Diceless Combat System

[Saturnity]

Hello friends!


Like my title hinted to, I'm currently trying my hand at developing a combat system that, instead of using dice, focuses around a point management system instead. I've never actually tried creating a new system before, and I'm not familiar with any other diceless systems that would be similar to mine, so I'm having some trouble with certain aspects of it, number crunching, etc. What I'm hoping to find here is a bit of advice, links to resources, and maybe some lovely people to team up with me and whittle down a polished system and stress test it with me.


I already have the barebones idea written down, which I'll post below, but I really need to know honest opinions to see if something like this can actually work. I feel like with the right tweaks it could, but I just don't know enough about roleplay combat systems to make a sound judgement myself. Here is what I have so far. (Values marked as "X" are simply placeholders)

Spoiler

Stats


Might=Strength+Defense (Strike, Lift, Push, Parry, Break)


Fortitude= Willpower+Endurance (Block, Carry, Resist, Run, Overwhelm)


Sense=Intelligence+Perception (Recall, Memorize, Plan, Interpret, Scrutinize)


Control=Dexterity+Speed (Dash, Dodge, Feint, Catch, Jump)


Fortune=Charisma+Luck (Lie, Charm, Intimidate, Chance, Provoke)


Attributes


Vitality (HP)= Character's Age (Max=25) + Fortitude


Fatigue (SP)= Might + Control


Energy (MP)= Sense + Battery Value


Melee Damage= Might + Weapon modifier


Ranged Damage= Control + Weapon Modifier


Psionic Damage= Sense* Ability Modifier


Experience Requirement= Total value of stats combined.


For the set of five stats, players are given X AP (Attribute Points) which they are able to allocate freely without dice rolls. All base stats have a ceiling of X points, and AP is earned through action/reaction and ability usage. In order to earn AP, you must successfully use actions/reactions and abilities associated with your stats a number of times equal to the total added value of your stats. For instance, if you have 9 total allocated points, you must use an action a total of 9 times to get another AP, 10 times the next AP, and so on.


Actions/Reactions are used by the player in any given situation, and are associated with only a single attribute. For example, lifting an object is based on Might, while dodging an attack is based on Control.


Abilities are unique character skills that may utilize multiple stats but can only be used once per round. A special characteristic of abilities is that they count toward experience for EACH ability their associated with. For instance, if a player has a Mind Control ability, which I’ll say is associated with the Fortitude and Sense attributes, they would gain 2 Experience for using it once, and would only be able to use it once before it enters a round cooldown. On the other side of the coin, abilities use extra stamina equal to the number of stats they derive from.


Battles are divided up by Rounds, and by Turns.


Round length and details to be determined


In a turn, only a single reaction and a single action can be taken. Reactions are responsive, meaning that the character is responding to an action generated by another player or the GM. Actions are proactive, meaning that the character is performing an ability or attack that another character or NPC must react to. Both Reactions and Actions are optional. Any number of observations can be made about the opponent of the character in the midst of battle.


Examples


Character Stat sheet sample


AP: 9


Might-2


Fortitude-2


Sense-3


Control-1


Fortune-1






Combat


The premise of Combat in the DO universe is around the management of Stamina and Energy, and utilizes a set of Traits.


Traits


These are a set of character values that determine actions and abilities used in the RP


Might: Determines the ability to lift and throw objects, the damage dealt by melee attacks, the ability to break through character defenses, defensive systems, objects, and obstacles using brute force, in addition to the size of weapons your character can effectively wield.


Fortitude: Determines your characters defensive capabilities against attacks, resistance to specific types of damage and environmental conditions, how long your character can sprint for and how much your character can carry without being over-encumbered. Also affects how well your character can resist poison, disease, and other health related problems.


Control: Determines the running speed of a character, the accuracy of thrown and fired weapons, the ability to dodge and parry melee attacks, and a character’s composure in the midst of battle. Also affects the accuracy of many Psionic abilities.


Sense: Determines a character’s ability to memorize and recall information, strategize, see long distances or small objects, the effectiveness of peripheral vision, and anticipate the actions of other characters. Also affects the power of many Psionic abilities.


