Character sheet sins

[commanderproton]

I think it's mandatory to report because our sexes are more than just sex. For instance, when making characters connected to each other, they'd know each other's sexes. Or if you're doing an RP that involves assigning roommates or something similar, then it's information the GM needs. There's a reason why it's included on Driver's Licenses and birth certificates and whatnot, it's handy information.

Actually, there's really no reason for it to be on your license. A person's biological sex isn't necessarily the same as how they present or identify.


Weird fact? Licenses have your sex, but not your infinitely more helpful blood type.

 

[Mishka]

Character sheet sin: when it's requested that you "make your sheet look pretty". I mean, I sort of understand it. That doesn't make it any less stupid though

 

[commanderproton]

Character sheet sin: when it's requested that you "make your sheet look pretty". I mean, I sort of understand it. That doesn't make it any less stupid though

Stupid phrasing, sure, but I love neat, orderly sheets, preferably with good grammar, spelling and punctuation. I've modded a few rp groups and banged my head on the desk when people submit sheets written in lolcat speak.

 

[SirBlazeALot]

Actually, there's really no reason for it to be on your license. A person's biological sex isn't necessarily the same as how they present or identify.
Weird fact? Licenses have your sex, but not your infinitely more helpful blood type.

That's fine and dandy but legally you're identified by your biological sex. When you get a sex change all your legal documents have to change, just like getting a name change. It's helpful information. You could argue that height, weight, hair color, and eye color don't belong there either, it's all just a part of your physical description


But barring DLs and legal nonsense since that isn't the thread topic, it's helpful to put on a character sheet when it' you're thinking about pre-existing relationships, and other situations where sex is relevant. It takes like 2 seconds to type out, definitely not a character sheet sin if you ask me.

 

[Mishka]

Stupid phrasing, sure, but I love neat, orderly sheets, preferably with good grammar, spelling and punctuation. I've modded a few rp groups and banged my head on the desk when people submit sheets written in lolcat speak.

I'm referring to the people who are asking for colorful BBCoding not proper grammar in your CS. I'm all for the latter

 

[octopi]

Sure, what the government thinks your sex is might be important for legal documentation, but again, I don't see why that makes it necessary for the people you're roleplaying with to know? Besides, like a few other things discussed in this thread, the single word male/female does not necessarily tell you anything about the character, even their chromosomes, because biology is complicated. I understand that under some circumstances (like the sci-fi chromosome targeting example that was mentioned) plot means this information is important, but the same could be said for favourite food or theme song. It's when that's not the case but I still have to fill it in that's the problem. Maybe my character 1. transitioned through methods other than surgery and never had their official documents changed and 2. has never met the other characters prior to the beginning of the RP. Why is it that, regardless of the circumstances, I am forced to divulge what specific word they have on their driver's license?


Maybe it's not a "character sheet sin" per se, but the intention is often to be more inclusive of trans people, and ironically it's one of the only things you can put in a character sheet that will make me deeply uncomfortable.


Again, I really, really don't want to get too deep into this, so I'm going to stop replying to this thread on this specific topic.

 

[commanderproton]

Also, regarding things like a character's likes and dislikes, while it's true that people won't know your favorite song or that you loathe poor grammar when they first meet you, your existing friends do. I've been in Hogwarts and X-Men rpgs where new players weren't necessarily new students, but characters newly involved in the plot. Kind of like how Luna sort of showed up out of nowhere in book six (five?) as a friend of Ginny's.


And, even in a more action-oriented rp, that sort of information could be pertinent. And enemy spy could use someone's likes to get in close to someone, for instance.

 

[Sara Sidereal]

I absolutely hate it when sexuality is on character sheets. I just feel that this is so incredibly untrue to life.

Why?

It removes valuable potential for meaningful interactions or even plot points. You rarely ever see anyone roleplaying their character attracted or coming on to someone with an incompatible sexuality, much less attaching heavy emotions to such an interaction. In a way, even though it's mostly included in character sheets for RPs with an eye towards romance, it actually hurts potential for romantic interactions.

This is a good thing. If somebody indicates a specific orientation for their character, they clearly aren’t interested in roleplaying other types of romantic interactions, and this saves everyone the trouble of having to ask. It’s the same as indicating that you aren’t interested in having your character tortured, for example.

At the same time, it pidgeonholes the character into that one specified sexuality. In a world of grays, specifying the sexuality means that your character inherently needs to be black, white, or tangerine.

