Opinion Thoughts of a Pro-Lifer

[Rhajaki]

You should never punish a child, born or unborn, for the choices of an adult.

The thing is that, most people who have an unwanted child can have any number of issues. They sometimes can't take care of it because of their family environment. Their child may be born so it suffers in life because of a syndrome or birth defect--natural or otherwise. In this case, letting it go is a means of preventing it from being abused by those who don't know what they're dealing with.
A common argument I'd expect for this is, "They could adopt it out." That is an option in some cases. But in most, such an option is out of reach. Most teen mothers don't know what to do because it is all so new and overwhelming that they aren't sure what to do.
If I am to be honest here, the statement, "You should never punish a child, born or unborn, for the choices of an adult." is very black and white. Is it a punishment if the unborn child has no memory to begin with? The person isn't punishing the child. They don't have an abortion because they want to take their anger and guilt out on their baby. It hurts them to do it. They don't want to kill the child in question any more than you or I. Sometimes they have no other choice--and that, no matter how hard it is to accept because of our own personal feelings, is a cold hard fact of life.
I am not saying abortion is bad or good, wrong or right. There is a fine grey between the two.
Try looking up a book called The Winter Walk. It is a true story about a native Alaskan woman who had to make a similar sacrifice. I think it is a great way to help bring things into perspective.
And please, respond after you read the book.

 

[Project Naiad]

I'm pro choice personally, but I also think that abortion should be regulated in order to avoid it becoming the go-to way whenever a tiny small problem with the mother arises. It should be the last resort, when the mother might be in danger or something similar.
However I also believe it would be wrong to force a woman to give birth if that is against her will, granted that the child is still in the early stages of development.
Lastly, I think sex ed should be improved, especially in schools, in order to at least reduce the whole issue at one of its roots.

 

[Rhajaki]

I'm pro choice personally, but I also think that abortion should be regulated in order to avoid it becoming the go-to way whenever a tiny small problem with the mother arises. It should be the last resort, when the mother might be in danger or something similar.
However I also believe it would be wrong to force a woman to give birth if that is against her will, granted that the child is still in the early stages of development.
Lastly, I think sex ed should be improved, especially in schools, in order to at least reduce the whole issue at one of its roots.

I agree with you whole heartedly. I also think that people need more discipline when it comes to this sort of thing. Another problem is that while people have these great ideas (and truly they are) for what to do in case of an unwanted pregnancy, what is done after the baby is born or after the child is lost? Correct me if I'm wrong, but losing a child, regardless of whether or not you're the cause of it, usually leaves the person scarred. Emotionally, rationally, and perhaps in other ways. Should these people get help rather than being persecuted?
And in cases of the child being born, what do you do to help the mother? The child seems to be an easier thing to make decisions about. But now what can the mom do? When a mother gives away their child to someone else--again correct me if I'm wrong--this in some ways is just as bad as losing it. What help does she receive? I've heard about women who've been convinced to let their child live and be with someone who can take care of it. However, after this, the mother receives no more care.

 

[Project Naiad]

I agree with you whole heartedly. I also think that people need more discipline when it comes to this sort of thing. Another problem is that while people have these great ideas (and truly they are) for what to do in case of an unwanted pregnancy, what is done after the baby is born or after the child is lost? Correct me if I'm wrong, but losing a child, regardless of whether or not you're the cause of it, usually leaves the person scarred. Emotionally, rationally, and perhaps in other ways. Should these people get help rather than being persecuted?
And in cases of the child being born, what do you do to help the mother? The child seems to be an easier thing to make decisions about. But now what can the mom do? When a mother gives away their child to someone else--again correct me if I'm wrong--this in some ways is just as bad as losing it. What help does she receive? I've heard about women who've been convinced to let their child live and be with someone who can take care of it. However, after this, the mother receives no more care.

