[Emperors of the Fading Suns] [Emperors of the Fading Suns] OOC Thread

[cyl]

The "status improvement" argument is clearly something Malek would say to support the "necessity" argument.


Not sure how much credit Mirror grants him in terms of strategy though.

 

[Arynne]

OK, I'm having a problem I frequently have with my characters, which is that characterization is coming into conflict with optimization.


From a characterization point of view, she should decline magitech battle gear until all her soldiers can be properly equipped, and then choose a suit of battle armor, since she's a general who leads from the front.


From an optimization point of view, this is not a good use of resources as soldiers just aren't worth that much, mechanically, no matter how well trained or armed. And for a Celestial Exalted to lead an army is a waste of time when she can do more damage on her own.


I feel conflicted.

 

[cyl]

If I may, you just need a different approach of the problem IMHO.


What is the kind of wars you want Flicker to win ? How strong and powerful does she needs to be ?


Mortal realm vs mortal / equivalent to mortal realm ?


Or "oh gods, oh gods the Mask of Winters, the Juggernaut, his fleet of skyships he looted from Lookshy, a few of his deathknights and his gazillion zombies and war ghosts he gathered on the way up here are invading our lands, please save our souls from Oblivion !!!" ?


In one scenario, well equipped mortals will make a difference, in the other, their equipment as well as their presence will count for a few minutes... at best.


It's more about strategy and teamwork IMHO than mechanics or style.


I'd recommend analyzing what we have in the group, talking with the other guys, and determining who does what when we're in battle.


The way I see it there are three types of positions in a battle a hero can have:


- Destroyer (Fangs / Juggernaut) : does a lot of damage on a wide range but has limits (fatigue, motes, mobility, speed, number of shots... whatever). You're the one who crush the enemy's little guys, you destroy the castle, every move you make breaks that particular patch of Creation.


Advantage: fun !


Inconvenient: makes you a prime target pretty much all the time, and once/if you're spent, you've pretty much exhausted your usefulness. (warstriders are the only execption because they deal damage as long as they can stand)


- Elite assassin (Void Heart / Mirror) : does a lot of damage on a lesser but more focused scale. You take on the big guys one on one and when you're done you leave the rest of the army an uncoordinated mess for your guys to sweep off.


Advantage: fun and strategically useful


Inconvenient: going after the big guys will expose you to danger and after the enemy spots you, you're going to be a prime target because even if you do less damage than the destroyer, the damage you do will make the enemy incapable of fighting battles afterwards, even if he wins this one.


- Sarge (Legion) : you do the crowd control, the heavy lifting, the fighting in the dirt. When the other guy tries to make a move, you and your buddies go stop him.


Advantage: extremely useful in a battle to maintain strategic positions, distract the enemy, and protect the destroyer and the elite assassin


Inconvenient: not as fun as the other two, you're going to see a lot of people die around you, your troops are going to be a prime target for the enemy's destroyer, they're going to be a hell to maintain (remember how Malek distracted Legion's war ghosts) and you're going to be a prime target for the enemy's elite assassin. (remember how easily Walker made Legion go away).


In most wars, all three have their roles to play, but I'm afraid that in the epic battles that await the Sarge and his men are going to be really inferior in effectiveness and usefulness.


Nothing states that you can't do a bit of everything, but we all know exalts excel when they're focused.


Here's my analysis on Malek:


He will never be a Destroyer until he has land ships and heavy artillery ready, and he depends on Siham for that.


He will never be an Assassin either, it's way too late in the game for him to go there.


He can already be a decent Sarge, he just lacks durability but otherwise has good means to get the job done.

 

[cyl]

Something weird happened in my post a whole section just went away.


Here goes:


As for magitech, since you're choosing the Sarge role as well, both you and your men are equally important.


They will be useful as long as you still stand, and you will be useful as long as they still stand.


It's not a question of who gets the good stuff first, you both need top notch equipment to play your part together.


Your ability to inflict damage is really secondary, since the Sarge's job is to endure whatever the Destroyer and the Assassin will throw at him and his troops without falling to your knees or breaking ranks.


That being said, you're not the only Sarge in the team, so we can share the costs of equipping our men.

 

[CrazyIvan]

Proper physical training actually causes a lot of the boob to shrink, as it's mostly fatty tissues.

