News SJWs forcing their ideals on great things

[Kazmin D. Lovegood]

With Ghostbusters it was kind of a no brainer that it was feminist-washed lol. That's what I was thinking when I saw the trailers for it. But rather than seeing it as a serious remake, for me I took it more as a parody (at least that's what it felt like), so the gender swap didn't bother me as much since parodies to me are like, "anything goes/can't take it seriously" kinda movies. Strangely enough what I found annoying in the movie was Chris Hemsworth's character. Why was he so dumb? And what was up with his face overloading the credits? I mean yeah, he's attractive. But really, what was his character's purpose? In the end, I was fairly entertained by the movie without feeling like Hollywood was trying to feed me feminist cereal. But it's not a movie I care to watch again or even find to be worth remembering.

As for Star Wars, noting female roles and "a black stormtrooper" never occurred to me at all when watching the movie the first 20 times (because it was awesome and Adam Driver is bae). Not until I came across all the 'hoorays' for feminism and 'yay for diversity' in relation to The Force Awakens on the internet. Only then did I cringe at the thought that such a wonderful movie and universe could be the grounds on which real life politics would discreetly promote certain ideals. I'm just worried that the art of story telling will totally diminish in meaning by becoming a method of promoting propaganda. Now, if the casting wasn't in any way influenced by SJW view points and its just the media and public that are over-dramatizing TFA to be an 'inspiring example of equality' then hooray, all I have to do is ignore the media and the public and enjoy my Star Wars movies in peace without the dark cloud of reality to ruin my fictional adventures. If not and all our precious stories are turned into tools for the purpose of political gain, Big Brother is already on his way.

As for the superheroes I didn't notice any SJW influence (thank goodness!) and if there is, I don't wanna know and have my favorite stories ruined lol. Though I thought the complaint people had about that X-Men Apocalypse billboard where Apocalypse has Raven by the neck was ridiculous. I swear some people will find literally anything to complain about. But I was very relieved that Wonder Woman turned out great. When I found out the director was a woman, I was afraid the movie would have an overbearing amount of "Never send a man to do a woman's job" type lines and moments. But I didn't sense that at all. Sure there were moments where men were underestimating her but that's how men were back then, especially back then. And did Diana make a big fuss and retaliate? No. She has a reaction (which is understandable seeing as she's a kickass amazon warrior) and proves everyone wrong simply by doing her duty. She never feels she needs to prove herself, she just wants to do what's right. Besides, when the story is about the daughter of a god among human men, there's really no place for feminism anyway lol. People be making her a role model for little girls because she's a strong female lead character....but she's also basically a goddess so....if there's anything we should be using Diana as an example of in that movie it should be her ability to persevere, to help, to value all life, to live and fight (whatever battles you face) with honor. Those are qualities that us humans can achieve and that both girls and boys should grow to admire and reflect in their actions no matter what beliefs they acquire in their life.

I'm a female that loves strong female characters in great stories. And I think having a diverse collection of characters is only sensible; why wouldn't it be? But why must people put these things under constant, obsessive watch? I feel like it's making America fragile, chaotic and contradicting (people say they can't tolerate those who are intolerant? what?) Do entertainment industries really let people- more specifically SJWs- take partial control of their decisions that they make about their own job? I can understand them adjusting ideas and methods based on constructive reviews of critics and audiences but listening to complacent, irrational people and letting their accusing and intolerant tones influence productions that have little or nothing to do with them, that's not okay. If a movie consists of females, lgbt people or racially diverse people, I want it to be because that's how the story was written without consideration for political correctness. Or I want it to be because those actors and actresses were perfect for their roles. Not because the movie makers wanted to escape persecution from society. However, if one is in the movie industry and uses their career to promote whatever themes they want, fine. You do you. Just please make original stories instead of taking on franchises with vast and in-depth worlds, that way it'll be easier to turn the other cheek lol. PLEASE!

Oh dear, this is what happens when you're basically mute in person. You end up writing four paragraph replies to a thread consisting of other replies with only a few sentences. This is not embarrassing at all..... >.>

 

[Windsock]

>imbeleyiyeng any form of new media that isn't from japan or something can be good ever Ever EVER

smh tbqh famalambo

 

[Borkus Lazorus]

I think Rey's character could have had a little work done to it. It's a little questionable when someone wielding the lightsaber for the first time can best a Sith Lord with years of training behind them.

