Character-Driven vs. Story-Driven

[Daniel Rothschild]

A great rp needs both great characters and great stories, they have to work in tandem, just because it's difficult to have one without the other.

 

[Jarkov Malachai]

Personally, I have always upheld that it is not the destination that matters. In my views, the most amazing story in the entire universe is about as fun as two mentally incompetent rocks trying to have sexy time when the characters experiencing said plot are about as mentally competent as the rocks previously mentioned or are about as deep as a hookers faith and loyalty. (brutal analogy, forgive me.)


A great character, one with depth, backstory and a steady hand to guide them can make almost any shitty story a semi-decent one. Can't make it a novel to withstand the test of time, its still a shitty story but It can make them bearable. The characters give life, heart and soul, just take a look at undertale. A prime example of heart warming characters and humor coming together to make a little 16 bit game voted for #1 of the year.


Another example I would make is this if you would bear with me.


You are a painter and you have discovered the greatest backdrop in the world... it is without a doubt the most gorgeous thing you have ever seen but there is but one problem, there is no one else but you to appreciate it. No muse aside from the raw background is available to bring it farther, no one around to give it a story. It is just that, a beautiful backdrop, nothing more and nothing less. It is without purpose as it is just a backdrop, and there needs to be something just as outstanding there in the foreground to make it all come together.


So I suppose one could say I have argued the point that both story/backdrop and character/muse are equally important which I would agree. I'd rather have both but often as not that is not possible.


But then I think of Leonardo da vinchi. How many conspiracy theories are about her smile? How many conspiracy theories are on the equally stunning background? Compare the two.

 

[Daniel Rothschild]

[QUOTE="Jarkov Malachai]Personally, I have always upheld that it is not the destination that matters. In my views, the most amazing story in the entire universe is about as fun as two mentally incompetent rocks trying to have sexy time when the characters experiencing said plot are about as mentally competent as the rocks previously mentioned or are about as deep as a hookers faith and loyalty. (brutal analogy, forgive me.)
A great character, one with depth, backstory and a steady hand to guide them can make almost any shitty story a semi-decent one. Can't make it a novel to withstand the test of time, its still a shitty story but It can make them bearable. The characters give life, heart and soul, just take a look at undertale. A prime example of heart warming characters and humor coming together to make a little 16 bit game voted for #1 of the year.


Another example I would make is this if you would bear with me.


You are a painter and you have discovered the greatest backdrop in the world... it is without a doubt the most gorgeous thing you have ever seen but there is but one problem, there is no one else but you to appreciate it. No muse aside from the raw background is available to bring it farther, no one around to give it a story. It is just that, a beautiful backdrop, nothing more and nothing less. It is without purpose as it is just a backdrop, and there needs to be something just as outstanding there in the foreground to make it all come together.


So I suppose one could say I have argued the point that both story/backdrop and character/muse are equally important which I would agree. I'd rather have both but often as not that is not possible.


But then I think of Leonardo da vinchi. How many conspiracy theories are about her smile? How many conspiracy theories are on the equally stunning background? Compare the two.

[/QUOTE]
Could not have said that any better.

 

[Jarkov Malachai]

[QUOTE="Daniel Rothschild]Could not have said that any better.

[/QUOTE]
Thank you my good man, and by the way, welcome to RPN. Hope ya stick around.

 

[White Masquerade]

@Jarkov Malachai


Nice thoughts. While I don't agree with the painting comparison, I still enjoyed reading the answer! It's a difficult question right? I mean, you have good reads spanning all along the spectrum. Character-centric stories like Lord of the Rings and Tom Sawyer, Story-centric pieces like Fahrenheit 451 and Atlas Shrugged, to those in the middle like the Great Gatsby and Harry Potter. There's proven, good stuff everywhere.


Maybe it comes down to what you want to express? If you want to highlight growth and personal journey, go character-centric. If you want to highlight a societal condition, go story-centric, because it's more broad-scoped.


I think that'd be a much, much better way to look at the question, rather than saying one option is out right better than the other. It makes sense thinking about it in the frame of why some RPs trip over themselves. How can you write a good story with nothing to explain? How can you create good characters that have no journey or impetus to change?


