A Theory on Vampiric Reproduction

[Elowyn]

So I need someone to critique my theory of vampiric reproduction. This is a basic outline:

1. Vampires have different types of venom
   
2. each type of venom does different things
   
3. 2 types of vampires are possible to create:
   
   
   Pureblood-2 vampires needed, one male, one female
   
   
   needs to be a mated pair or their venom, once both parties bite the human, will compete and destroy the body
   
4. vamps must be over 75 years, or have fully matured venom and full control over injection
   
5. both must bite a human child who has not gone through the stage of puberty
   
6. if successful, the child will turn into a vampire child with strong powers, abilities, and venom and grow up as a vampire Pureblood
   
7. full maturity and independence reached at the age of 25
   

[*]Turnblood 

1. 
   
   1 vampire needed, gender does not matter
   
2. must be over 50 years, or have some control over venom, and have the secondary venom (not feeding venom) 
   
3. humans who are depressed, have given up on life, are weak or malnourished, are old, are addicted are particularly easily to "Turn"
   
4. if venom is not strong enough, the human body will try to fight the venom and destroy itself resulting in death
   
5. results in a vampire who is subject to their sire's will for a time, initially not as strong as a full-blooded vampire
   
6. easier transition if they have been giving blood to a vampire for years
   
7. eventually, depending on the individual, gain limited powers. rarely do Turnbloods exceed Purebloods in terms of status, power, or venom strength
   

[*]Hybrids- extremely rare

1. 
   
   happens if a male vampire drinks blood of sexually mature female human
   
2. then goes through ordinary human intercourse
   
3. possible to conceive a half-vampire, half-human
   
4. child will be pale, weak without blood. will need blood to supplement ordinary human diet
   
5. usually die quickly without protection, rejected from society
   
6. rarely have powers, may have heightened senses and some self-healing abilities. cannot ever turn someone into a vampire.
   

 

[NemoTheSurvivor]

Pureblood questions: How does the venom know the two vampires turning the human are mated? Are female vampires infertile, or can they give birth to purebloods? Do purebloods have two types of venom?


Turned questions: You mentioned two types of venom, a feeding venom and a "turning" venom. How/when does this secondary venom normally manifest itself? As for control, does it just come with age or does it need to be practiced (or both)?


Hybrid questions: Does the vampire have to have intercourse with the same woman he drank blood from? How outcast are hybrids (will parents disown them, will vampires try to kill them on sight, are they just given crap jobs and not recognized for their achievements)? What happens if a female vampire drinks a mature male's blood then has intercourse?

 

[Knightling]

So what if a male and a female vampire simply have intercourse? Will they conceive a pure-blood?

 

[Elowyn]

Pureblood questions: How does the venom know the two vampires turning the human are mated? Are female vampires infertile, or can they give birth to purebloods? Do purebloods have two types of venom?


Turned questions: You mentioned two types of venom, a feeding venom and a "turning" venom. How/when does this secondary venom normally manifest itself? As for control, does it just come with age or does it need to be practiced (or both)?


Hybrid questions: Does the vampire have to have intercourse with the same woman he drank blood from? How outcast are hybrids (will parents disown them, will vampires try to kill them on sight, are they just given crap jobs and not recognized for their achievements)? What happens if a female vampire drinks a mature male's blood then has intercourse?

Thanks for your feedback. My responses are as below:


The vampiric mating ritual is essentially the "wedding" in a sense. That's the best way to describe it. It consists of two parts: one, Society must recognize the two as a mated pair (usually done before a Council), and two, they share blood by biting the other. There is a special mating venom that builds up and can only be released once. It will not be replenished. Vampires have one mate for life. 


I'm going to go with the vampires are technically not living species. They are almost parasitic or similar to a virus, although their heart still works to pump blood and their brains work. Vampires do not give birth. The undead Children of Night (vamps) cannot give birth the way living creatures do. Like I said, there a multiple types of venom. They will start out with one and gain different types as they age and mature. 


It's all about intention. They are able to dictate what their venom does to a degree by switching which type of venom they use. (how they do so is not clear to me and probably won't matter too much). Control comes with both age and practice. They can experiment and adjust how much venom they inject and even how concentrated it is. So for a young child you wouldn't need as much venom as a full grown adult. 


