Opinion Thoughts of a Pro-Lifer

[Rachael of the Shire]

I consider myself pro life. I believe it is never ever okay to kill a baby or child, and in the scientifically proven fact that life begins at conception. Therefore, I cannot justify abortion in any way, shape, or form.

However, I have noticed that it is somewhat common for people to justify abortion because of factors such as rape, incest, or a danger to the life of the mother. This one stood out to me... mainly because I had a very unpleasant encounter when I was almost 15 (was not mature and can add a pic to prove). Had that led to a pregnancy, it would definitely have qualified as rape and incest and would likely have killed me.

Despite my own experience and my knowledge from talking to many teen mothers, I still can't justify abortion. Rape is evil and must be punished. Incest causes birth defects and must be stopped. Unborn children have no control over their parentage or the method of their conception and must be protected.

Just to clear up, I am not against birth control. Do your research, take the birth control that feels right for you and doesn't kill developing humans, and live your life. But the life of an innocent human should never be sacrificed for someone else's feelings or convenience.

Oh, and this is what I looked like at 15 (the big girl in the pic who likes candy and silly pink clothes).

 

[Hall Kervean]

You and I will have to agree to disagree in the case of a mother in danger, but other than that we'll just have to agree to agree.

And I'm sorry for you about whatever encounter you had that I probably don't want details about ;-;

 

[Rachael of the Shire]

You and I will have to agree to disagree in the case of a mother in danger, but other than that we'll just have to agree to agree.

And I'm sorry for you about whatever encounter you had that I probably don't want details about ;-;

Yeah, it's R rated.

And it's cool to find someone else who values the lives of all children.

 

[Chimney Swift]

I feel like the mother's life comes first. If her life is in danger, it should be up to her who gets sacrificed. If she wants to risk her life to bear the baby, good on her. But if she doesn't, we should respect her will to survive. Of course it's tragic when someone has to have a late-term abortion, but I maintain that people who are capable of conscious thought take priority over those who aren't.

Also, I'd be more worried about improving health care living conditions for babies and children who have already been born before worrying about potential lives.

 

[The Gunrunner]

I personally find myself pro-choice but the situation differs. I believe life has importance at the point they have consciousness (or at least the ability to have it,) because without that the idea that their life matters is unjustified to me. It's based on an attempt to find a connection between us and animals, while disconnecting us between things like plants. I don't think 'animal' is good, or 'life' is good because their definitions simply don't sound like things that are important in my own mind. I think the rape and incest arguments are attempts to use something pro-lifers believe everyone would agree with, while avoiding the complicated 'when does life have value' stuff.

 

[Rachael of the Shire]

I feel like the mother's life comes first. If her life is in danger, it should be up to her who gets sacrificed. If she wants to risk her life to bear the baby, good on her. But if she doesn't, we should respect her will to survive. Of course it's tragic when someone has to have a late-term abortion, but I maintain that people who are capable of conscious thought take priority over those who aren't.

Also, I'd be more worried about improving health care living conditions for babies and children who have already been born before worrying about potential lives.

How do you know that unborn babies have or don't have conscious thought? When do they receive an equal value as, say, RPNation users?

 

[Hall Kervean]

I feel like the mother's life comes first. If her life is in danger, it should be up to her who gets sacrificed. If she wants to risk her life to bear the baby, good on her. But if she doesn't, we should respect her will to survive. Of course it's tragic when someone has to have a late-term abortion, but I maintain that people who are capable of conscious thought take priority over those who aren't.

Also, I'd be more worried about improving health care living conditions for babies and children who have already been born before worrying about potential lives.

I find it harder and harder to find things we agree on, but most of your first paragraph I do.

I'm not sure if your second paragraph is pro-choice or pro-life. Because it's kind of both.
It's the goal of pro-lifers to make all lives matter and to overhaul the adoption system.
It's a goal of pro-choices to make other things a priority over unborn children.

 

[Chimney Swift]

How do you know that unborn babies have or don't have conscious thought? When do they receive an equal value as, say, RPNation users?

Well, even newborns aren't fully conscious.
Most fetuses of around 24 to 28 weeks have deceloped enough brain tissue for thought, but they are often in either active or quiet sleep states. They are no more 'conscious' than a comatose person.
So basically, I value women over fetuses for the same reason I value those with a reasonable chance of survival over those who are brain dead.