This is how sexuality usually works. For example, I’m straight, and accordingly, not interested in people of the same gender as me. There are no shades of gray there.

On the other hand, if I were to say "he's straight", he can't become bi-curious.

Why not?

He can't decide he has different preferences from what he did before, or else it becomes completely untrue.

So if i have “age: 45” on a character’s sheet, she can’t age? Or gain or lose weight, if her weight’s on there?

What the fuck is the point of designating a sexuality?

To let other people know what you’re interested in roleplaying, to reduce misunderstandings between players and prevent people’s time from being wasted.

What do you guys think should never go on a character sheet?

Whatever the storyteller tells you not to include. Anything that would violate site rules. Otherwise put whatever you want on there. It’s yours.

 

[Ryik]

Why?
This is a good thing. If somebody indicates a specific orientation for their character, they clearly aren’t interested in roleplaying other types of romantic interactions, and this saves everyone the trouble of having to ask. It’s the same as indicating that you aren’t interested in having your character tortured, for example.


To let other people know what you’re interested in roleplaying, to reduce misunderstandings between players and prevent people’s time from being wasted.

You bring up some very good points.


I said it's untrue to life because IRL, everyone you know is straight until proven otherwise. Gay characters in RPs where sexuality is designated don't have to deal with any uncertainty or feel like they suffer any risk from romantic interactions, and the vice versa applies for straight characters with "ambiguously gay" ones.


I don't know why unrequited relationships are being compared to torture, or called a waste of time. As they say, Conflict is the essence of drama. I'd rather not shelter any characters from unpleasant experiences, but then perhaps we have different views on what RPing is.

 

[Sara Sidereal]

You bring up some very good points.
I said it's untrue to life because IRL, everyone you know is straight until proven otherwise. Gay characters in RPs where sexuality is designated don't have to deal with any uncertainty or feel like they suffer any risk from romantic interactions, and the vice versa applies for straight characters with "ambiguously gay" ones.


I don't know why unrequited relationships are being compared to torture, or called a waste of time. As they say, Conflict is the essence of drama. I'd rather not shelter any characters from unpleasant experiences, but then perhaps we have different views on what RPing is.

It's not about the characters, but their players. I don't want to make the people I play with uncomfortable. That means choosing not to have my characters do things that will make them uncomfortable. The more they communicate about what makes them uncomfortable, the easier it will be for me to avoid this.


I don't know what you mean by "straight until proven otherwise". I don't make any assumptions about anyone's sexuality either way, and if I do find out one way or the other, I won't care regardless.


Sexuality still carries uncertainty and risk whether sexuality is indicated OOC or not. Your characters don't know each other's sexualities until / unless they find out IC.


I agree with you that conflict is the essence of drama. I prefer that conflict to stay between the characters though, since there won't be any conflict if I drive all the players away by being a creep and having my characters flirt with theirs.


Oh yeah, I should add that you can still have characters with incompatible sexualities (a straight man hitting on a gay woman, for example) flirt with each other; just clear it with the player first.

 

[TyrantKingKuma]

I really hate when the players make a personality section in the sheet and fill it with contradictions


These are actual quotes of actual sheets


"He is cool and collected but hotheaded and stubborn"


"She is known as the class clown, but she is always sad"


"He never wants to fight he is a pacifist. He loves the sound of swords clashing, specially if he wields one."


One thing is to create contrasting elements in a personality, something different is contradicting the thing you just said

 

[ApfelSeine]

You bring up some very good points.
I said it's untrue to life because IRL, everyone you know is straight until proven otherwise. Gay characters in RPs where sexuality is designated don't have to deal with any uncertainty or feel like they suffer any risk from romantic interactions, and the vice versa applies for straight characters with "ambiguously gay" ones.


I don't know why unrequited relationships are being compared to torture, or called a waste of time. As they say, Conflict is the essence of drama. I'd rather not shelter any characters from unpleasant experiences, but then perhaps we have different views on what RPing is.

Eh, personally I tend to assume that everyone is bi until proven otherwise. Or at least, I assume that everyone has the potential to be attracted to anyone else until I notice that they prefer one, both, or neither gender. I guess it is a matter of perspective in that way.


I think that the risk of unrequited love is still present even when working within a character's sexuality. I find that often there will be a character who will hit on my character, but my character will end up turning them down anyways. Characters can still be picky. And you could always intentionally set your character up to fail.