Not in Exalted it doesn't.

Flicker probably wouldn't say "We must do this to increase my own standing" but she would argue that this will certainly raise the standing of the Exalts of Cross, as a whole, with people who count. Not to mention hero hunters being a general threat and a nuisance everyone benefits from seeing removed.

That would seem reasonable to Fangs. While she doesn't think she owes Flicker anything for Ankss (them not all being dead is Fangs' favor to her), it seems like a reasonable thing to do.

OK, I'm having a problem I frequently have with my characters, which is that characterization is coming into conflict with optimization.
From a characterization point of view, she should decline magitech battle gear until all her soldiers can be properly equipped, and then choose a suit of battle armor, since she's a general who leads from the front.


From an optimization point of view, this is not a good use of resources as soldiers just aren't worth that much, mechanically, no matter how well trained or armed. And for a Celestial Exalted to lead an army is a waste of time when she can do more damage on her own.


I feel conflicted.

Define "properly equipped"? Are we remembering that Fangs left two demon smiths (and their neomah companion) in the Cross producing shit for them?

 

[Arynne]

Flicker wants ashigaru and gunzoshas.

 

[xarvh]

The Mass Combat rules were done to make improving your troops a viable option even in high-end conflicts.


I'm more than willing to revise them though.

 

[cyl]

The main issue I had with those rules was AoE spell damage which makes armor for soldiers unefficient, or at least really less efficient than it should IIRC.


But in a world when spells can throw 40+ dice of raw dmg on a zone, numbers and armors are bound to be less efficient in the beginning of a battle. The trick is to have enough numbers to have the troops take the blows and still be able to perform afterwards.


That and of course big guns to inflict similar casualties to the enemy.

 

[Arynne]

That's why Flicker has Moonlight Curtain Drawn -- it doubles the Magnitude of an army when defending.

 

[cyl]

Spell damage is based on the unit's Magnitude... so I had this funny image in my head of Flicker using this charm and her whole unit going KA-BOOM

 

[cyl]

Now that I think about it, you know what would be great in a battle ?


Friggin earthbending !


Gotta find me a God or an Elemental Dragon to teach me !

 

[xarvh]

@cyl: that wouldnt happen.


Earth Dragon Armor does earthbending.

 

[xarvh]

Also, the forum migration killed my answer to Fangs and I will have to redo some wankery for the forum WTF I'm hating this place so much.

 

[cyl]

@cyl: that wouldnt happen.

Obviously not, you have enough common sense for it not to happen.


It was more of a cartoonesque image that made me laugh... I'm a big fan of the stupid Coyote !

Earth Dragon Armor does earthbending.

Yeah but it is more fun if it comes from the character.

 

[Arynne]

There's also a hearthstone that does it.

 

[xarvh]

Summon elemental?

 

[Arynne]

I have a new artifact power in my head, but I'm not sure how it would work. It's a sort of stealth power, but it blocks (or at least interferes with) attempts by attackers on the enemy side to identify you as a commander and target you. It blocks mundane attempts completely and raises the difficulty on Charm-backed attempts...

 

[Feantari]

DB war charms :cool:

 

[JayTee]

That seems like something you could do better with your shapeshifting powers. Kill the commander, take his place and wreak havoc on their ability to be an effect

 

[Arynne]

Doesn't work like that. I can't take a person's shape without learning the proper ritual first, and then I have to spend several hours stalking them, killing them and cannibalizing them. :tongue:

 

[xarvh]

Changing Moons FTW!

 

[Arynne]

Changing Moons and Lunars with moonsilver CBS...

 

[JayTee]

I'm really looking forward to 3rd edition where lunar shapeshifting will apparently not be so wonky.

 

[cyl]

You've got a few interesting disguises charms in the GotMH:Luna.


One lets you appear to be anything but yourself


Another lets you take the appearance of someone one targets wishes to see (useful in desperate battle conditions to finish a unit off).


And the last one gives you the ability to appear to be what a target expects to see (ie: a fellow soldier, or a commander, and that work on both sides of the front line).

 

[xarvh]

@JayTee: Yup, 3ed is this sort of Holy Grail were everything will bunnies and rainbows. The work I saw so far is very promising, hope they are done soon.