I agree, at least some mental health assistance could possibly make things easier for a new mother (and father) who lost their child, and should be encouraged imo.
However again, we should make some distinctions: for example, if the pregnancy is unwanted because the mother was raped is one thing, but if a man and woman have unprotected sex without thinking about the consequences and then decide to get rid of the baby because it's too much trouble is another thing.
We should try to avoid the latter altogether, by raising awareness on the matter, especially to young people who start to dabble with sex for the first time.

 

[Project Naiad]

I'm breddy sure she meant "lost" as in "dead", after the abortion.
What kind of hospital just misplaces babies?
:I

 

[Hall Kervean]

I'm breddy sure she meant "lost" as in "dead", after the abortion.
What kind of hospital just misplaces babies?
:I

Exactly!
That was my point. I was so confused to why there would be a nationwide outreach to support mothers who had misplaced their children.
But I think she might have been talking about miscarriages.
My mom had one ;~; we were gonna have a sister but nope. My mom struggled the first couple of years, and whenever she has to speak about it, she gets emotional. But aside from that, she's totally fine, and it's not causing her any problems.

 

[Project Naiad]

Exactly!
That was my point. I was so confused to why there would be a nationwide outreach to support mothers who had misplaced their children.
But I think she might have been talking about miscarriages.
My mom had one ;~; we were gonna have a sister but nope. My mom struggled the first couple of years, and whenever she has to speak about it, she gets emotional. But aside from that, she's totally fine, and it's not causing her any problems.

Yeah I suppose life goes on. But still some psycholgical help could help make things better for some people during the first years, imo.

 

[Hall Kervean]

Yeah I suppose life goes on. But still some psycholgical help could help make things better for some people during the first years, imo.

Prayer and friends? Worked for my mom.

 

[Project Naiad]

Prayer and friends? Worked for my mom.

That too. Depends on the person.

 

[Hall Kervean]

That too. Depends on the person.

Considering my mom deeply cared for her child, she would probably more affected by it than others would be if their unborn children died naturally. So she might be a relatively good control.

 

[Project Naiad]

Considering my mom deeply cared for her child, she would probably more affected by it than others would be if their unborn children died naturally. So she might be a relatively good control.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'good control'.

 

[Hall Kervean]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'good control'.

There are people who would have been more traumatized and people who would have been less traumatized. She is probably either in the middle or leaning towards the "more traumatized." So she would probably be a good control for the discussion, considering all she needed was friends and family to comfort her and prayer.

 

[Project Naiad]

There are people who would have been more traumatized and people who would have been less traumatized. She is probably either in the middle or leaning towards the "more traumatized." So she would probably be a good control for the discussion, considering all she needed was friends and family to comfort her and prayer.

I get that, but not all people are the same or react the same to tragedies. Some people don't belive or don't have many friends, or some prefer to keep everything inside.

 

[Rhajaki]

There are people who would have been more traumatized and people who would have been less traumatized. She is probably either in the middle or leaning towards the "more traumatized." So she would probably be a good control for the discussion, considering all she needed was friends and family to comfort her and prayer.

Hey. Talk to me maybe after four more years. When you're an adult or not at all. Sorry bud.

 

[Hall Kervean]

Hey. Talk to me maybe after four more years. When you're an adult or not at all. Sorry bud.

That's really dark. In 4 years I will be an adult unless I'm dead. I prefer to think that death at the age of 20 is highly unlikely, especially since I tend to not make stupid choices.
Also, *2 years.

 

[Rachael of the Shire]

I understand everyone's point here and have not yet checked out that book yet though it is on my bucket list. I have a notoriously black and white sense of morals when it comes to life and death of human beings, as well as a firm belief that life begins at conception. Many problems supposedly solved by abortion could be solved instead by better policy changes (such as more safe shelters for women and babies, more sex education, and education for young parents). My beliefs on killing remain firm.