Episode IV: Luke perfectly manages to shoot two proton torpedos into a venting port the size of a womp-rat with the help of the Force after learning about it and having little to no training with the Force. Also, despite never being a X-Wing before, he manages to perfectly use it after moments sitting into the cock-pit. Also, he shoots down trained pilots of the Empire for the first time while sitting in the fucking cockpit.

Episode V: Luke pulls telekinesis out of his ass in Episode V to pull his lightsabre. Obi Wan never showed him that and while it's arguable that he could have learned it without any masters, it's still unlikely that he received training from other Jedi other than Yoda and Obi Wan.

Why does Rey know how to fly a ship?

Because she spent most of her years on a desert planet scavenging from ships and being a general mechanic. Also, during her first drive in the Milleneum Falcon, her lift-off was not spectacular. She was bumping into shit all the way until she reached the Star Destroyer.

How come Rey knows how to pull a mind trick out of her ass?

The same reason why Luke was able to pull telekinesis out of his ass. It's a high-stress situation and it's likely that the folk-tales of the Jedi having 'wacky insane mental powers' have spread around the galaxy since Luke's victory over the Death Star. She would have likely rationalised it.

How come Rey can use a blaster?

Anyone in the Star Wars Universe can use a blaster and Rey is not at all good with a blaster. In her first conflict with Kylo, Rey misses him multiple times and only manages to hit his lightsaber.

Let's put your quote into context.

- Kylo had just been shot in the gut with a blaster bolt from Chewbacca's blaster which is shown to send stormtroopers flying in the air from one single hit.
- Kylo likely hasn't been fighting a lot of force wielders for a long while since his dismemberment of Luke's fledgeling Jedi Order.
- Kylo is a wannabe Sith Lord who is trying to live up to his grandfather's legacy. He's not Darth Vader and he's not as intimidating or powerful as the True Dark Lord of the Sith. He's insecure, emotionally compromised after killing his father and more out of control than ever.
- Kylo has just been decked in the shoulder with a lightsaber by a storm-trooper.

Let's look at the fight itself.

- Kylo dominates the entire fight with Rey until he pushes her towards a cliff-side.
- Rey realises her force potential and goes all out against Kylo.
- Kylo gets dominated because of his accumulated injuries, emotional state and the fact that he hasn't faced a Force Wielder in what's most likely several years.

TL; DR: The term 'Mary Sue' is to be used lightly not.

 

[Imperator_tenebrae]

Yeah...that's my take on it.

 

[Black Sun]

Feminism is just a branch of Cultural Marxism, which was perpetuated by the Frankfurt School through 'Critical Theory'. Those men that made that up were inspired by the ideas of the Bolsheviks, which primarily consisted of Jews. So, don't blame feminism for everything. It's just a tiny, tiny pawn in this game.

 

[The Cheshire Cat]

That's basically what we've been saying for years Kazmin D. Lovegood

 

[The Cheshire Cat]

Episode IV: Luke perfectly manages to shoot two proton torpedos into a venting port the size of a womp-rat with the help of the Force after learning about it and having little to no training with the Force. Also, despite never being a X-Wing before, he manages to perfectly use it after moments sitting into the cock-pit. Also, he shoots down trained pilots of the Empire for the first time while sitting in the fucking cockpit.

Did you not watch him training with Obi Wan for like the whole movie? Lol he had training with the force, at least enough to understand basic concepts like focusing. Lol Luke was already a pilot
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Biggs_Darklighter

Episode V: Luke pulls telekinesis out of his ass in Episode V to pull his lightsabre. Obi Wan never showed him that and while it's arguable that he could have learned it without any masters, it's still unlikely that he received training from other Jedi other than Yoda and Obi Wan.

... Obi Wan was in ghost form at this time... He easily could have taught him that move. I hope you're joking.


Why does Rey know how to fly a ship?

Because she spent most of her years on a desert planet scavenging from ships and being a general mechanic. Also, during her first drive in the Milleneum Falcon, her lift-off was not spectacular. She was bumping into shit all the way until she reached the Star Destroyer.

Scavenging =/= Actually flying the ship. If it was realistic she would have nose dived into the ground and exploded.

How come Rey knows how to pull a mind trick out of her ass?

The same reason why Luke was able to pull telekinesis out of his ass. It's a high-stress situation and it's likely that the folk-tales of the Jedi having 'wacky insane mental powers' have spread around the galaxy since Luke's victory over the Death Star. She would have likely rationalised it.

That's a negative. See my reasoning above.

How come Rey can use a blaster?