In a word: yes. It depends on the Society and culture. Although there are some universal things Vampires will all do and subscribe to, there are still differences in culture and location and environment. Society will 99% give them the Mark of Rejection, and they will be essentially ostracized. (i have more details on Rejection which is not related to mating/procreation). As to what the parents do, it depends. 


As I said before, Vampires cannot reproduce the way humans do. They are undead and their eggs are not viable, their reproductive organs are not active. Nothing will happen in this case.


Anything else?

So what if a male and a female vampire simply have intercourse? Will they conceive a pure-blood?

See above answer. 

 

[NemoTheSurvivor]

As I said before, Vampires cannot reproduce the way humans do. They are undead and their eggs are not viable, their reproductive organs are not active. Nothing will happen in this case.

So, now the question is, if the reproduction organs do not work, how can a male vampire impregnate a female human?


As for everything else, you seem to have thought it through.

 

[Elowyn]

So, now the question is, if the reproduction organs do not work, how can a male vampire impregnate a female human?


As for everything else, you seem to have thought it through.

So in that case I make an exception... basically I'm thinking that since other major organs work the reproductive system may kick in if the female is able to become pregnant at that time that will trigger a like reaction from the male (vestiges of his human origin). That's why it's so rare, because there are so many things that can go wrong. 


It's also rare for social reasons. Vampiric "elitists" consider humans little more than prey and would be horrified by such an encounter. Others aren't so crude, but still don't intermix with humans in a sexual way, although seduction is a common tactic to gain more bloodsources.

 

[NemoTheSurvivor]

So in that case I make an exception... basically I'm thinking that since other major organs work the reproductive system may kick in if the female is able to become pregnant at that time that will trigger a like reaction from the male (vestiges of his human origin). That's why it's so rare, because there are so many things that can go wrong. 

So, because all other major organs work, the reproductive ones will sometimes work. I still don't see why this cannot also be true for female vampires, since it could theoretically happen with them too. While there's nothing wrong with saying that male vamps can get human chicks pregnant, but female vamps cannot get pregnant, the current reasoning isn't logically sound since you haven't identified the reason why sterility only affects females.


If there was a different reason (the baby will actively kill the mother, the body absorbs the excretion like blood, etc.), then I could understand. However, if the male vamps can have their reproductions system kick in when near a mature female, there's no reason the opposite cannot be true.

 

[Elowyn]

So, because all other major organs work, the reproductive ones will sometimes work. I still don't see why this cannot also be true for female vampires, since it could theoretically happen with them too. While there's nothing wrong with saying that male vamps can get human chicks pregnant, but female vamps cannot get pregnant, the current reasoning isn't logically sound since you haven't identified the reason why sterility only affects females.


If there was a different reason (the baby will actively kill the mother, the body absorbs the excretion like blood, etc.), then I could understand. However, if the male vamps can have their reproductions system kick in when near a mature female, there's no reason the opposite cannot be true.

I think it has more to do with the biological strain that comes from carrying a child than with sterility per se. And the social aspect of things. It would just be too much difficulty on female vampires. And even if the male was able to enter the female (okay this is getting R rated), his sperm might not be viable. They have technically been undead for a number of years. They may or may not be able to actually have sex because blood is usually diffused over the entire body of the vampire and would not rush to the pelvic area. They would need a lot of blood to even get to this stage (another reason to take the human's blood). Since vamps only drink blood and can't digest human food, the nutrients would also not be there for the fetus. As to how the blood goes from digestive to circulatory system... their biological systems are different than humans etc. etc. scientific lingo that may or may not be possible.   


Again, this is EXTREMELY rare. 

 

[Grey]

Do you have a solid metaphysical underpinning for how vampires work?  I can't divine the underlying reason for why your vampires would work this way - the venoms, the mating, etc.  It's really weird how you've got a mix of hard biological reasons and fiat magical ones that don't seem to adhere to any folklore, tradition, or mythopoeia.  At least none that I know of; the only vampire fiction I've encountered that heavily features 'venoms' are I believe Darren Shan (which had some bizarre time-travel alien thing going on IIRC) and Twilight, which... less said the better.


I am reminded of how the rare process of creating a dhampir in Vampire: The Requiem works - the male vampire has to be utterly gorged on blood and make a special effort of will to cause a conception, while a female vampire has to spend months gorged on blood to sustain the pregnancy.  But it's an inherently mystical process and I half-remember that sexual characteristics actually don't matter in this case (although impregnating a male explicitly had fatal and horrific results, but it's been a while since I read it).


