Advice/Help Designing Powers for PvE

[acsgon]

I've heard about balancing abilities in freeform roleplay. However, it seems most articles focus on PvP - that is, combat between two or more players' characters.

Not much for a player character fighting NPCs as part of a quest. Or finding creative solutions to puzzles. Or for buffing your allies on the mission. Are there any guides on how to figure out abilities for such situations?

In fact, there appears to be little help on how to create and design abilities in general. Plenty of rules such as "no time travel, no autohitting", but not on actually coming up with the powers.

I've looked to video games before, but many of them rely on video game traits to limit them or work at all. Such as cooldowns, or the fact that video games are designed around those abilities. It's unlikely for the world of a freeform group roleplay to be designed around a particular character's abilities.

 

[nerdy tangents]

First things first - Read the rules and lore of the roleplay. Then read them a second time. If you have any questions ask the GM.

Second - Be specific. Don’t just say “My character manipulates Fire” write out how they manipulate fire. What is their range? What is their limitations? What are the practical applications of this ability?

Third - Usable weaknesses. Look at the power and figure out how someone else (player or NPC) could neutralize it. Make sure this is accessible to the people you are likely to run into. Avoid things like the kryptonite weakness, if your weakness is something that is rare or that others don’t have ready access to than you need to change it.

Fourth - Immunities. So if you can’t think of anything else play with immunities. If your character manipulates Fire, maybe have it do they can still be burned without special equipment. This is a simple weakness that makes it fun for you and others to play with.

Fifth - Pick your characters level of competency to start with, just because they have the ABILITY to do something doesn’t mean they have to be aware of it at the start of the roleplay.

 

[Murdergurl]

As someone who HATES stats and numbers and such n my roleplays, I totally get where you're coming from. I gotta agree with what nerdy said: when writing out powers/abilities for characters, you should be thorough and specific. Here's some examples from a character profile of mine that define some of her characteristics ("powers and abilities") and her weapon. You could take the same approach with any character in any setting.

Spoiler: detail

Sensory:

• Nocturnal vision: 20/4 accuity in the dark. However, daylight tends to be harsh on goblin eyes. Goblins typically stay in shaded areas during diurnal activity and are almost never caught out in the open sunlight.
• Heightened hearing: Goblins have asymmetrical apertures. This works with their field of vision to correlate exactly where a sound is coming from. A goblin’s range of audible sounds is not unlike that of humans, but a goblin’s hearing is much more acute at certain frequencies enabling them to hear even the slightest movement.

Strength and Endurance:
Jinkka is actually an exceptionally strong goblin, having a very active lifestyle and regularly making off with loot that includes heavy gold coin, armor, and weapons. As such, she has a healthy strength and endurance about her.

• She can deadlift 110% of her body weight for a few moments before having to drop or set the load down.
• She can carry 100% of her own weight for several minutes before having to stop and rest. 50% of her own weight can be carried for about an hour before rest is needed, 25% of her weight for more than 4 hours, and less than that can be burdened upon her for the duration of the day.
• When running with the above variables, reduce the time she may be burdened with weight to ¼ of the time that has been prescribed. 100% or more of Jinkka’s weight cannot be carried while running.
• Jinkka can throw a weight of 4 Kg to a distance of about 5.5 meters. This short distance is not from lack of strength, but rather a goblin’s short arm reach.
• The average goblin has a punching power that is stunted compared to a human of comparable health/age/vocation. However, Jinkka is slightly over that average, coming closer to that hitting force than her spindly kin.

-------------------------------------

• Bludkul, Wooden Club of Yggdrasil

A length of roughly worked wood, thinner at the handle and bulbous at the striking
end. It is inset with crude, iron knurls on its head and banded in a length of brass at the handle. This weapon is allegedly carved out from a root piece of the fabled Yggdrasil tree. As a propagated piece of that legendary flora, the hewn club is in a constant and very slow state of growth. Yggdrasil is prehistoric, and any cuttings from it have an immense amount of stored nutrients from which to grow.