 

[Chimney Swift]

I find it harder and harder to find things we agree on, but most of your first paragraph I do.

I'm not sure if your second paragraph is pro-choice or pro-life. Because it's kind of both.
It's the goal of pro-lifers to make all lives matter and to overhaul the adoption system.
It's a goal of pro-choices to make other things a priority over unborn children.

I don't think of myself as either pro-life or pro-choice. Both sides have some good points, but I don't fully agree with either.

I think ideally all lives should be preserved, but in times of peril certain conditions have priority.

 

[Rachael of the Shire]

Well, even newborns aren't fully conscious.
Most fetuses of around 24 to 28 weeks have deceloped enough brain tissue for thought, but they are often in either active or quiet sleep states. They are no more 'conscious' than a comatose person.
So basically, I value women over fetuses for the same reason I value those with a reasonable chance of survival over those who are brain dead.

I suppose we shall have to agree to disagree... on many, many levels.

 

[Hall Kervean]

I personally find myself pro-choice but the situation differs. I believe life has importance at the point they have consciousness (or at least the ability to have it,) because without that the idea that their life matters is unjustified to me. It's based on an attempt to find a connection between us and animals, while disconnecting us between things like plants. I don't think 'animal' is good, or 'life' is good because their definitions simply don't sound like things that are important in my own mind. I think the rape and incest arguments are attempts to use something pro-lifers believe everyone would agree with, while avoiding the complicated 'when does life have value' stuff.

That's where giving man dominion over everything, saying that man is created in God's image, and that God created who you were before you were born like the Bible says would play in our favor.
All your confusion could be solved by that. But we'll probably just overcomplicate things past a few easy sentences.

 

[Hall Kervean]

Well, even newborns aren't fully conscious.

I'm being entirely honest when I say it sounds like you just made a case for killing babies after they're born.
Sorry for being so brutally honest.

 

[Akibahara]

That's where giving man dominion over everything, saying that man is created in God's image, and that God created who you were before you were born like the Bible says would play in our favor.
All your confusion could be solved by that. But we'll probably just overcomplicate things past a few easy sentences.

I see you, boy. You can't escape uuuuuus~

 

[Rachael of the Shire]

I see you, boy. You can't escape uuuuuus~

And we shall unite together and fight with the Sword of the Spirit...

... And common sense.

Can we please keep the discussion relevant?

 

[Chimney Swift]

I'm being entirely honest when I say it sounds like you just made a case for killing babies after they're born.
Sorry for being so brutally honest.

Oh, I guess that could be easily interpreted that way. My apologies. That's not what I meant.

I was just making the point that lack of full consciousness is not unique to the unborn.

 

[Rachael of the Shire]

Oh, I guess that could be easily interpreted that way. My apologies. That's not what I meant.

I was just making the point that lack of full consciousness is not unique to the unborn.

Or to people with traumatic head injuries, or otherwise healthy teenagers who attempt suicide, or elders who collapse suddenly with a stroke... I could go on and on until the cows come home.

Are their lives suddenly less valuable?

 

[Chimney Swift]

Or to people with traumatic head injuries, or otherwise healthy teenagers who attempt suicide, or elders who collapse suddenly with a stroke... I could go on and on until the cows come home.

Are their lives suddenly less valuable?

If they will never be conscious again, yes.
It's not that their lives are less valuable, it's that they should not be a priority in crises where other lives are stake.

 

[Hall Kervean]

If they will never be conscious again, yes.
It's not that their lives are less valuable, it's that they should not be a priority in crises where other lives are stake.

The Murder of the Handicapped
Godwin's Law
Sorry guys

And in addition, this is a great case for dismantling the medical units in the military.

 

[Rachael of the Shire]

And how are you to know that they will never be conscious again? They could have full consciousness in three months or so. Similar to a newborn baby.

And you just said this kid's life is less valuable.

 

[Hall Kervean]

Rocky Balboa would disagree that those in a coma have a less valuable life.

 

[doneanddusted]

Uhh I'm pro life but like not really idk it's more like I don't think you should really be abortion-ing unless you were pregnant against your will

Idk I'm not that good at stuff like this but I feel that we should be improving sex Ed for teens. Maybe that could help with accidental preganancies.