A big part of rps is that some people plan ahead, and some don't. The differing styles leads to different things being included in the CS. Certain things will seem unnecessary to one's particular style, while that same thing may seem strange to exclude to others. It's all a matter of how much control one likes to have, so I see it as a stylistic thing.

 

[Sara Sidereal]

I really hate when the players make a personality section in the sheet and fill it with contradictions
These are actual quotes of actual sheets


"He is cool and collected but hotheaded and stubborn"


"She is known as the class clown, but she is always sad"


"He never wants to fight he is a pacifist. He loves the sound of swords clashing, specially if he wields one."


One thing is to create contrasting elements in a personality, something different is contradicting the thing you just said

Introverted, but prone to fits of rage.


Someone who goes out of their way to entertain people, but suffers from depression. The depression might be the reason she goes to such great lengths to act happy / make others happy.


Someone who doesn't like actual violence against people, but appreciates fighting as an artform and friendly competition.

 

[LegoLad659]

Introverted, but prone to fits of rage.

This is a thing that actually happens. See also: Myself. Only with people online, though.

Someone who goes out of their way to entertain people, but suffers from depression. The depression might be the reason she goes to such great lengths to act happy.

I actually use this myself a good number of times, I think it's an interesting concept. The idea that someone who has suffered in the past tries to act happy so they can keep their mind off of their sadness. The idea appeals to me, I like it a lot.

 

[TyrantKingKuma]

Introverted, but prone to fits of rage.
Someone who goes out of their way to entertain people, but suffers from depression. The depression might be the reason she goes to such great lengths to act happy.


Someone who doesn't like actual violence against people, but appreciates fighting as an artform and friendly competition.

That what I thought at first, but the players didn't justify it like that at all, his characters were, personality-wise, a bunch of conflicting traits without any justification.


He wanted to make a serial killer, who was member of a loving family, had a nice childhood and decided to kill people just because.


Or a magical knight who came from a magical dimension that never saw technology ever and on his first appearance he hacked a computer and used a bunch of tech things just after coming from a portal.


He never did anything with his backstory that related to his personality, mostly because he stole bits and pieces from different wikis of series he liked. He was a mess and when he played the characters he never followed the bios


For example one of his "hero" characters was a "happy go-lucky surfer dude, who was the class clown (The only comedy archetype he knew so he repeated it every time) who is always chill and relaxed" First time he appeared, from nowhere, into a story and was ignored because his character didn't have anything to do with the situation he decided to make his character carpet bomb a crowded street with grenades that caused miniature black hole-like vortexs...


He couldn't write a personality and he couldn't follow it.

 

[ApfelSeine]

Introverted, but prone to fits of rage.
Someone who goes out of their way to entertain people, but suffers from depression. The depression might be the reason she goes to such great lengths to act happy / make others happy.


Someone who doesn't like actual violence against people, but appreciates fighting as an artform and friendly competition.

I think introverted isn't exactly equivalent to cool and collected, but that is a good alternative. Another option is to say that a character is calm unless someone they care about is in danger, in which case they will act rashly.


Those are good descriptions. If phrased like that, they don't present an inherent contradiction xD people are contradictory by nature, and change in different contexts. Including that context in the description is important to keep it from being confusing.

 

[Coyote Hart]

Introverted, but prone to fits of rage.
Someone who goes out of their way to entertain people, but suffers from depression. The depression might be the reason she goes to such great lengths to act happy / make others happy.


Someone who doesn't like actual violence against people, but appreciates fighting as an artform and friendly competition.

I'd agree, but why didn't the player put that in the personality tab? If I were to see it, I would say "What does that mean? Uh.... class clown but always sad... that includes while joking, right? Wait, this makes no sense."


I will not go beyond what is written to find an explanation. That is the responsibility of the character creator.

 

[Coyote Hart]

I'm referring to the people who are asking for colorful BBCoding not proper grammar in your CS. I'm all for the latter

I agree to this. I don't BB code. Everything just fails miserably.

 

[TyrantKingKuma]

As I mentioned before he only put the contradictions without justifying them and when asked he only said that's how it is. He wasn't subtle or nuanced, he decided without thinking about the personality traits.