Regardless of the fact that it is immensely tough wood, the bludgeon must periodically be whittled down as small sprigs and leaves will eventually poke out of its mass. A failure to regularly prune the club would result in the eventual sprouting of a new tree, as extending branches and roots would eventually seek out soil and light. The club is a living thing, and any small fractures that the weapon withstands through its use are eventually self-repaired by the innate nature of the mythical wood. Such is the saturation with life-giving energy of the root wood, that the club shrugs off the effects of decay. If burnt, the wood can recover if not completely consumed by the damage of the fire. However, this would take many months before all the charred material is shed.

It should be mentioned that Jinkka herself is unaware of the extraordinary abilities this bludgeon possesses. All she really understands is that the wood is extremely durable and that it will grow sprigs and roots that she has to eventually nip off. The pruning of these budding branches is a chore unto itself, as a sharp knife or heavy file must be used against the adamant wood. And the deeper one digs into the meat of the club, the tougher the wood becomes.

Jinkka acquired her club over two years ago while exploring a ruin that had once been occupied by a lich lord. The undead sorcerer had been slain ages ago, but the fear of his tyrannical reign kept most people from venturing into the sunken remains of his fortress. There were tales of those few brave adventurers that dared to delve into the crumbling depths, only to never be heard from again. This served to reinforce any sane person's reluctance to enter the ruins. Jinkka however, paid little heed to these stories. The young goblin saw the murky castle as a ground ripe for the picking. Surely, a lich lord had acquired a goodly amount of valuable relics during their reign.

Unfortunately, there was good reason for the tales that surrounded the ruins. The innards of the fortress still housed remnants of the undead thralls that had served the necromancer in his un-life. Jinkka managed to get out with her soul and limbs still intact, but with little to show for her efforts but a few trinkets and a deceptively mundane looking club of wood. It was not until she had taken the weapon back to her village that the local shaman immediately sensed something to be 'different' about the primitive bludgeon. Upon further inspection and a proper session of convening with the spirits, the shaman revealed to Jinkka the nature and origin of her prize. Jinkka named the weapon “Bludkul”, and has never parted with her club. It is the one piece of loot that she considers to be priceless.

Length: 96 cm
Weight: 1.3 Kg
Core Compressive Strength: 120 Ksi
Properties: Regeneration, Resistant to effects of state change (i.e. decay, corrosion, molecular reconstitution/deconstruction, etc.)

 

[acsgon]

A lot of articles mention what was said here - how to place limitations upon abilities. Such balancing, I am highly familiar with. But that's not what I'm here to discuss.

For the sake of the thread, let's assume a sandbox-type roleplay where nearly anything goes. It's a large group roleplay where once I figure out my character's abilities, they're stuck as that forever, no changing. On each quest, my character could potentially be grouped up with any number of other players' characters. I don't get to choose who my character ends up having to work with.

Again, this is PvE, not PvP. My character is not fighting other characters. My character is working alongside other characters to complete a quest full of puzzles and defeat NPCs.

I'm trying to figure out how to even come up with fun, unique abilities to begin with. In nerdy tangents' post, I would be stuck before step 2, because I won't even know where to begin.

It's not nice to make either myself or the other guy redundant in this roleplay. I aim to avoid toe-stepping as much as possible. Having common abilities doesn't really help with that.

Again, see the second paragraph to understand my limitations within the roleplay. I can't change my character's abilities to suit others'. I can't decide ahead of time who I my character goes with.

Every attempt at designing abilities has ended up with very limited, near useless powers. On quests, my characters' end up being 'carried' throughout, unable to do much because everyone else does all the nice useful stuff. But I can't copy other people, because that would be stepping on their toes.

 

[baggysack]

There's your problem: you get locked into abilities without knowing if they'll matter. A good GM matches the story to the characters not the other way around!

In all honesty, you might have to provide an example. What powers have you explored that end up that useless, and in what specific contexts?