Wow. Thank you for the comment Jarkov!

 

[Spacekitty]

@Jarkov Malachai[/URL]
Nice thoughts. While I don't agree with the painting comparison, I still enjoyed reading the answer! It's a difficult question right? I mean, you have good reads spanning all along the spectrum. Character-centric stories like Lord of the Rings and Tom Sawyer, Story-centric pieces like Fahrenheit 451 and Atlas Shrugged, to those in the middle like the Great Gatsby and Harry Potter. There's proven, good stuff everywhere.


Maybe it comes down to what you want to express? If you want to highlight growth and personal journey, go character-centric. If you want to highlight a societal condition, go story-centric, because it's more broad-scoped.


I think that'd be a much, much better way to look at the question, rather than saying one option is out right better than the other. It makes sense thinking about it in the frame of why some RPs trip over themselves. How can you write a good story with nothing to explain? How can you create good characters that have no journey or impetus to change?


Wow. Thank you for the comment Jarkov!

A good character can make u for a bad story


But a good story cannot make up for a bad character


Therefore good characters are more important, albeit it's close


And Jarky is dumb so never listen to him

 

[White Masquerade]

A good character can make u for a bad story
But a good story cannot make up for a bad character


Therefore good characters are more important, albeit it's close


And Jarky is dumb so never listen to him

Lol. I vow to never listen to Jarky again. I'm still flippy-floppy but I get what you're saying.

 

[Spacekitty]

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]Lol. I vow to never listen to Jarky again. I'm still flippy-floppy but I get what you're saying.

[/QUOTE]
Good, He is evil


Lol make up your mind!!!

 

[Jarkov Malachai]

Good, He is evil
Lol make up your mind!!!

OI ya bastard cat! I am not evil... *sniffles* I just make Dredge and death.

 

[Spacekitty]

[QUOTE="Jarkov Malachai]OI ya bastard cat! I am not evil... *sniffles* I just make Dredge and death.

[/QUOTE]
And kill my kinfolk


But I like you a bit more since I have a dredge

 

[Jarkov Malachai]

And kill my kinfolk
But I like you a bit more since I have a dredge

I only pray I do not regret said gift.

 

[Spacekitty]

[QUOTE="Jarkov Malachai]I only pray I do not regret said gift.

[/QUOTE]
You will


Not

 

[Zilla]

I'm absolutely on the side of a good story is more important than good characters. Characters should be developed and without a good story this will never happen. Characters should grow, live, and die within the story. I have seen characters care more about their character than about the story and this is why RPs die. The way I look at "character driven" RPs is more like two or more people writing at each other and not with each other. From my experience it turns into a lot of long-winded exposition and internal monologues which are interesting in solitary fiction, but absolute post fluff for RP.

 

[White Masquerade]

I'm absolutely on the side of a good story is more important than good characters. Characters should be developed and without a good story this will never happen. Characters should grow, live, and die within the story. I have seen characters care more about their character than about the story and this is why RPs die. The way I look at "character driven" RPs is more like two or more people writing at each other and not with each other. From my experience it turns into a lot of long-winded exposition and internal monologues which are interesting in solitary fiction, but absolute post fluff for RP.

Very good points Zilla. Being honest and thinking back over my time here, I've seen more RPs die over characters doing nothing, rather than the characters being uninteresting. I don't think I've ever seen an RP die because the characters were "stupid". That really says something on the issue, at least to me. I think you pushed me to definitely staying on the side of "Story-Driven". Thank you for your comment!

 

[Spacekitty]

[QUOTE="White Masquerade]Very good points Zilla. Being honest and thinking back over my time here, I've seen more RPs die over characters doing nothing, rather than the characters being uninteresting. I don't think I've ever seen an RP die because the characters were "stupid". That really says something on the issue, at least to me. I think you pushed me to definitely staying on the side of "Story-Driven". Thank you for your comment!

