Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
What is love, eh? Damn Star Trek and all it's uses. Lol and no, you don't have infinite persuasive power. Everyone who's ever seen any Star Trek will know the Kahn jokes ^^; I knew it when I was thirteen.
Exaltred Second Edition
- Thread starter Lotus1
- Start date
Samiel
One Thousand Club
Yar, Second Ed ahoy. I got mine last month sooner than I'd expected, converted all my players, and I'm eagerly waiting to leave downtime so I can give it a real rundown.
Unfortunately, I have exams. Ones for which I am ill prepared. So, my next game runs on the 28th May, which is far away from where I'm standing.
I like the setting parts of the book: They are more comprehensive with regard to the realm and they give a good rundown of the threshold. However, I am again slightly disappointed that they left out locations on the Blessed Isle.
The combat system looks great to me: the lack of a run-up-run-down-and-then-run-in-circles initiative declaration and action system is NOT sorely missed. The tick system, though untried, should hopefully be much smoother. And there are now good and decent rules for things like field medicine, severing an opponent's nose, and disarming effectively.
Still no word on advantages/disadvantages of dual-wielding though, which is a pity as there are some nice dual daiklaives at the back that can be bought singly as well for half the price; why buy two if the stats are the same?
The mass combat system seems smooth and effective to me, and it is an extension of existing rules rather than a mini game in itself, so it should be easy to integrate.
The Social combat system I am undecided upon; not because I don't think there should be such a system but because it is perhaps too cumbersome to be easily integrated, although I have yet to prove or disprove this accusation.
The only place I begin to be even slightly apprehensive is with the new charms. The trees, as previously mentioned, are shite. They don't follow a logical or pleasing aesthetic, instead swimming around the page connected by arbitrary lines.
I could get over that, but the charm system has been complicated more than I'd like; there are now a lot of keywords that can be assigned to the charms, which is intended to clarify their function. However, in many cases the definitions of these keywords and their specific effects are poorly described.
"Crippling" for example, is a keyword applied to some attack charms, however it doesn't adequately describe how this keyword really affects the attack. In most "Crippling" charms, the description of effects is left to the charm text.
Even the keywords aren't the worst bit: The essence requirements for some of the old 1st ed conversions have been bumped up. To get the old Wyld-shaping technique, you now need essence 4. Although it has more comprehensive and favourable rules now, you can keep using it as long as you stunt or have "cult" to get willpower back (4 hour intervals allow essence recovery between uses) and the dice pool is Int+Lore.
Other charms have the same requirements but got nerfed. Memory reweaving discipline in the old game should have had one restriction: Either people get to resist/shake off the effects eventually, or it doesn't work on people with higher essence, or something. In 2nd ed, it has two such reductions: Now you must beat someone's MDV (Admittably not hard in most cases), AND they can shake it off with willpower.
Which brings me to a final gripe: It doesn't define when people can and will spend willpower to resist mental effects. Essentially, if an ST is of a mind, he can thwart an excellent speech supplemented by a powerful charm by spending 3/4 WP for everyone in the crowd, and have them go home unmoved. In my case, I'd say that unless the speech/argument went against an intimacy/motivation/personal safety, they can't spend willpower to resist unnatural effects, but no-where in the book does it give such guidelines.
Now, for all that complaining, there are a great number of charm improvements. Lets not discount how great the excellencies are for every tree. And the two "excellency improver" charms are key to combat mastery at essence 4; automatic 5 successes/10 dice for free on every melee action for the scene without using charms: 20 motes at the start of the fight.
Also, there are no speedbumps in the new trees. Many trees are in fact much reduced in size: the stealth tree (not including excellencies, which are not prerequisites in this case) is 4 charms long!
And many of the new charms are great, to give credit. The training charms, in particular, are quite good. Tiger-warrior-training-technique, one of my favourites from 1st ed, is now back with a different style. Rather than bringing all subjects up to a set template, each week of use now adds a dot to one of the physical attributes, combat abilities, valour or Drill (Drill is great).
You can also use Tiger-Tech on yourself. Although you still must spend xp, it allows you to largely ignore the long training times for attributes.
There is another trainer charm in the lore tree for almost everything else, and I believe it's easier to get, too. And you can use it on yourself as with the above.