The dhampir themselves were just ordinary people who brought disaster to vampires around them without even noticing, really. 

 

[NemoTheSurvivor]

Since vamps only drink blood and can't digest human food, the nutrients would also not be there for the fetus.

Why not? A fetus takes nutrients from the mother, so as long as the mother can draw nutrients from blood, the baby will be sustained. Plus the baby is a vampire baby and will need blood to survive anyway, so it is plausible.


This brings up the issue of a hybrid in a human female. Hybrids need blood, but if a human ingests blood, the body treats it like a poison. Meaning the hybrid baby wouldn't get the blood it needs to survive in the womb.


It's a paradox, really. Vampire gets pregnant, can't feed hybrid with food. Human gets pregnant, can't sustain hybrid with blood.

They may or may not be able to actually have sex because blood is usually diffused over the entire body of the vampire and would not rush to the pelvic area. They would need a lot of blood to even get to this stage (another reason to take the human's blood).

Which means it would be more likely for a hybrid to happen between a male human and female vampire because the male is, well, alive.

Again, this is EXTREMELY rare. 

I understand it is rare, but that doesn't explain why a male and a female, both who have 90% of their organs working off ingested blood, have their reproductive organs acting so differently. You mention the strain it would put on the female, but not what the strain is or how it would negatively affect her. And social status is different from biological reasoning, and social norms change while biological functions don't, so that's not a valid excuse.

 

[Elowyn]

Why not? A fetus takes nutrients from the mother, so as long as the mother can draw nutrients from blood, the baby will be sustained. Plus the baby is a vampire baby and will need blood to survive anyway, so it is plausible.

The thing is, I don't think a steady diet of blood is the best thing to rear a fetus on. Correct me if I'm wrong, but biologically the mother has to go through a lot of changes and I'm not sure if the vampire body can tolerate those changes (physical, chemical, etc.). They'll be a mix, which is more complicated. I think it works if the human mother can get it the nutrient it needs off of a diverse human diet with nutrients and all that. They're often born very weak and need blood within the first 24 hours after birth. 

Which means it would be more likely for a hybrid to happen between a male human and female vampire because the male is, well, alive.


I understand it is rare, but that doesn't explain why a male and a female, both who have 90% of their organs working off ingested blood, have their reproductive organs acting so differently. You mention the strain it would put on the female, but not what the strain is or how it would negatively affect her. And social status is different from biological reasoning, and social norms change while biological functions don't, so that's not a valid excuse.

I'm not sure what you mean...? Either way you would need blood to suffuse the pelvic area/reproduction organs. 


I have a feeling it's less than 90% of organs... IDK how much, I need more scientific knowledge to determine this. Also, it's because reproduction isn't central to their day-to-day living. It's extra, and why activate them if they can just reproduce through venom? Yes, yes. I KNOW biology and sociology are different, but they definitely can affect each other. Do YOU want to mate with your dog? The vast majority would answer... no. Yes, I know a dog and a symbiont are different but basically that's the social equivalent (to the majority of the population). You may love your dog. You may take care of each other. But inter-species mating that way is just a no-no. 

 

[Elowyn]

Do you have a solid metaphysical underpinning for how vampires work?  I can't divine the underlying reason for why your vampires would work this way - the venoms, the mating, etc.  It's really weird how you've got a mix of hard biological reasons and fiat magical ones that don't seem to adhere to any folklore, tradition, or mythopoeia.  At least none that I know of; the only vampire fiction I've encountered that heavily features 'venoms' are I believe Darren Shan (which had some bizarre time-travel alien thing going on IIRC) and Twilight, which... less said the better.


I am reminded of how the rare process of creating a dhampir in Vampire: The Requiem works - the male vampire has to be utterly gorged on blood and make a special effort of will to cause a conception, while a female vampire has to spend months gorged on blood to sustain the pregnancy.  But it's an inherently mystical process and I half-remember that sexual characteristics actually don't matter in this case (although impregnating a male explicitly had fatal and horrific results, but it's been a while since I read it).


The dhampir themselves were just ordinary people who brought disaster to vampires around them without even noticing, really. 

Some of this (venom and whatnot) is drawn from Octavia Butler's novel Fledgling, if that helps at all. What do you mean by "really weird?" I want to be semi-original. That's what I'm going for. I don't want to draw exclusively from either science or traditional folklore. Hence, it's my version of vampires. 