Fortune: Determines a character’s luck in finding useful or high-quality items and equipment in the field, as well as their charisma and speaking ability. Also affects a character’s chance of finding special passcodes and pieces of intel in the field, and may reduce the difficulty of hacking or stealing. Fortune is generally not involved in combat in any way.


Atrributes


Vitality (HP): This is the amount a damage a character can take until they are killed. Once their HP is reduced to zero, the character is considered dead. A character whose HP is reduced to 1 is rendered incapacitated, and must be given first aid or regular medical attention within 3 turns or else they will bleed out and die. Poisons and illnesses may also reduce a character’s HP.


Fatigue (SP): Determines the number of “Physical” actions a character can make during a combat round. Each attack and ability determined as “Physical” will deduct a certain value of SP. If a player takes an action, but there is not enough SP available, then that action will immediately fail. If a character's SP falls to zero, then that character will fall into a "collapse" state, where they must wait a full turn before taking any actions. Certain items and armor can reduce the amount of SP required to perform actions and abilities, however they may instead deduct from energy, which I will cover next.


Energy (TP): Determines the number of “Technical” actions a character can make during a combat round. Technical actions involve the use of weapons, armors, and other items that require an Tretinium Energy source to use. While TP sources don’t expire, consecutive use can cause a state called “Surge” which occurs when the TP source has overheated and prevents the use of any devices connected to it for a certain amount of time.


Experience (EXP): Experience is gained by a character and allows them to increase the value of their Traits through earning "Ability Points" or "AP". The total experience required to earn a single point of AP is equal to the combined value of a character's Traits.


There are 4 varieties of combat in Dead Oasis, each of which I will cover in detail and list weapons associated with.


Close Quarters(Husks/Persona/Melee weapons)


Ranged (Firearms)


Stationaries, Traps, and Thrown Weaponry (Mines, grenades, etc.)


Psionic Abilities (Telekinesis, Mind Control, etc.)


Close Quarters


CQC involves any Physical action that occurs in a player’s immediate vicinity (1-2 square range). Almost all Close Quarters actions require a deduction of stamina, but depending on the equipment, may require energy as well or instead. Defending against an attack, regardless of the attack’s range, is considered a Close Quarters action.


The traits involved are: Might, Fortitude, Sense, and Control


Weapon types associated are: Knuckles, Blades, Blunts, Polearms, Husks, Persona, N-Tech, Makeshift, and Specialized Weapons.


Ranged


All ranged actions are Technical and classified as being either fired, flung, projected, or launched from a main weapon system or mechanism. Almost all Ranged actions consume energy, although some require stamina instead, such as bows or crossbows. Ranged attacks are based outside a players immediate vicinity, and every Ranged weapon has a maximum reach.


The traits involved are: Sense and Control


Weapon types associated are: Bows and Crossbows, Dartguns, Needleguns, Pistols, Hand Cannons, Rifles, Shotguns, Assault Rifles, Submachine Guns, Light Machine Guns, Machine Guns, AMW’s, Shoulder Mounted Launchers, N-Tech, Makeshift, and Specialized Weapons.


Stationaries, Traps, and Thrown Weapons


Placed in their own categories are all Technical based actions that fall outside CQ and Ranged categories, and are generally “fire and forget, time, or vicinity based” meaning they require weapons that are armed, deployed/thrown, then trigger after a certain amount of time has elapsed or once a target has entered to within a certain range. Generally, traps do not require stamina or energy, while thrown weapons require stamina.


The traits involved are: Might and Control.


The weapon types associated are: Automated turrets, deployable cover, mines, throwing knives, axes, blunts, grenades, caltrops, power fields, energy stations, bombs, patrol beacons, charges, N-Tech, Makeshift and Specialized Weapons.


Psionic Abilities


Another unique category belongs to actions that are mind-based and do not use weapons. Psionic Abilities involve the use of mental energy to perform a variety of actions and can occur in any designated range. There is no common usage or form for Psionic abilities, and they can produce a great number of results depending on the target. They are also able to take the form of Active or Passive Abilities.


The traits involved are: Sense and Control.


The types of Pionic abilities, with descriptions, are:


Telekinesis – The ability to generate force using the mind, to throw, push or otherwise manipulate objects at range.