 

[Sara Sidereal]

[QUOTE="Storm Guardian]I'd agree, but why didn't the player put that in the personality tab? If I were to see it, I would say "What does that mean? Uh.... class clown but always sad... that includes while joking, right? Wait, this makes no sense."
I will not go beyond what is written to find an explanation. That is the responsibility of the character creator.

[/QUOTE]
I absolutely agree, and to be honest, I doubt that's what the people you quoted were thinking when they made the characters.

 

[TyrantKingKuma]

"He is cool and collected but hotheaded and stubborn"


This doesn't mean "Introvert" You can be cool and collected while also being outgoing and charismatic.


The class clown could be like that, but the backstory of the character didn't even touch in anything that could be a source of depression, the guy just thought it sounded cool and didn't think why.


Friendly competition when he "loves the sound of steel clashing against steel" doesn't sound like the thing he likes to do... plus that character injured and killed several NPC on his first appearance.

 

[Sara Sidereal]

"He is cool and collected but hotheaded and stubborn"
This doesn't mean "Introvert" You can be cool and collected while also being outgoing and charismatic.


The class clown could be like that, but the backstory of the character didn't even touch in anything that could be a source of depression, the guy just thought it sounded cool and didn't think why.


Friendly competition when he "loves the sound of steel clashing against steel" doesn't sound like the thing he likes to do... plus that character injured and killed several NPC on his first appearance.

See above. I was just playing devil's advocate.

 

[Ryik]

I don't know what you mean by "straight until proven otherwise". I don't make any assumptions about anyone's sexuality either way, and if I do find out one way or the other, I won't care regardless.


Sexuality still carries uncertainty and risk whether sexuality is indicated OOC or not. Your characters don't know each other's sexualities until / unless they find out IC.


I agree with you that conflict is the essence of drama. I prefer that conflict to stay between the characters though, since there won't be any conflict if I drive all the players away by being a creep and having my characters flirt with theirs.

Just an expression, saying that the vast majority of people are heterosexual. I've been playing Zero Time Dilemma recently, (Which plays with probability a lot) so the puzzles of odds (ie Monty Hall dilemma, but with ten doors) make the percentage look guaranteed by comparison. I don't try to make assumptions either, but the odds of this uncertainty makes one outcome much more common, If people have difficulty confessing, it would be more so if there was a 95% chance it was a denial, to say nothing of denying them when compatible.


You're right that it's a player problem, because the real issue is that the characters that don't know the information still act on it, albeit subtly. (eg male character flirting with every female except the only lesbian, despite ample opportunities)


As for being creeped out by such relationships, I don't see the difference with unrequited compatible relationships.

I really hate when the players make a personality section in the sheet and fill it with contradictions
These are actual quotes of actual sheets


"He is cool and collected but hotheaded and stubborn"


"She is known as the class clown, but she is always sad"


"He never wants to fight he is a pacifist. He loves the sound of swords clashing, specially if he wields one."


One thing is to create contrasting elements in a personality, something different is contradicting the thing you just said

Preach.


Don't forget sociopaths who "will kill you" if you hurt their (nonexistent) friends.

Spoiler

Could be worse, as far as things actually put on the character sheet. They could be (And I'm serious, someone did this in a realistic setting) named "Dante Bloodwind", with a face claim of a human Shadow the Hedgehog.

 

[Sara Sidereal]

Just an expression, saying that the vast majority of people are heterosexual. I've been playing Zero Time Dilemma recently, (Which plays with probability a lot) so the puzzles of odds (ie Monty Hall dilemma, but with ten doors) make the percentage look guaranteed by comparison. I don't try to make assumptions either, but the odds of this uncertainty makes one outcome much more common, If people have difficulty confessing, it would be more so if there was a 95% chance it was a denial, to say nothing of denying them when compatible.
You're right that it's a player problem, because the real issue is that the characters that don't know the information still act on it, albeit subtly. (eg male character flirting with every female except the only lesbian, despite ample opportunities)


As for being creeped out by such relationships, I don't see the difference with unrequited compatible relationships.


Preach.


Don't forget sociopaths who "will kill you" if you hurt their (nonexistent) friends.

Spoiler

Could be worse, as far as things actually put on the character sheet. They could be (And I'm serious, someone did this in a realistic setting) named "Dante Bloodwind", with a face claim of a human Shadow the Hedgehog.

If the other player is creeped out, then it's creepy.

 

[Ryik]

If the other player is creeped out, then it's creepy.