Okay. That's interesting. I've never seen/read Vampire: The Requiem, but I've looked at one or two of the wiki fandom pages. That would be essentially how it would work out. Really wasteful and unsustainable when put into practice. 

 

[Grey]

I mean really weird because it seems like a grab-bag of ideas without an underlying thematic or metaphysical logic.  You half-draw from science and half from a novel, but the two don't mesh and neither does one explicitly supersede the other for some reason.


I've never heard of Fledgling, but reading the Wiki page, everything about the design of the Ina serves a specific narrative and philosophical purpose (it actually sounds really good and I'll have to check it out).  They're barely vampires, which is not criticism-a lot of vampire stories I really like push the definition of vampire-and this is critically part of both the plot and subtext.


Basically, I cannot see why vampires work they way they do here.  Is it a curse? A mutation?  Why venom?  Why mated pairs?  It's fine to admit if you just use them because you think they're cool, or even just because you liked them in in Fledgeling, but if that's the case you should maybe consume more vampire fiction. A lot more.  Originality is not enough by itself and is furthermore basically impossible; you'd be better off seeing what other writers have done and learning from them, so you can try to identify an empty space for your vampires to fill, or an interesting combinatiion of other ideas, or maybe it'll inspire something unique for you.


Thinking about it, by combining Butler's Ina with these somewhat more traditional vampire tropes and the pseudo-sexual reproductive model is a huge step backward from what she achieved. 


I'm absolutely not saying give up, and I really don't mean to be dismissive or insulting, but I think you're limiting yourself from achieving a lot more. 


Have you read my article about vampires in fiction? It's not the last word by any account, but it might be useful - especially if you decide to find interesting ways to break the paradigms I've outlined. 

 

[NemoTheSurvivor]

The thing is, I don't think a steady diet of blood is the best thing to rear a fetus on.

It's a vampire. Vampires live on blood alone. Why would a baby vampire be the exception? Hybrids are different, but the point remains: a fetus takes nutrients from the mother to survive. How the mother got said nutrients is irrelevant. Vampires turn blood into nutrients (much like a plant turns sunlight into nutrients), and the baby then feeds off the mother's supply. Yes, the mother may have to take more, but so do human mothers with human babies.

I'm not sure what you mean...? Either way you would need blood to suffuse the pelvic area/reproduction organs. 

A male vamp needs blood to have his gear functioning, and even then it might still not work. A male human is going to have working gear regardless. Thus, it would be up to the female vamp to luck out and have nondead eggs. If male vamps can do it, it would only make sense for female vamps to behave in the same way biologically.

Do YOU want to mate with your dog? The vast majority would answer... no. Yes, I know a dog and a symbiont are different but basically that's the social equivalent (to the majority of the population). You may love your dog. You may take care of each other. But inter-species mating that way is just a no-no. 

Just because it's "socially unacceptable" doesn't mean people won't do it. You might not like it, but that doesn't mean your neighbor hates it too. On that note, what makes a male vamp and a female human different from a female vamp and a male human in terms of social views? If you're opening up the door for males to do it, why say that females can't because of "social norms"? In fact, having people challenge the norms will be a great way to add depth and drama to the roleplay. So, again, social reasons are not an arguing point.

 

[Elowyn]

@NemoTheSurvivor 


I guess my qualms stem from the fact that essentially you'd have life coming from unlife. And I don't think that the Vampire body is created to procreate in that way. The sperm and ova wouldn't be alive... And human reproductive organs would probably shut down soon after because they don't need it. This version of Vamps is essentially that they are magical beings but also rely on biological functions. Without the blood they drain from a source they are a hollow shell that cannot do anything, so they survive off of living things. 


You ask: "Why would a baby vampire be the exception?" Theoretically they could survive off blood alone, but I'm not savvy with two non-living creatures coming together to create another life. They just wouldn't feel the desire to have sex the way humans do. This human desire would be replaced by the desire to feed to survive. Vampires can be seen as an abomination of nature, so a twisted version of humans to the point where they are separate from human. Also, these vampires are a solitary species. They don't feel the need for companionship nearly as much as humans do. They come together to raise offspring but may go back to their original territory/property after the children are gone if they want. 


