Atheism and Fallacies (Please move to Personal Discussions tab!)

[Ferociousfeind]

Fallacies are fun, especially when you find them in your opponent's arguments.


I'm also an atheist, looking for a reasonable argument for believing in the Christian God.


My challenge to you is to present said argument OR an argument on why Evolution is false, without using any of the following fallacies: (source: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/)


STRAWMAN (0)


FALSE CAUSE (0)


APPEAL TO EMOTION (0)


SLIPPERY SLOPE (0)


AD HOMINEM (0)


TU QUOQUE (0)


PERSONAL INCREDULITY (0)


SPECIAL PLEADING (0)


LOADED QUESTION (0)


BURDEN OF PROOF (0)


AMBIGUITY (0)


GAMBLER'S FALLACY (0)


BANDWAGON (0)


APPEAL TO AUTHORITY (0)


COMPOSITION/DIVISION (0)


NO TRUE SCOTSMAN (0)


GENETIC (0)


EITHER-OR (0)


BEGGING THE QUESTION (a really, REALLY fun one) (0)


APPEAL TO NATURE (0)


ANECDOTAL (also a really fun one to use) (0)


TEXAS SHARPSHOOTER (0)


MIDDLE GROUND (0)


After each fallacy is the total amount of Atheist Dollars I've accumulated due to each one.


Those of whom with sharp eyes will notice I left out the Fallacy Fallacy. I believe that it is obsoleted through Either-Or, Burden of Proof, and Tu Quoque.


For every fallacy I point out, you have to pay me one Atheist Dollar. "What is an Atheist Dollar...?" You may be hesitant to ask, beginning to sense the irony in its nature.


"WELL I'M GLAD YOU ASKED!" I say in such a way that makes you instantly regret asking, "An Atheist Dollar is an invisible, intangible object that gives off no scent or taste, does not create a gravitational field, does not create a magnetic field, does not absorb or give off heat, and is otherwise completely undetectable. You just have to trust me that they exist."


No flame wars please, any flame wars will be attributed to me, and I don't want that.


Now that that's all cleared up, how about we begin?

 

[SimpleGuy]

I'm not gonna try to convince you the christian god is real even though it is what I believe because I just don't wanna. I will however tell you my one problem with evolution:


If we as a species have evolved for survival purposes where is my third arm? I could carry more food with an extra arm I could fight harder with an extra arm I could work faster and harder with a third arm. All in all a third arm would help me survive a whole lot. What about wings? Shit those would help a whole lot. Why are women born with only one vagina instead of two? Its like the saying two heads are better than one only very very literal. On the topic of that why don't we humans have two brains or two hearts? Surly that would help survival and absolute fuck ton right?


That is just my one problem with evolution. Other than that the theory is super solid but that just doesn't make too much sense to me.

 

[Ferociousfeind]

I'm not gonna try to convince you the christian god is real even though it is what I believe because I just don't wanna. I will however tell you my one problem with evolution:


If we as a species have evolved for survival purposes where is my third arm? I could carry more food with an extra arm I could fight harder with an extra arm I could work faster and harder with a third arm. All in all a third arm would help me survive a whole lot. What about wings? Shit those would help a whole lot. Why are women born with only one vagina instead of two? Its like the saying two heads are better than one only very very literal. On the topic of that why don't we humans have two brains or two hearts? Surly that would help survival and absolute fuck ton right?


That is just my one problem with evolution. Other than that the theory is super solid but that just doesn't make too much sense to me.

Hmm. Nothing fallacious. Glad to see some opposition! However, I'd  like to point out the redundancy of a an extra arm/leg/heart/brain, and it's maintenance costs greatly out weight the benefits. Combined with the fact that those are very large changes. Millipeeds, for example, won't begin giving birth to millipeeds with wings because it is beneficial, because that is such a radical change. If there WAS some freakish genetic mutation that gave them wings, then those new winged millipeeds would either die because the maintenance cost of the wings is more than the extra energy the millipeed can scoop up because of it, or they wipe out wingless millipeeds because the wingless variants can't compete with the newer, more successful winged millipeeds.


Kudos, however, for bringing up such a critical point! I dearly wish for you to continue questioning the world around you: you might discover something amazing because of it. =)

 

[SimpleGuy]

Hmm. Nothing fallacious. Glad to see some opposition! However, I'd  like to point out the redundancy of a an extra arm/leg/heart/brain, and it's maintenance costs greatly out weight the benefits. Combined with the fact that those are very large changes. Millipeeds, for example, won't begin giving birth to millipeeds with wings because it is beneficial, because that is such a radical change. If there WAS some freakish genetic mutation that gave them wings, then those new winged millipeeds would either die because the maintenance cost of the wings is more than the extra energy the millipeed can scoop up because of it, or they wipe out wingless millipeeds because the wingless variants can't compete with the newer, more successful winged millipeeds.