Telepathy – The ability to sense, manipulate, and/or communicate with the mind of another living being using thoughts.


Telemetry – The ability to measure physical characteristics such as size and speed and transmit that information electronically through a computer or another mind.


Telemorphy – The ability to alter and manipulate the shape and state of an object to appear different by breaking and rearranging molecular bonds.


Teleportation – The ability to instantly transmit physical matter from one location to another.


This is some pretty rough brainstorming, and just about anything is subject to change at any give time. Any alterations that ARE made, I will notate in an update spoiler and then edit or add the information where necessary.


In any case I really appreciate any ideas I can get and will give away all the free cookies I have just to make this work

 

[Javelin434]

Consider doing what I did and check up on D&D combat systems. I based an entire RP guide that I made around that principle [minus the dices of course] and it seems to work rather well.

 

[Saturnity]

Thanks! I'll look into that when I get a chance =)

 

[Grey]

Thanks! I'll look into that when I get a chance =)

I'd argue against that. D&D is finely balanced for use with dice, but more than that, it's also not a great system especially if you plan to use this for a cyberpunk RP. D&D just barely does fantasy well enough.


You're better off looking at Golden Sky Stories, Nobilis, Amber, and the old Marvel Roleplaying Game.

 

[Saturnity]

Alright, I've updated the terms and calculations in the combat system. I don't know how it will work yet in terms of practicality, but hopefully with what I added it will turn alright. Now I need some opinions and potentially people to test it out. I've also decided to restrict the system to my roleplay, Dead Oasis, for now. I may decide to branch out with the system at a later date, but that's all depending on how it works.


I appreciate the help I've received so far =)

 

[Grey]

Is there a scale, actually? Like, what's the human average for any Attribute, what's abnormally weak, what's unusually high? That way you can gate superhuman points behind augmentations.

 

[Saturnity]

Is there a scale, actually? Like, what's the human average for any Attribute, what's abnormally weak, what's unusually high? That way you can gate superhuman points behind augmentations.

I haven't really determined that quite yet. I think that might be one of the things I need to determine through trials.


I believe I sort of locked down a good method for determining a character's HP (Age+Fortitude) but I'm not entirely sure about all of them.


Any ideas on how I should approach it?

 

[Grey]

I'm a big believer in smaller numbers for these kinds of things.


What exactly is the conflict and task resolution model? That'll make it easier to determine.


I presume you spend spend SP in a way that interacts with your Attributes to achieve something? Or your Energy, depending?


I mean, is the model used outside of combat at all?

 

[Saturnity]

Hmmmm.


Okay, so during character generation, players are given a baseline of AP to apply toward their traits. I'll say, for now, that amount of AP is 15.


And to answer your question, yes SP and TP are used in conjunction with Traits, rather like they would be in a video game. If you do not have the amount of either available to use, then your associated action will fail/miss. Traits determine WHAT you are going to do, SP/TP determine IF you can do it.


If you want to climb up a ledge with a might requirement of 3 and your SP is 0, even if you meet the strength requisite, you'll have to find another way up. If your character is wearing something like a Husk Exo, however, they can use TP in place of SP to make the climb. You'd still need to meet the base strength requirements.


Now when it comes to PVE and PVP, the conflict model(I have in mind) is something like this.


Example:


Player A moves to a location and looks for enemies toward the east. Player A spots Player B and aims to shoot.


In this instance the ability to hit Player B is determined through weapon range, if Player A has the TP to spend on firing his weapon, and trait vs. trait .


First I'll cover Player A's attack:


The weapon range we'll say is 7, and Player B is within that range. Check


We move on to TP cost. The TP cost to use the weapon is 2, Player A still has 4 TP left. Check


Now we get to the actual traits. The trait Player A uses when firing the weapon is Sense (accuracy) the trait Player B uses to move out of the way is Control (reaction time). Player A's sense is 4, while Player B's Control is 3. The attack is a hit. Check.


Now for the reaction by Player B:


Say Player B has 2 SP remaining, and they have attempted to dodge the attack by Player A. This uses 1 SP.


Even though the attack was a hit, the fact that they dodged will modify the damage equal to the trait used.


In this case Player B's Control was 3 so the damage is modified by - 3.