 

[Idea]

In fact, there appears to be little help on how to create and design abilities in general. Plenty of rules such as "no time travel, no autohitting", but not on actually coming up with the powers.

There are some inherent difficulties in these things which I think are worth looking into before I try giving any other kind of answer.

First, how are powers usually reviewed for balance? Well, there is a standard set to which the characters are compared- deviate too much from that standard, and you get a character being overpowered or underpowered. PvP has a standard built into it, that is the other characters. Just by a single other character being there, you have your point of comparison with which to judge whether characters are fair game power-level-wise.

PvE, however, is a LOT more flexible. Characters are not, not normally at least, build specifically in response to another player's character in a way what a GM brings can be. GMs can cater both the overall difficulty of PvE to the players, as well as bring PvE that specifically counters or favors the players. Furthermore, there's a lot wider a range of what "PvE" can be, as opposed to what "PvP" can be, as PvE doesn't always have to be a fight and especially not a duel-type fight.

Second, you rarely actually want true balance in PvE- players who enjoy a great PvE challenge usually are best suited with foes that are just above their paygrade but still manageable, to maximize their sense of accomplishment, whereas those who prefer simply succeeding or a more relaxed or casual engagement with the conflict will likely prefer PvE below their power curve. PvP is the only scenario where actual perfect balance is the ideal, as other players are not tools for the story, but actual competition where an advantage or disadvantage would be an error- not a feature.


Then there's the matter of creating abilities, and again there are two major dfificulties here. The first among them is that one really can't, abilities are simply too diverse in what they could be for any guide to really say "this is how you should approach it" without limiting you. Yes, a guide can tell you how to adjust your design past the initial idea, but that initial idea needs to be yours.

Second is that even if we couldn't, we wouldn't WANT to make your decision for you. Your ability is supposed to be a part of the character you come up wit yourself, it's your thing. Of course, people can make suggestions, but said suggestions shouldn't come in the guise of "this is the good way to think about this".


Now I do want to give some tips that I think are generally applicable, but those reasons are needed to keep in mind- PvE lacks a basic standard for balancing, and it is both fundamentally impossible and undesirable to dictate to you how to formulate a power's initial ideas.



Coming Up With The Power (I can't give you much in the way of specifics like I mentioned, but I can help you find a way to come up with things on your own, by breaking down the process)
-Figure Out the Inspiration: The first thing you'll want is some source for the idea of the power. This could be a particular theme your character is designed around, an interesting piece of the lore, etc... worst case scenario, you can even look at a cannon power or character you really like (though it's easy to get caught up in an image you can't realize like this so be careful when using that inspiration). A particularly effective one can be a backstory- if you have a given backstory for a character, then creating a power that complements that backstory could greatly enhance the character.

-Identify your niche role: While its always possible another one ends up occupying it anyway, there's a lot of specialized tasks one can dedicate themselves too, as opposed to just broad things. Maybe instead of a simply striving to be a support healer, you want a healer even capable of healing non-living things. This works for things outside of combat roles too, for instance I often like to play child characters, and thus I've come up with powers that help me work into that role, such as a regeneration so fast it prevented the character from aging past a very very young age.

-Figure Out the Core of the Power: Once you have an inspiration and your purpose, you now translate that into a core power. This is the anchor of your ability, and so it should be a relatively simple description, no more than one simple sentence. Details are for later, this is just the very basic idea of your power, and also the one you're not willing to change nomatter what unless you scrap the power entirely.

-Fill the Gaps: Sometimes the inspiration or the goals aren't satisfied with just what you managed to get for the core idea- this is the step when you add the first details, and these are the ones where you take the core idea and try to find means of stretching it for any part of the inspiration or purpose that you can't give up.

-Don't be Afraid to Be Weak or Crazy: There's a lot of out-of-the box ideas out there, and frankly a lot of them aren't the strongest- because the strongest are often soulless exploits, efficient but not fun or unique. Powers that fit about as well as a collection of clothes in an RPG chosen entirely for stat boosts.