There's a new power awarding prana: Now you commit an exorbitant amount (15), and the target gets ess2, tmp ess 15 and the ability to learn solar charms at the normal cost. They recover essence normally, and as long as you keep the mote commitment, they can use their charms normally. Although it's ambiguous on this, I'm assuming that the target keeps the charms they learned if the commitment is removed, they simply can't use them until re-committed. Powerful lieutenants, ho.
And there is finally an essence-pool booster for solars, although it's a bit restrictive if you asketh me. Best used with commitment charms like PAP, as it's more difficult to regenerate the motes gained from that pool.
I'll stop ranting. Overall, I love the new edition, and most of my fears and pet hates about it were allayed upon reading and understanding the new way of doing things. Solars should have been a bit more powerful, and the reflexive excellencies is going to boost DBs more than I'd like, but overall I think it streamlines and polishes the game quite well.
I am now eagerly awaiting new material for it. That leech Voidstate got his books for free by posting a donation clicker on his site: The pages better be worth it, grrr.
And I cannot wait for a new Anathema. More derived values means more laziness on my part.
To people who don't have a copy (I'm looking at you, Obsidian): Get one and enjoy it. You don't have to use it, but don't cast it aside without reading it first. Just watch the binding, WW make crap binding.
This was waay longer than I'd initially intended. Hope it helps in some way.. Now, it is AWAY to study for me.. expect intermittant posts at best for the next month or two. And I'll probably be mad then @_@
Farewell true believers.
Unfortunately, I have exams. Ones for which I am ill prepared. So, my next game runs on the 28th May, which is far away from where I'm standing.
I like the setting parts of the book: They are more comprehensive with regard to the realm and they give a good rundown of the threshold. However, I am again slightly disappointed that they left out locations on the Blessed Isle.
The combat system looks great to me: the lack of a run-up-run-down-and-then-run-in-circles initiative declaration and action system is NOT sorely missed. The tick system, though untried, should hopefully be much smoother. And there are now good and decent rules for things like field medicine, severing an opponent's nose, and disarming effectively.
Still no word on advantages/disadvantages of dual-wielding though, which is a pity as there are some nice dual daiklaives at the back that can be bought singly as well for half the price; why buy two if the stats are the same?
The mass combat system seems smooth and effective to me, and it is an extension of existing rules rather than a mini game in itself, so it should be easy to integrate.
The Social combat system I am undecided upon; not because I don't think there should be such a system but because it is perhaps too cumbersome to be easily integrated, although I have yet to prove or disprove this accusation.
The only place I begin to be even slightly apprehensive is with the new charms. The trees, as previously mentioned, are shite. They don't follow a logical or pleasing aesthetic, instead swimming around the page connected by arbitrary lines.
I could get over that, but the charm system has been complicated more than I'd like; there are now a lot of keywords that can be assigned to the charms, which is intended to clarify their function. However, in many cases the definitions of these keywords and their specific effects are poorly described.
"Crippling" for example, is a keyword applied to some attack charms, however it doesn't adequately describe how this keyword really affects the attack. In most "Crippling" charms, the description of effects is left to the charm text.
Even the keywords aren't the worst bit: The essence requirements for some of the old 1st ed conversions have been bumped up. To get the old Wyld-shaping technique, you now need essence 4. Although it has more comprehensive and favourable rules now, you can keep using it as long as you stunt or have "cult" to get willpower back (4 hour intervals allow essence recovery between uses) and the dice pool is Int+Lore.
Other charms have the same requirements but got nerfed. Memory reweaving discipline in the old game should have had one restriction: Either people get to resist/shake off the effects eventually, or it doesn't work on people with higher essence, or something. In 2nd ed, it has two such reductions: Now you must beat someone's MDV (Admittably not hard in most cases), AND they can shake it off with willpower.
Which brings me to a final gripe: It doesn't define when people can and will spend willpower to resist mental effects. Essentially, if an ST is of a mind, he can thwart an excellent speech supplemented by a powerful charm by spending 3/4 WP for everyone in the crowd, and have them go home unmoved. In my case, I'd say that unless the speech/argument went against an intimacy/motivation/personal safety, they can't spend willpower to resist unnatural effects, but no-where in the book does it give such guidelines.