Consider this: when humans mate they have no inclination to open a wound on their partner and drink their blood. The opposite would be true for vampires. Does that make sense?


Here's a helpful quote I read:


Vampires are dead… Their bodies are essentially corpses held in stasis by some evil magic fueled by the life force they draw by drinking human blood. As romanticized as they are, Vampire sex is kinda revolting if you think about it. Besides, most movies and books agree that their reproductive organs don’t actually work. I mean, mechanically maybe they do. But vampires would not actually be able to conceive a child since they don’t produce sperm or ova. They reproduce by turning other people into vampires.” 


Also, it's not about social norms or breaking social norms. In Vampiric society (at least for my storyline), their society is MUCH more organized and hierarchical with a line of power, to the degree that an Elder Vampire may order a young vampire to stop moving and he would have to almost involuntarily (voluntary actions only). They preserve the power structure well, which is why there is a formal Rejection of anyone who breaks the Laws of Society. Meaning they must leave and are open to being killed by any vampire they encounter without penalty.


Trust me, Nemo, they wouldn't do that especially if it endangers their social status, which is directly related to property and power. Trust me.  


@Grey


They call themselves the Infernari or Children of the Night in my story. They are definitely different from traditional vampires.


I guess this is kind of a cross-genre thing. Admittedly I haven't read much vampire literature. I've never read the Twilight series. Just made up what makes sense in my mind. I don't really understand why you think it's not sufficient...? 


Also, can you post a link to your writing about vampires? That could be helpful. Thanks!  

 

[Grey]

Infernari

So an implied connection to hell or demons?

Children of the Night

An intentional reference to Stoker, or post-Stoker references?


Neither really addresses my post, anyway, so I'll take that as a dismissal and busy myself elsewhere.  Good luck. 

 

[Elowyn]

So an implied connection to hell or demons?


An intentional reference to Stoker, or post-Stoker references?


Neither really addresses my post, anyway, so I'll take that as a dismissal and busy myself elsewhere.  Good luck. 

Yes. I'm thinking human who wandered into the hell/inferno/hades plane, somehow survived through willpower mostly, with luck and power or something like that. 


What is Stoker? So... no. 

 

[NemoTheSurvivor]

So, if vampires are unable to reproduce at all through human means, and the act of intercourse with a human is so far out of the norm with such an extreme punishment that it's practically suicide, why mention hybrids at all? Why even have them an option?


Here's why I'm drilling you about this one subject. I see plenty of RP's with human - vampire hybrids where the GM makes them incredibly rare, meaning the GM and one other person can play as them (the other person either a friend of the GM or someone who's going to help extend their ego). Then, the Hybrids are necessary to save the school/planet/etc. With the way you have hybrids set up, it seemed too similar to the ones I've seen. I was pushing you to see how much you thought it through.

 

[Grey]

What is Stoker?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dracula

 

[Elowyn]

So, if vampires are unable to reproduce at all through human means, and the act of intercourse with a human is so far out of the norm with such an extreme punishment that it's practically suicide, why mention hybrids at all? Why even have them an option?


Here's why I'm drilling you about this one subject. I see plenty of RP's with human - vampire hybrids where the GM makes them incredibly rare, meaning the GM and one other person can play as them (the other person either a friend of the GM or someone who's going to help extend their ego). Then, the Hybrids are necessary to save the school/planet/etc. With the way you have hybrids set up, it seemed too similar to the ones I've seen. I was pushing you to see how much you thought it through.

Yes, that's right. I change my earlier thought. I think it wouldn't make sense to suddenly become sexually active again. Potentially, if the Vampire typed we're talking about is a living organism it would be possible but in this case it is not. Thanks for helping me get to this point. I mention hybrids because it has been done before (once to my knowledge). Perhaps the mother was pregnant when turned and the infant survived. Does that make sense? Would that work? Or maybe some modern science or artificial insemination? Gene splicing? Experimentation? Hm... this is so long ago they wouldn't have that. So perhaps something weird happened. I'll think about it later. 


Good to know your reason. Here's the actual situation: this is just a theory I'm decided whether or not to implement on a QUEST-STYLE role-play I created. I will not be playing a character, and my so called 'friends' have only the same voting power as anyone else. The individual I'm making a hybrid or vampire turning gone wrong is an old man living as a recluse near an abandoned settlement. Can't give too much away on this site because one of the players could potentially see this, but it's important to the plot. Also, the individual character being played will not be saving the school or planet. Period.  