Tips for Balancing Powers in PvE
-Always judge a power by potential, not by how it will actually be played: Because you can't know how it will actually be played. Assume that if a power has an exploit, it will be used, and rate power based on that.

-Balance for Favoring the Narrative: When deciding what is balanced for your power, consider how it will work on a hypothetical scene of a story- does the way your power works lead to a more interesting story, or does it resolve the plot without letting things flourish? Does it create an interesting dynamic fight or does it mow down enemies left right and center or even prevent the fight entirely? Try balancing your powers in a way that creates a more interesting narrative.

( also, pretty much everything nerdy tangents said. )

A lot of articles mention what was said here - how to place limitations upon abilities. Such balancing, I am highly familiar with. But that's not what I'm here to discuss.

For the sake of the thread, let's assume a sandbox-type roleplay where nearly anything goes. It's a large group roleplay where once I figure out my character's abilities, they're stuck as that forever, no changing. On each quest, my character could potentially be grouped up with any number of other players' characters. I don't get to choose who my character ends up having to work with.

Again, this is PvE, not PvP. My character is not fighting other characters. My character is working alongside other characters to complete a quest full of puzzles and defeat NPCs.

I'm trying to figure out how to even come up with fun, unique abilities to begin with. In nerdy tangents' post, I would be stuck before step 2, because I won't even know where to begin.

It's not nice to make either myself or the other guy redundant in this roleplay. I aim to avoid toe-stepping as much as possible. Having common abilities doesn't really help with that.

Again, see the second paragraph to understand my limitations within the roleplay. I can't change my character's abilities to suit others'. I can't decide ahead of time who I my character goes with.

Every attempt at designing abilities has ended up with very limited, near useless powers. On quests, my characters' end up being 'carried' throughout, unable to do much because everyone else does all the nice useful stuff. But I can't copy other people, because that would be stepping on their toes.

If there truly are no means of coordination, where either OOC or IC characters can decide who to match up with in some way, there are three things I can recommend doing to help with your problem from this post:

1. Start by creating gaps in your powers. For instance, maybe your power that makes you indestructible also takes time to set up and prevents you from moving while in that state, thus creating room for others to come and fill those gaps.

2. You don't necessarily even really need to not overlap. If you're smart about it, you can use character dynamics to enhance things through overlap. Two characters with fire powers might bond over that fact and reinforce one another as a team, maybe even learning from each other or conflicting over the different ways they use their powers.

3. If all else fails, it's also important to understand the following: Sandbox roleplays aren't exactly well-known for strict GMs. Odds are the powers are barely reviewed and will pass completely out of balance and overlaps will be everywhere. It's no use beating yourself up if the environment you're working under is against you to begin with.



Anyways, these things are really pretty much on a case by case basis, but I hope this helps! Best of luck and happy RPing!

 

[acsgon]

Wow, thank you so much for your highly detailed response! I will use your words a a guide when I make a character.

For now, I wish to ask about certain things:

-Always judge a power by potential, not by how it will actually be played: Because you can't know how it will actually be played. Assume that if a power has an exploit, it will be used, and rate power based on that.

How do I find exploits? I find that I have highly uncreative and cannot find any exploits, at least not in my own.

In addition, when someone points out an exploit, I'm forced to patch the exploit, otherwise I get an infraction. It's not like I can actually use exploits anyway.

I do wonder though. If for some reason I'm allowed to keep the exploit, should I use it or patch it?

- Balance for Favoring the Narrative

Spoiler

When deciding what is balanced for your power, consider how it will work on a hypothetical scene of a story- does the way your power works lead to a more interesting story, or does it resolve the plot without letting things flourish? Does it create an interesting dynamic fight or does it mow down enemies left right and center or even prevent the fight entirely? Try balancing your powers in a way that creates a more interesting narrative.

How does one determine a power's narrative effects as listed out here?