Now, for all that complaining, there are a great number of charm improvements. Lets not discount how great the excellencies are for every tree. And the two "excellency improver" charms are key to combat mastery at essence 4; automatic 5 successes/10 dice for free on every melee action for the scene without using charms: 20 motes at the start of the fight.
Also, there are no speedbumps in the new trees. Many trees are in fact much reduced in size: the stealth tree (not including excellencies, which are not prerequisites in this case) is 4 charms long!
And many of the new charms are great, to give credit. The training charms, in particular, are quite good. Tiger-warrior-training-technique, one of my favourites from 1st ed, is now back with a different style. Rather than bringing all subjects up to a set template, each week of use now adds a dot to one of the physical attributes, combat abilities, valour or Drill (Drill is great).
You can also use Tiger-Tech on yourself. Although you still must spend xp, it allows you to largely ignore the long training times for attributes.
There is another trainer charm in the lore tree for almost everything else, and I believe it's easier to get, too. And you can use it on yourself as with the above.
There's a new power awarding prana: Now you commit an exorbitant amount (15), and the target gets ess2, tmp ess 15 and the ability to learn solar charms at the normal cost. They recover essence normally, and as long as you keep the mote commitment, they can use their charms normally. Although it's ambiguous on this, I'm assuming that the target keeps the charms they learned if the commitment is removed, they simply can't use them until re-committed. Powerful lieutenants, ho.
And there is finally an essence-pool booster for solars, although it's a bit restrictive if you asketh me. Best used with commitment charms like PAP, as it's more difficult to regenerate the motes gained from that pool.
I'll stop ranting. Overall, I love the new edition, and most of my fears and pet hates about it were allayed upon reading and understanding the new way of doing things. Solars should have been a bit more powerful, and the reflexive excellencies is going to boost DBs more than I'd like, but overall I think it streamlines and polishes the game quite well.
I am now eagerly awaiting new material for it. That leech Voidstate got his books for free by posting a donation clicker on his site: The pages better be worth it, grrr.
And I cannot wait for a new Anathema. More derived values means more laziness on my part.
To people who don't have a copy (I'm looking at you, Obsidian): Get one and enjoy it. You don't have to use it, but don't cast it aside without reading it first. Just watch the binding, WW make crap binding.
This was waay longer than I'd initially intended. Hope it helps in some way.. Now, it is AWAY to study for me.. expect intermittant posts at best for the next month or two. And I'll probably be mad then @_@
Farewell true believers.
Flagg
The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment
That takes some balls. I'm fairly certain that it's technically a violation of WWs Terms of Use.Samiel said:
-S
G
Guest
Guest
What's wrong with Voidstate? Just curious. I've never had a problem with him, one of the few WW groupies... er.. forumites that I haven't. He makes good charactr sheets too, not as good as Mr Gone, but good. His are a bit too cluttered.Samiel said:
And as for the binding, that's another thing making me hesitant to buy. So far the only physical copy I've seen (for only 10 minutes) had really, really bad binding. I never thought WW could find a worse bookbinder than their one in Canada... the Chinese proved me wrong. I'd already bought the original core 3 times before I got a copy where the spine didn't break and pages didn't fall out.
Plus, that 10 minutes was not enough time to really look the book over. Don't know if it's my cup of tea yet. The back section really DID look like a Super NES Game Manual, like Chrono Trigger or something. It's got a much more anime feel and look now, which is ok, but I kind like the "you got your anime in my greek myth" feel of the original.
I almost ordered it and the STC online from Amazon last night, but took them out of the cart before placing the final order. I don't want to order it until I know more, how hard it will be to convert my current game over if Ilike it enough (mixed Exalts, so I'm gonna be pulling 3/5 player's upgrades out of my ass). Stuff like that.
Wish one of the local stores carried it regularly. But they don't. D&D, CoC, and Warhammer 40K is all I have around here. And it would be rude to ask my FLGS to order me a copy, then look it over when it came in and decide I don't want it after all.
And something about the tick system still bugs me. Don't know why.