Cups, however, for bringing up such a critical point! I dearly wish for you to continue questioning the world around you: you might discover something amazing because of it. =)

True true but with theory of evolution you also gotta believe that humans have been around for billions of years (or some other huge number) So yes as of right now such a drastic change would be terrible but over millions or billions of years wouldn't we evolve to be able to be able to function more efficiently with the extra stuff? Like wouldn't the maintenance cost go down as our bodies would adapt and evolve to more efficiently use said addition? 


On on the topic of god since I have a small thing to add to that, I am a Christian and if I'm honest I don't give a shit what you believe. I also know that no matter what I say it can never change your mind. If you wanna believe then you will and when you do you'll justify it on your own. Religion and science are two very different beasts and when you try to use one to solve the other it only causes more problems and more differences. We have all seen people try to disprove religion with science but what about vise versa? What if I said that because god is real (assuming he is) then evolution doesn't happen to humans. 


Religion is rooted in blind faith where as science is rooted in facts. You cannot prove blind faith to someone who does not have it and you cannot prove a fact to someone who is close minded. You get what I mean?

 

[Count Gensokyo]

All this is really leaving a sour taste in my mouth. 


@ferociousfeind @TheBlackSwordsman

 

[Grey]

This does seem like some seriously ill-intentioned intellectual posturing. 

 

[Count Gensokyo]

@ferociousfeind, why's this in "forum games", of all places? At the very least, you should move this to general with an "opinion" tag. At the most, you can move to PM with @TheBlackSwordsman.

 

[Ferociousfeind]

@ferociousfeind, why's this in "forum games", of all places? At the very least, you should move this to general with an "opinion" tag. At the most, you can move to PM with @TheBlackSwordsman.

Hrmmm. I had this debate in my head, and (wrongly) decided it was more of a game than a Personal Discussion. Writing large pieces of text pretty late at night can really catch you off guard... I guess it does belong more to Personal Discussion, or possibly some other subforum I overlooked.

 

[Grey]

Hrmmm. I had this debate in my head, and (wrongly) decided it was more of a game than a Personal Discussion. Writing large pieces of text pretty late at night can really catch you off guard... I guess it does belong more to Personal Discussion, or possibly some other subforum I overlooked.

Have you considered the merits of taking it to Reddit?

 

[Ferociousfeind]

Reddit...?

Spoiler

 

[CupAndCough]

This whole thread is created under the pretense of baiting a response of any form. though I was expecting a shitstorm, I was sorely disappointed. Anyways.....Uh. Fuck I dunno. This is shitposting.

 

[Ferociousfeind]

Sorry to disappoint. Also I've  noticed lately my default writing "personality" is fairly aggressive and "these are the facts, this is why, Fite me b0i". Gonna have to work on taming that the next time I ingite a Holy War.

 

[Wixard]

I'll fite ewe! *tackles* what're we fightin' about? How did I get here?

 

[Autumn McJavabean]

The theory of evolution doesn't demand you believe we've been around for billions of years. Historical record says we've been here, what, 200k roughly? It's in the thousands. Evolution only says that species adapt to change such as by outside force. It's a slow process and compared to our ancestors, we're pretty advanced. You're the most self aware species we know, you are capable of immensely complex ideas like math, you can build and record information and communicate with your species.


were not perfect because evolution is not perfect. 


You can argue that because of God therefor evolution is false, but that's be very ignorant as you're attempting to dismiss something with mountains of evidence and pretty much considered a fact at this point by scientists and casuals, with something that has none and is simply rationalized. Science is about measuring and learning about reality through observation and experiment. Science will always trump faith in what is real. It's the only logical outcome.

 

[Count Gensokyo]

Wow, the circle-jerking is real here, isn't it?


This thread still isn't moved?

 

[Idea]

There is a very simple reason why evolution , while I don't  believe it is false nor does it in any way dismiss the existence of God , is at the very least, unfounded. And that is because the mechanics of evolution, as described , have no actual tangible basis. That is, nothing among the assumed proof to support evolution leads one to the conclusions taken about it. 


Do note I am only saying that one has no evidence to actually support evolution AS DESCRIBED and on a physical level. Logically speaking, evolution makes a ton of sense and I am certainly one who believes in that ingenious theory by Darwin, later improved by modern technology , mainly through the acquire knowledge of genes. However, the specific mechanics of evolution take too long to have a solid observable mark and any so-called "mark" that proves this is but circumstantial evidence. It only supports the theory once it is assumed.