 

[Alexandra]

I guess this is kind of a cross-genre thing. Admittedly I haven't read much vampire literature. I've never read the Twilight series. Just made up what makes sense in my mind. I don't really understand why you think it's not sufficient...? 

I don't believe Grey is implying that "making stuff up" is insufficient. Ultimately all fiction writing is "making stuff up".
What he's getting at is consistency, and intelligent creature design. You've given us the rules for how they reproduce, but I can't give you any feedback until I know why you made these choices. Like, do they have a creation myth; did they evolve, was it a mystical curse, a disease with unexpected side effects on some people, mad scientific experiments? 


And when it comes to the suggestion of reading a bunch of vampire literature; it's always given with the intent of inspiring you, and providing really excellent examples of well thought out mythologies. Creating something in a vacuum means we are more likely to come up with a pale imitation of something already out there, and asking for constructive feedback means you will absolutely be compared to existent fiction similar to your own; being aware of this fiction means you can make your work better.
Grey's So You Want to Write is here, scroll down for the section on Vampires near the end. Vampires always exist as a metaphor, so figure out what your vamps mean before anything else.
I hesitate to start rattling off different vampire mythologies and media here, as they are numerous. Really numerous, ranging from completely magical and curse-based, to very scientific, to alien parasites. I will however leave you with a link to Our Vampires are Different on TV Tropes; looooots of suggestions for media there ~

 

[Elowyn]

I don't believe Grey is implying that "making stuff up" is insufficient. Ultimately all fiction writing is "making stuff up".
What he's getting at is consistency, and intelligent creature design. You've given us the rules for how they reproduce, but I can't give you any feedback until I know why you made these choices. Like, do they have a creation myth; did they evolve, was it a mystical curse, a disease with unexpected side effects on some people, mad scientific experiments? 


And when it comes to the suggestion of reading a bunch of vampire literature; it's always given with the intent of inspiring you, and providing really excellent examples of well thought out mythologies. Creating something in a vacuum means we are more likely to come up with a pale imitation of something already out there, and asking for constructive feedback means you will absolutely be compared to existent fiction similar to your own; being aware of this fiction means you can make your work better.
Grey's So You Want to Write is here, scroll down for the section on Vampires near the end. Vampires always exist as a metaphor, so figure out what your vamps mean before anything else.
I hesitate to start rattling off different vampire mythologies and media here, as they are numerous. Really numerous, ranging from completely magical and curse-based, to very scientific, to alien parasites. I will however leave you with a link to Our Vampires are Different on TV Tropes; looooots of suggestions for media there ~

OKAY, thank you for elaborating on Grey's statement. Essentially the original vampire was human but was cursed to venture in the Lower Realms (think hades/sheol type deal) for fifty years. His time there changed and warped him in many ways. However, he survived and returned to Earth. Here history and mythology starts to get fuzzy. Some say that he was returned to the exact moment he left and that nobody had noticed he was gone. Others say that he was returned hundreds of years in the future. Despite their differences, they agree that the man was no longer the same. He had cravings for raw meat at first, then when that did not satisfy him, he demanded animal blood... which eventually led to human blood. In the end he Turned his wife into one of his own, a similar creature of the night and a blood-drinker as well. In short, he was cursed and his curse was passed on to his children. Not sure what he did to deserve that punishment because it must have been really bad... Anyway, I'll probably end up changing it later haha!


Yeah, I got that much. I know the general lore on vampires like tall, gaunt, usually white male possibly with red eyes or slit pupils. Drinks blood. Rivals with werewolves. Weak to garlic, crosses, holy water, attacks that pierce the heart, decapitation, burning... weakness to sunlight, turn into bats/wolves... So did it turn into an imitation of an existing version? If so, what?


Thanks for the link. 'Preciate it. I could also go the evolutionary route of a separate species evolving alongside humans with a common ancestor. I guess in my version Vampires are supposed to be the dark side of humans...? Not creative, parasitic. Nocturnal rather than diurnal. 


Great. I'll take a look at all the links above.