Silence In Daylight
One Thousand Club
The non-Solar converts aren't that hard, except for Lunars, Fair Folk/MF, and Alchemicals--the SC has a fairly large number of converted charms to give one a foundation for other charm conversions.
memesis
One Thousand Club
Advantages of dual-wielding dissimilar weapons: Â You can min-max your various ratings (Accuracy/Damage for primary weapon, Defense/Rate for off-hand - try a Perfect quality punch dagger sometime, for a Defense rating of +5).Samiel said:
Advantages of dual-wielding identical weapons: Â If someone successfully disarms you, there's no need to Flurry a "ready weapon" action, or waste time using one, in order to immediately be armed (in other words, you will always have a viable Parry DV).
This may not be important to your Uber Melee Dawn whose best friend is Call the Blade, but it is important to many people.
The Social Combat rules specify when Willpower can be spent, and many of the Charms explicitly interact with Social Combat mechanics to some degree (sorry, Stillborn!)Samiel said:
Further, the crowd of typical Extras who spend 3-4 Willpower points is now out of Willpower. Â They will most certainly not be going home unmoved. Â If you really must break down someone's resistance until they submit, that's called brainwashing - go watch "V For Vendetta" for an example of this. Â If, however, you want to get results, you give a speech or otherwise present your case in a way that's harmonious with your audience's ideals and beliefs. Â Then they won't resist, and you can modify their Intimacies or compel action or do whatever you wanted to do.
Flagg
The Most Electrifying Man in Sports Entertainment
Ah, sweet vindication!memesis said:
I mean... fuck! That sucks.
-S
memesis
One Thousand Club
However, the social combat rules make my dick hard. Â They don't conflict with the normal combat system except where they need to (like how damage works) and the actual mechanics that Charms reference don't require that you plow through a whole 'social battle' to use - just throw some dice and you're done.Stillborn said:
Silence In Daylight
One Thousand Club
 And even if they're not out of Willpower, changing tacks during the speech and hitting multiple topics--charming each time--can be used to really drain their willpower. Granted, this was taken from that sample session of the guy raving about 2nd Ed, and I'm not sure how strictly they were playing by the rules...memesis said:
memesis
One Thousand Club
That's valid. Â As long as your audience is still participating in social combat, you can do that.
lowguppy
Junior Member
Of all the threads, how did this one get back on topic after 23 pages?
Cthulhu_Wakes
Black Sun in a White World
Magic.
Silence In Daylight
One Thousand Club
Temporary triumph of order over chaos.
Don't worry about the lack of detail on Crippling and other such keywords. They're not meant to have detail. The point of many of them is just to allow other effects and rules to reference the keyword.Samiel said:
Most keywords fill a rules niche where you can go "is this [whatever]: yes or no?" So I want to combo a charm: is it Comb-OK? I want to waste the enemies of Creation: is my effect Holy? I lay the smackdown with a charm: was it Obvious? In each case the details are mostly up to the play group; if you don't want to stunt you can just say "that's an Obvious charm, btw."
Crippling is not intended to affect the attack in any particular way; indeed, that would unreasonably limit the imagination of the player IMO. Crippling is there so that, for example, Unbreakable Warrior's Mastery can perfectly defend against Crippling effects without having paragraphs of text saying "effects such as crushed tendons, severed or broken limbs, mangled nerves, but not magical or venomous paralysis, blah blah blah".
G
Guest
Guest
I broke down and ordered it and the STC on Amazon today. Same price as just the core that way. Had enough people here tell me it's at least as good as the original, and a few that if I hate it, they'd buy it off me.
Now I just have to wait on super saver shipping.
Forn Clakes
ECR Refugee
The return of your friendly, neibourhood Greater God of Breakfast Cereals.lowguppy said:
Need you ask  8)
~FC.
Bodhisattva
Junior Member
I'm very eager to start playing Second Edition with someone, but alas, no gamers in my immediate area. Â 
Silence In Daylight
One Thousand Club
How north of Chicago are you?
 If you're anywhere near Evanston, I find it very hard to believe that Northwestern has no gamers...
 If you're anywhere near Evanston, I find it very hard to believe that Northwestern has no gamers...
Bodhisattva
Junior Member
About 30 miles or so from Northwestern.
Bodhisattva
Junior Member
Need locals to game with! Â I haven't been able to play with 2nd Edition at all, and I was the Storyteller for all the Exalted I've played before, so I'm sure I'm not quite as up to speed with the game as everyone here. Â I wanna play!
Silence In Daylight
One Thousand Club
If you're truly desperate, trolling around your FLGS is always an option of last resort...