[/QUOTE]
Even with a bad story, if you have good characters you will create your own story through your characters interactions but with bad character a good story is ruined

 

[QuirkyAngel]

But a good story cannot make up for a bad character

This is arguable. I once made an utterly bland character who started out with nothing, but a name and gender. After running her through the rp, she gained a personality and backstory. A good story can make rpers think.

[QUOTE="Jarkov Malachai]

You are a painter and you have discovered the greatest backdrop in the world... it is without a doubt the most gorgeous thing you have ever seen but there is but one problem, there is no one else but you to appreciate it. No muse aside from the raw background is available to bring it farther, no one around to give it a story. It is just that, a beautiful backdrop, nothing more and nothing less. It is without purpose as it is just a backdrop, and there needs to be something just as outstanding there in the foreground to make it all come together.

[/QUOTE]
The backdrop description makes me think you're talking about setting and not story.

 

[Spacekitty]

This is arguable. I once made an utterly bland character who started out with nothing, but a name and gender. After running her through the rp, she gained a personality and backstory. A good story can make rpers think.
The backdrop description makes me think you're talking about setting and not story.

Im kinda talking about setting too


Only ever olay nation building rps, character drivne ones at that but mainly theirs only an over haning plot and your characters and nations drive the story

 

[Jarkov Malachai]

Which of course it all comes down to this, point of view. What apparently the entire universe revolves around even physics, and how we perceive time are based upon our points of view. So I repeat, it all comes down to point of view and how we wish to see it and how others see it.

 

[Spacekitty]

[QUOTE="Jarkov Malachai]Which of course it all comes down to this, point of view. What apparently the entire universe revolves around even physics, and how we perceive time are based upon our points of view. So I repeat, it all comes down to point of view and how we wish to see it and how others see it.

[/QUOTE]
but only my perspective is correct

 

[call me rae]

but only my perspective is correct

You know the fact that your avatar is a cat with a mustache and a top hat just makes that sentence hysterical.

 

[Zilla]

Even with a bad story, if you have good characters you will create your own story through your characters interactions but with bad character a good story is ruined

Where you are incorrect, Mr. Bob, is that you are assuming bad characters. Yet the axiom here is not bad story + good characters vs good story + bad characters... It's average story + good characters vs good story + average characters. The third option is both being decent... which I think throws the poll off a bit, as it should be both average.

 

[Spacekitty]

Where you are incorrect, Mr. Bob, is that you are assuming bad characters. Yet the axiom here is not bad story + good characters vs good story + bad characters... It's average story + good characters vs good story + average characters. The third option is both being decent... which I think throws the poll off a bit, as it should be both average.

I still prefer good characters as a RP is about character interaction rather than the story like in a book

 

[Tiny Turtle]

I find that characters really take the cake. No matter how interesting a plot is, if you've got bad characters I find that the roleplay doesn't move forward simply out of boredom. Although everything needs to be in moderation because if you've got a flimsy plot it's a lot harder to go forward in the roleplay and make good characters. So yeah. Good characters can carry a plot, but I don't think it works both ways, although this is just my own personal opinion on it.

 

[QuirkyAngel]

[QUOTE="Tiny Turtle]I find that characters really take the cake. No matter how interesting a plot is, if you've got bad characters I find that the roleplay doesn't move forward simply out of boredom. Although everything needs to be in moderation because if you've got a flimsy plot it's a lot harder to go forward in the roleplay and make good characters. So yeah. Good characters can carry a plot, but I don't think it works both ways, although this is just my own personal opinion on it.

[/QUOTE]
I was rping with a gm who had a fully fleshed out world and liked to slam npcs in people's faces. I rolled with the punches=P Eventually it became a 1x1 cause other rpers dropped out due to personal reasons. I stuck through it cause it was an interesting world, saw the end of the rp, had my formerly bland character save the world, and enjoyed myself. I think whether an rp moves forward has to do with activity and dedication rather than bad characters or plot. Good characters can keep someone in an rp, but a good plot can keep you hooked too(so long as the gm has things planned out). Or maybe that's just me

 

[Spacekitty]

This debate shall never en lol


But I'm totally right regardless