Anyone in the Star Wars Universe can use a blaster and Rey is not at all good with a blaster. In her first conflict with Kylo, Rey misses him multiple times and only manages to hit his lightsaber.
Or maybe that's because he was a Sith? Did you expect her to be able to kill him with a blaster pistol?

Let's put your quote into context.

- Kylo had just been shot in the gut with a blaster bolt from Chewbacca's blaster which is shown to send stormtroopers flying in the air from one single hit.
- Kylo likely hasn't been fighting a lot of force wielders for a long while since his dismemberment of Luke's fledgeling Jedi Order.
- Kylo is a wannabe Sith Lord who is trying to live up to his grandfather's legacy. He's not Darth Vader and he's not as intimidating or powerful as the True Dark Lord of the Sith. He's insecure, emotionally compromised after killing his father and more out of control than ever.
- Kylo has just been decked in the shoulder with a lightsaber by a storm-trooper.

Let's look at the fight itself.

- Kylo dominates the entire fight with Rey until he pushes her towards a cliff-side.
- Rey realises her force potential and goes all out against Kylo.
- Kylo gets dominated because of his accumulated injuries, emotional state and the fact that he hasn't faced a Force Wielder in what's most likely several years.

TL; DR: The term 'Mary Sue' is to be used lightly not.

Not even Luke, who you claim to be a Mary sue, was proficient with a lightsaber until after he was trained with Obi Wan. Yet you seem to think that Rey and Finn, both of which never have used a lightsaber are able to operate it without any trouble and nearly kill a Sith. Your argument about him being emotionally compromised is invalid too since anger, pain, and loss all fuel a Sith. If anything he should have been made stronger because of it.

 

[The DoomyFish]

I must say one of the things that bothers me is the remaking of heroes into female roles. Specifically when they already have female characters to play tgis
For example iron heart.
The female child iron man who is recently added by what one can only assume to be affirmative action.(not that I have a problem with such action.) What the writers of her failed to realize is that there already is a female iron man named rescue, which is pepper pots in an iron man suit.
Personally I don't agree with the whole Jane foster becoming Thor either... Give beta ray bill his chance to shine I'm pretty sure an alien doesn't offend anyone's racial or gender views.

As far as SJW's go they like any other organization are subject to extremism. This isn't today all are extremists but when you take a organization (any) you will find people who take that message and apply it to their own personal history and story and thus you get a warped view of what the movement stands for.

Feminism means equality, yet many within the group turn the message into Matriarchy because of their own feelings.

Religion means love and acceptance, yet many warp it into their own personal justification for hatred.

The problem isn't the movement it's the People who assume their struggle is greater than another's.I don't hate women, or men, black or white. What I hate is willful ignorance. Anyone who refuses to learn something because it disagrees with their fabricated reality is the true problem.

 

[Mekuto]

Agenda over narrative in storytelling.

Amy Pascal was the driving force behind the female-centric Ghostbusters, not as a social justice warrior but a woman with an agenda. It wasn't even a bad one, she wanted a female driven franchise. The problem is that rather than support a franchise that meets her agenda she injected it into a preexisting franchise. The blowback wasn't due to misogyny, but a lack of care for the franchise.

Tribalism is a bitch.

Nerding out for a moment, it is typical for force sensitive peoples to be inherently skilled in electronics and piloting. Faster reflexes and a preternatural ability in understanding how things work. This is mainly shown in the Skywalker family, but extends to many jedi.

 

[Axel The Englishman]

Did we forget about the part where Luke lost a limb and was almost electrocuted to death when tangling with the Sith?

 

[SirBlazeALot]

Episode IV: Luke perfectly manages to shoot two proton torpedos into a venting port the size of a womp-rat with the help of the Force after learning about it and having little to no training with the Force. Also, despite never being a X-Wing before, he manages to perfectly use it after moments sitting into the cock-pit. Also, he shoots down trained pilots of the Empire for the first time while sitting in the fucking cockpit.

Did you not watch him training with Obi Wan for like the whole movie? Lol he had training with the force, at least enough to understand basic concepts like focusing. Lol Luke was already a pilot
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Biggs_Darklighter

Episode V: Luke pulls telekinesis out of his ass in Episode V to pull his lightsabre. Obi Wan never showed him that and while it's arguable that he could have learned it without any masters, it's still unlikely that he received training from other Jedi other than Yoda and Obi Wan.

... Obi Wan was in ghost form at this time... He easily could have taught him that move. I hope you're joking.


Why does Rey know how to fly a ship?

Because she spent most of her years on a desert planet scavenging from ships and being a general mechanic. Also, during her first drive in the Milleneum Falcon, her lift-off was not spectacular. She was bumping into shit all the way until she reached the Star Destroyer.