 

[Alexandra]

OKAY, thank you for elaborating on Grey's statement. Essentially the original vampire was human but was cursed to venture in the Lower Realms (think hades/sheol type deal) for fifty years. His time there changed and warped him in many ways. However, he survived and returned to Earth. Here history and mythology starts to get fuzzy. Some say that he was returned to the exact moment he left and that nobody had noticed he was gone. Others say that he was returned hundreds of years in the future. Despite their differences, they agree that the man was no longer the same. He had cravings for raw meat at first, then when that did not satisfy him, he demanded animal blood... which eventually led to human blood. In the end he Turned his wife into one of his own, a similar creature of the night and a blood-drinker as well. In short, he was cursed and his curse was passed on to his children. Not sure what he did to deserve that punishment because it must have been really bad... Anyway, I'll probably end up changing it later haha!


Yeah, I got that much. I know the general lore on vampires like tall, gaunt, usually white male possibly with red eyes or slit pupils. Drinks blood. Rivals with werewolves. Weak to garlic, crosses, holy water, attacks that pierce the heart, decapitation, burning... weakness to sunlight, turn into bats/wolves... So did it turn into an imitation of an existing version? If so, what?


Thanks for the link. 'Preciate it. I could also go the evolutionary route of a separate species evolving alongside humans with a common ancestor. I guess in my version Vampires are supposed to be the dark side of humans...? Not creative, parasitic. Nocturnal rather than diurnal. 


Great. I'll take a look at all the links above.

Awesome, that's a good start.


If you don't want to make it an actual curse, it would be easy to simply have had the Lower Realms warp him, either due to their innate weird energies affecting a mortal body, or him picking up some kind of parasite that warped or bonded with him. It might appear to be a curse to the humans he returned to, but either way he's different.
In order to really bring your vampiric siring and reproduction in line, you're gonna have to figure out if his affliction is spiritual (magic), or physiological (so you'll have to work out the biology). At the moment, the myth and the reproductive mechanics don't really line up.


I'd suggest going for a bonding with some kind of extra-dimensional creature, hell, the original vampire might not even realise what happened to him; only know that he changed.  Physiological changes could include the mutation of internal organs into a digestive system that can process human blood as a food source, and the growth of venom sacs. Have as much or as little venom as you want, as many variations as you like. I'd suggest starting with two; one general one that maybe produces a soporific effect to subdue victims...ooh, you could include short-term memory loss if you wanted it to help keep the victims from knowing what happened to them. Siring "venom" is an interesting idea, and so is the idea that it gets more concentrated and refined as the vampire ages.


The Pureblood method is a little weird; it seems to be heavily couched in culturally-specific (almost magical) ritual, and doesn't seem to match up with the more scientific methods further down. I'd consider stripping away unnecessary complications, and suggest you be careful including such specifically hetero-normative circumstances for the creation; these are new creatures after all, you can afford to move away from such human constraints.

 

[jinkx]

Is this a place where I can post my theory that vampires are not in fact immortal? In fact, while they show no visible signs of aging, vampires do age just like humans. But it happens so slowly that it's almost impossible to notice. Unless they are killed by other terms, at a certain age, they will just die of being poisoned by the venom that turned them in the first place. This is linked to my theory that vampires aren't actually undead but in a state between life and death like purgatory. When the human is bitten by a vampire, venom is injected into their blood stream that penetrates the heart and while the venom gives them supernatural abilities, it also slowly poisons the heart from the inside. It also transforms the body so the vampire does not appear to age. Therefore, after a certain amount of time, a vampire will die of being poisoned from the inside. I just think it would be really cool if this was true instead of them just "being immortal". 


Also, if you apply the theory that vampires are not dead and in fact somewhere between life and death, they could theoretically reproduce, right? By this, I mean using scientific methods like IVF, it could maybe be possible. I don't know, the ideas of vampires reproducing at all has always been kind of pointless to me. The child itself would surely have an awful life. 

 

[Grey]

Those theories seem hella specific to one setting, Jinkx, and at that point are they theories or just elements of worldbuilding?


My favourite instance of venom and vampires is the Cult of the Spider in Heroes of Might & Magic.


Asha is the goddess of creation, and one of her aspects is Death, and her power manifests as the sacred Namtaru; the demigod spider-women who are her avatars.


Necromancers who have ascended to the peak of the cult as Liches receive the holy venom of the Namtaru which, in an excruciating ritual, cleanses them of all weakness and infirmity and petrifies their organs.  The venom replaces the blood of the Akhkharu, and they must dilute it with human blood regularly lest it consume them.