 

[The Gunrunner]

How do you know that unborn babies have or don't have conscious thought? When do they receive an equal value as, say, RPNation users?

This wasn't quoted to me, but it is still a question relevant to what I said so...
I'll start by saying that even if we didn't know when fetuses have conscious thought, we do know when they don't. Brain development begins generally three weeks after conception, and the first 24 hours are cell divisions. If we weren't reasonably sure when they are conscious, we would still be sure on when they're not.
Now the third trimester law in the USA was passed on the grounds of its ability to survive outside the womb (even under medical attention,) but it coincidentally is also when the brain's neural pathways begin forming... or finish forming. One of the two. Thus I think it is when they will be able to recognize themselves and have an instinctive desire to live. There is also what Chimney pointed out, where babies don't have fully developed consciousness even outside the womb. However, to my knowledge they are both aware they exist and want to live despite that. The consciousness that is in regards to that is... ehh... a bit different and hard to explain fully - For example! They will see a reflection of themselves and think it is someone else, they will have something taken from immediate sight and the baby will forget it ever existed. Interesting stuff, but not what I myself think is the crux of the issue.

That's where giving man dominion over everything, saying that man is created in God's image, and that God created who you were before you were born like the Bible says would play in our favor.
All your confusion could be solved by that. But we'll probably just overcomplicate things past a few easy sentences.

That entirely relies on believing in god.
Thus, yes, we would overcomplicate things quite a bit. It would have to go into a 'is god real' debate, including 'which god,' 'does the bible actually say that,' 'even if a god exists, does objective morality exist,' 'what morals are objectively true,' 'was the bible tampered with,' 'if a god exists, how do we know he made a religious text,' etc.
You'll be out of high-school by the time we've finished.

 

[Pine]

and in the scientifically proven fact that life begins at conception.

just going to offer a different take on what other people are already saying/will probably say, since you brought up science. yes, a fetus is a living organism. sperm and eggs are living organisms as well, however. bacteria is a living organism. coral is a living organism. however, no one is making the moral argument that killing germs is murder.

one of the biggest things that tends to distinguish animals from plants and microorganisms is the brain a.k.a. the seat of cognition. a sperm that just fertilized an egg does not suddenly have brain tissue. it just has the capacity/genetic code to grow one. at that point, it's literally just a cluster of cells. eventually, the brain will develop, which at first serves as an unconscious drive to fulfill biological needs, then eventually a conscious drive to otherwise improve your life, abstract thought later at like idk three years old or smth, etc.

there's a somewhat fluid, but mostly fixed timeline in which this all happens... but i'm too lazy to look into it rn tbh. i'm not going to try to change your views, because ultimately it just boils down to moral values and priorities. i would simply ask that you take this in consideration when you're thinking about what life really means.

 

[Chimney Swift]

The Murder of the Handicapped
Godwin's Law
Sorry guys

And in addition, this is a great case for dismantling the medical units in the military.

Okay, this is the part wher I say that I'm disabled in more ways than one.
And believe me, doctors tend to be fairly accurate when it comes to predicting if someone will pull through. Miracles happen, but that's not enough to convince me that they should be given resources over those who have a better chance of recovery.

And how are you to know that they will never be conscious again? They could have full consciousness in three months or so. Similar to a newborn baby.

And you just said this kid's life is less valuable.

Well, for one, I trust doctors. And for the last time, this is not about value. This is about who gets put first in a situation where at least one death is inevitable. Don't try to guilt trip me with pictures of dying kids.

 

[Rachael of the Shire]

Okay, this is the part wher I say that I'm disabled in more ways than one.

And believe me, doctors tend to be fairly accurate when it comes to predicting if someone will pull through. Miracles happen, but that's not enough to convince me that they should be given resources over those who have a better chance of recovery.



Well, for one, I trust doctors. And for the last time, this is not about value. This is about who gets put first in a situation where at least one death is inevitable. Don't try to guilt trip me with pictures of dying kids.

She's fine now. I had to wrap her in a blanket and show her around so that she wouldn't be killed. I was beaten severely for showing everyone the living, breathing child.

And she calls me "Mommy" even though I've told her a thousand times that she was born when I was 12 and we're sisters.

Oh, and this is my mom (the woman in the picture). Soviet doctors said she wouldn't make it and tried to starve her. My grandma didn't buy that. She's 41 now and has 5 girls and 3 boys.