Now Player A's firing accuracy is taken into account. Their Sense is 4, so the damage is modified by + 4


Next we take into account the Damage class of the weapon itself, which we'll say is 3. The damage is modified by another +3


Finally we take into account Player B's Armor class which is 1. The damage is modified by - 1.


In the end, the total damage calculation done in the background looks something like this (4 [sense] - 3 [Control] + 3 [Weapon] - 1 [Armor] = 3 Damage)


Now if Player B had no SP left, or chose not to dodge to conserve their SP, they would not have been able to reduce the damage by their Control trait.


Almost all of these calculations would be done by the GM in the background.


Does that seem balanced? Also, I apologize if that was cluttered and hard to read, I was rather writing off the top of of my head.

 

[Grey]

So if I understand correctly, out of combat any obstacle has a value, and if the character's Trait matches or exceeds that value, AND if they have an SP to spend on the action, they can surmount the obstacle?


That's reasonable. I notice you have a social Trait there, though - Fortune and its components (speaking of, do component Traits do anything other than provide the value for the total?). Is that handled the same way, with lying to an NPC having a rating of, for example, 3?


Looking at combat...


Let's assume a minimum Vitality of 27. In that first round, Player B lost 3, down to 24. Assuming the exchanges continue in roughly the same way, that means it will take at least nine rounds of combat before Player B is defeated, depending on resource refresh rates.


Do you want combat to be that protracted?

 

[Saturnity]

So if I understand correctly, out of combat any obstacle has a value, and if the character's Trait matches or exceeds that value, AND if they have an SP to spend on the action, they can surmount the obstacle?

Yup, that's the general idea. Of course it's open for change, but I think it's simple enough of a concept so as not to be intrusive into the actual roleplay experience.

I notice you have a social Trait there, though - Fortune and its components (speaking of, do component Traits do anything other than provide the value for the total?). Is that handled the same way, with lying to an NPC having a rating of, for example, 3?

Exactly! That's the basic idea. I think that I'll judge the difficulty rating of lying and other such speech checks based on the "Sense" of the NPC, and perhaps the number of NPCs you are trying to convince. Convincing one person is generally easier than convincing an army.

Let's assume a minimum Vitality of 27. In that first round, Player B lost 3, down to 24. Assuming the exchanges continue in roughly the same way, that means it will take at least nine rounds of combat before Player B is defeated, depending on resource refresh rates.
Do you want combat to be that protracted?

For this... the numbers in the example I offered were just so I could demonstrate the idea. I think the trait system will work but you're right, having that low of a damage capability could draw out battles needlessly. To fix that I'll probably need to work on the weapon mechanics a little more. I'm considering having certain options for weapons that a player can add on, such as armor piercing capabilities and range extenders, stuff that you'd normally get later on that will help maximize damage potential.

 

[Grey]

That's not too unlike extant models, I just wanted clarity. So that should be just fine.


As for combat, you could tune down health values, too, rather than ramping up damage.

 

[Saturnity]

That's not too unlike extant models, I just wanted clarity. So that should be just fine.
As for combat, you could tune down health values, too, rather than ramping up damage.

I suppose I could try that to see how it works. I just worry that lowering the vitality will make it harder to scale as the RP progresses


Maybe I rather than adding Fortitude to the age of the character to determine health, I could just make it equal to the character's age? The reason I added Fortitude was to account for the fitness of the character.

 

[Grey]

Have you considered scaling options over scaling values?


Rather than increase damage and health as the RP proceeds, you could simple expand access to special combat techniques, tools, terrain exploits, that kind of thing. It gives the players more choices and is more interesting than simply buffing numbers - although it will need a bit more work.

 

[Saturnity]

Have you considered scaling options over scaling values?
Rather than increase damage and health as the RP proceeds, you could simple expand access to special combat techniques, tools, terrain exploits, that kind of thing. It gives the players more choices and is more interesting than simply buffing numbers - although it will need a bit more work.

That's... something to consider heavily, actually. I am actually not sure I'm fond of the "leveling" system like I have set up with gaining AP. Maybe adding other options like you said might be a way to circumvent that. Plus it might go along pretty well with the skills I'll be adding.