of true resurrection taking significant time. Kinda like the "you have to pay" option but... but I like it better  Also this actually helps explain undead, which is cool. Undead are resurrected fast, but resurrected mostly mindless. True resurrection takes time.


This has given me a lot to think on, thank you all 

 

[Saccharine Cyanide]

If the society believes that immortality is immoral, wouldn't people just use the loophole of living for a very, very long time but insisting that they'll choose to stop using magic and die eventually? Is there a certain cut-off age where people are expected to die and using healing magic is considered immoral? Is healing magic itself actually considered immoral because it interferes with the natural order? (That would make for a really interesting premise!)

 

[Birdsie]

Think about how an old person acts and why.


Oh, and we'd all go insane sooner or later.

 

[Windsock]

"Dad, why do people die in our magic fantasy world?"


"The gods fucking say so, now eat your porridge."

 

[Scatterbrain]

So... Why do people die?

Technically it's a question of overpopulation and finite resources. If we all lived forever, the planet or world (one could argue in this case) would eventually be unable to support us anymore. We're struggling to support ourselves as a species at the moment, imagine how bad it would be if everyone who was ever born was still around today. 

 

[Mykinkaiser]

You could also have it based on a mounting cost system. Basically, the more you "heal" death, the more it costs until no one can actually pay that cost anymore and the person has to stay dead.

 

[Kittenkitten]

Did you want more factual based reasonings? I remember distinctly getting an answer wrong on my interim Exam (EMT class) where it's like, "When is the body at it's prime/when does it start decaying in functioning?", something of the sort.
Well, I thought, hmm, 20-25? No, it's like 18-20. So, as we grow older our body is consistently getting worse. I can go into a lot of factual stuff but I'm uncertain if that is what you are asking for.
I mean, gotta keep those organs healed and functioning. I'm sorry if this is no help. 

(Is this helpful information? I just don't know. It's from my study book.)

 

[Beckoncall]

Worlds where immortals can exist inevitably will contain beings that have been immortal for a VERY long time. As such, maybe these beings, however few or numerous, relish the life force of lesser immortals... think of blood for them like we age wine. 


These "Eaters of Gods" are the natural check in the order of things for mages that seek to live forever... the more unnaturally aged you become, the stronger you attract ancient immortal mages that exclusively draw sustenance from would be ever-living. Becoming very very old may be possible, but one would have to learn out the nature of God eaters and make themselves progressively more obscure so as not to attract them-- powerful life/death mages in their own right, normal ever-living would stand no chance against them. 


Maybe godeaters hide their essences in ancient relics, things would-be immortals are likely to collect. Maybe they simply appear behind you from a dimension they fled to that suppresses their hunger until somebody gets powerful or old enough to not escape notice. 


Maybe in a bygone era they turned themselves into mysterious statues all over the planet- cities rising up around them, civilizations falling without so much as one worthy morsel...


...until there is. Problem solved.

 

[Ranix Aurus]

You'll need to define immortality first, and how the magic works to grant it. Is it mere immortality as passive effect, where your body just can't die (regenerating all over again), or it's a cast of magic, like how you cast revive or use phoenix down to revive someone in a game?


If it's the former, then there's no point to ask why would someone die. Because they shouldn't. Those who die are simply because they don't have access to this immortality power. What if everyone has it? Then nobody die. That's just how the world is. The concept of death, from the start, is not a necessity.


If it's the latter, then people die because nobody else around can cast the magic and/or use the item to revive them. It will happen. Let's say 5 people group together so that if someone died, the others will revive them. What if they all died at the same time? Or, one of them betrayed the group and kill the rest? In this case immortality is a fragile concept that can be prevented very easily. Add more condition like requiring the corpse intact to successfully revive or can only revive in the first two days after death, and you have a possible-but-preventable immortality system.