 

[Lappi]

As sad as it is I choose to accept that it is purely situational
There is no blanket law for abortion. There is no blanket rule. There just is no moral high ground as both sides are going to get the 'bad guy' label because of context. So at this point, this is just one of things that you can judge someone for it, but they had there reasons no matter what it was and it's there's to live with. I think that life starts at conception but thought does not. To me no harm is really done until human emotion and memories are formed. So around 1'st trimester to beginning of 2nd trimester is when Im personally fine with it. People have doubts and we as humans would never had survived if we had to commit fully to everything. Socially and physically. Not to mention making it illegal would work as well as making weed illegal.

So TLDR: I dislike it, but I leave the choice to the person and don't judge them and accept the fact that it's simply stupid to outlaw it when it's been practice for so long.

 

[Lappi]

I understand everyone's point here and have not yet checked out that book yet though it is on my bucket list. I have a notoriously black and white sense of morals when it comes to life and death of human beings, as well as a firm belief that life begins at conception. Many problems supposedly solved by abortion could be solved instead by better policy changes (such as more safe shelters for women and babies, more sex education, and education for young parents). My beliefs on killing remain firm.

That's a naive way of life and while I think you are childish for holding your morals I blame the people who parented more. Not to mention you willingly bring up the fact your infamous for it. But alas you can be yourself. That is all I will say on this subject

 

[Lappi]

That's a naive way of life and while I think you are childish for holding your morals I blame the people who parented more. Not to mention you willingly bring up the fact your infamous for it

Excuse me, I made a grammatical mistake and had to correct it.
Edit: I hate phones.

 

[Rachael of the Shire]

That's a naive way of life and while I think you are childish for holding your morals I blame the people who parented more. Not to mention you willingly bring up the fact your infamous for it. But alas you can be yourself. That is all I will say on this subject

You are aware that you could have simply stated your belief and left it at what was respectful, right? I can handle people disagreeing with me, but I do not take people seriously when they resort to insulting me. Keep it up and I will cease wasting my time replying.

I believe thought also starts at conception, by the way.

 

[Lappi]

You are aware that you could have simply stated your belief and left it at what was respectful, right? I can handle people disagreeing with me, but I do not take people seriously when they resort to insulting me. Keep it up and I will cease wasting my time replying.

I believe thought also starts at conception, by the way.

My apologies.

 

[Rhajaki]

You are aware that you could have simply stated your belief and left it at what was respectful, right? I can handle people disagreeing with me, but I do not take people seriously when they resort to insulting me. Keep it up and I will cease wasting my time replying.

I believe thought also starts at conception, by the way.

How is thought possible in a brain merely the size of a speck? Perhaps survival instincts by all means, basic emotions certainly--but thought? Before I say something potentially ignorant, could you define what you mean by thought?

 

[The Gunrunner]

How is thought possible in a brain merely the size of a speck? Perhaps survival instincts by all means, basic emotions certainly--but thought? Before I say something potentially ignorant, could you define what you mean by thought?

I'm pretty sure there isn't a brain at conception...? Development hasn't even started yet.

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

Fetal development timeline | BabyCenter
Fetal Brain and Nervous System | What to Expect

Between 4-10 weeks is the range in which most articles in a basic google search will tell you about the baby's brain development during a pregnancy. At conception it's a ball of cells that are starting to grow, moves down the Fallopian tube and implants into the uterus.

 

[Rachael of the Shire]

How is thought possible in a brain merely the size of a speck? Perhaps survival instincts by all means, basic emotions certainly--but thought? Before I say something potentially ignorant, could you define what you mean by thought?

How are we to know for sure whether thought is or isn't possible when we can't even hear them talk? Eventually, it always comes down to personal faith and beliefs.

I believe that where there is human life (meaning whole human being life, not silly stuff like disembodied skin cells), there is human thought. Until death, that thought remains. While it may not be as complex due to a lack of outside experience, it still is as much a human thought as a newborn's.


On another note, someone shoot me if I ever get dementia, Alzheimer's, or any related disease that destroys my ability to have my current level of thought processing.