 

[Crayons]

I think the best thing to do is come up with your powers yourself, and run them past the GM in order to identify the specifics of the power levels. A good GM will work with you to balance the powers with the rest of the party and the tone of the story. If I were GMing I would make this a compulsory step. Freedom for all your imagination with the powers, but left to the GM to decide what level those powers should be at. I've been on both sides of this fence as player and GM and it works well. (Also lets you weed out players who want to power game by seeing who gives you significant pushback on the levels. XD )

As for coming up with ideas for powers or ways to exploit them - ultimately that comes down to your own imagination, intelligence and wits. If you can't think of anything there is a superpower wiki that can give you ideas. You could also trawl mythology for interesting powers or look to nature to give you ideas.

 

[Idea]

How do I find exploits? I find that I have highly uncreative and cannot find any exploits, at least not in my own.

It really works on a case by case basis and one has to look carefully at a given ability, I can try giving some pointers but its not going to be the whole story most of the time. The question of exploits in the context of looking at power for its potential is "what can the power do if the player does not hold themselves back except within the boundaries specified in the power"?

-Any vague or unrestricted aspects of a power could contain an exploit. The ill-defined parts, the ones with little to nothing in the way of boundaries, are the most likely places to find an exploit, simply because the power isn't technically restricting that. Things like manipulation or generation powers in general really fall into this, especially something like shadow manipulation: Exactly how hard are the shadows? If they are this semi-ethereal thing of unspecified toughness you could end up with a power that's borderline invulnerability.

-Consider how powerful something is if you keep spamming it. In case you're unaware, spamming an ability is using repeatedly in rapid succession, and just keeping at it. Powers like teleportation may seem innocent at first (though depending on how exactly the teleportation works it could really make them easily broken, such as being able to take other people and dropping them from massive heights or creating portals allowing them to slice off parts of people with those) but unless they are properly limited against it, they can make a character practically untouchable by just repeatedly teleporting at the slightest sign of danger.

-"Energy costs" (AKA you get more tired, spending stamina, spending some vague undefined energy in terms of how it is acquired and to what amount) are terrible limitations. Yes they are super common and in theory really helpful, but in reality they are so flexible that a character may suddenly seem to have this inhuman amount of stamina as even as they say they are losing energy they just seem to keep going indefinitely.

-Variety is power. The more options one has, the more they are capable of dealing with particular issues in a way that counters those issues. Sometimes getting 100 tiny superpowers can be more useful than one single grand superpower, if even even a single among the tiny ones holds some kind of counter, or if it just happens to be more useful for that situation, or if combining the smaller powers works well against that one grand one. And while 100 powers may seem like a big number, a lot of variety-type powers often contain infinite or borderline infinite possibilities within them.

-If power X contains power Y + something else that isn't a negative, then X is always stronger than Y. People working with meta powers sometimes say "oh, but they're only holding a couple of powers, what's the big deal", well the big deal is that two powers is more than anyone else gets, so unless you are nerfing them, you are adding to the power of a regular ability the power of variety or just a straight up upgrade.

In addition, when someone points out an exploit, I'm forced to patch the exploit, otherwise I get an infraction. It's not like I can actually use exploits anyway.

Unfortunately, not really. See, most GMs are not like myself and others like me, they rate a power on how they expect it to be used (if at all they give proper attention to the ability), which means a lot of exploits actually tend to stay in abilities.

Now this isn't all bad, it does mean players have a lot more freedom in creating powers and said powers can be of a higher power level, but it does rely on players having self-control and a fair amount of discipline, which you can't necessarily count on when things are actually on the line.

do wonder though. If for some reason I'm allowed to keep the exploit, should I use it or patch it?

Refer to the narrative rule on this one- what makes for a better story? Is your role more forefront or more supportive? How does this exploit interact with what other players are doing?

I'll say it yet again, these things work on a very case by case basis. Powers are too diverse a thing for most rules to apply in any universal fashion, and many barely apply halfway through.

How does one determine a power's narrative effects as listed out here?

Its about your mental image of the power, how you picture it being used and what kind of uses you're hoping to get out of it.