Scavenging =/= Actually flying the ship. If it was realistic she would have nose dived into the ground and exploded.

How come Rey knows how to pull a mind trick out of her ass?

The same reason why Luke was able to pull telekinesis out of his ass. It's a high-stress situation and it's likely that the folk-tales of the Jedi having 'wacky insane mental powers' have spread around the galaxy since Luke's victory over the Death Star. She would have likely rationalised it.

That's a negative. See my reasoning above.

How come Rey can use a blaster?

Anyone in the Star Wars Universe can use a blaster and Rey is not at all good with a blaster. In her first conflict with Kylo, Rey misses him multiple times and only manages to hit his lightsaber.
Or maybe that's because he was a Sith? Did you expect her to be able to kill him with a blaster pistol?

Let's put your quote into context.

- Kylo had just been shot in the gut with a blaster bolt from Chewbacca's blaster which is shown to send stormtroopers flying in the air from one single hit.
- Kylo likely hasn't been fighting a lot of force wielders for a long while since his dismemberment of Luke's fledgeling Jedi Order.
- Kylo is a wannabe Sith Lord who is trying to live up to his grandfather's legacy. He's not Darth Vader and he's not as intimidating or powerful as the True Dark Lord of the Sith. He's insecure, emotionally compromised after killing his father and more out of control than ever.
- Kylo has just been decked in the shoulder with a lightsaber by a storm-trooper.

Let's look at the fight itself.

- Kylo dominates the entire fight with Rey until he pushes her towards a cliff-side.
- Rey realises her force potential and goes all out against Kylo.
- Kylo gets dominated because of his accumulated injuries, emotional state and the fact that he hasn't faced a Force Wielder in what's most likely several years.

TL; DR: The term 'Mary Sue' is to be used lightly not.

Not even Luke, who you claim to be a Mary sue, was proficient with a lightsaber until after he was trained with Obi Wan. Yet you seem to think that Rey and Finn, both of which never have used a lightsaber are able to operate it without any trouble and nearly kill a Sith. Your argument about him being emotionally compromised is invalid too since anger, pain, and loss all fuel a Sith. If anything he should have been made stronger because of it.

Kylo wasn't trying to kill Rey in the fight. He was only trying to subdue her because he wanted her to join him. With Finn he was clearly trying to kill him and he almost did.

One of the most interesting things about Kylo is that he isn't a Sith Lord and neither is Snoke. Snoke even states the reason why he likes Kylo is because he's somewhere in between the light and the dark.

If Kylo was a true Sith then he could've channeled his pain and emotional state into power but he isn't really so he couldn't. If Kylo was a true Sith he wouldn't have wanted to train Rey after witnessing her level of force sensitivity. She would be too powerful and a Sith apprentice craves power, they don't share it. He would've actively tried to strike her down while she is weak not make her stronger.

Ultimately Kylo half-stepping with the dark side is what caused him to lose the battle, though his wounds certainly played a part as well. I don't think Rey earned her victory, I think she got very lucky, and if The Last Jedi apes Empire (which it looks like it's going to) then Kylo will win their rematch, probably due to Rey underestimating him since she "beat him" last time.

However I think it sets Kylo up for some interesting development. I think losing his fight with Rey was a lesson to him: no more half stepping. It was a significant push deeper into the dark side, maybe even one he learned from more than killing Han. But how will Snoke feel about Kylo trying to snuff out his light side?

It's interesting stuff in my opinion and I'm interested to see how it unfolds. If Rey is a Mary Sue she's not an absolutely terrible one who ruins the story for me. To me, being a Mary Sue is more than being too powerful, it's about becoming black whole who sucks up any and all moments for any other character to become multi-dimensional other than themselves. And personally I don't think Rey does that or at least not enough to make TFA a boring movie. At the end of the day, being entertaining is all that matters to me and though it's definitely flawed TFA is a fun movie. In my opinion of course.

 

[SirBlazeALot]

I mean, is there proof that a small, annoying group of extremists are influencing the media you've listed? A popular franchise having female characters really isn't strange.

There was the whole issue with corruption in gaming journalism a while back.

Or that time one of Tracer's victory poses was changed because people thought it showed her butt too much.

Or that time a feminist complained about the X-Men Apocalypse billboard with Apocalypse choking Mystique and got Fox to take it down and apologize for promoting violence against women.

 

[The Cheshire Cat]

Kylo wasn't trying to kill Rey in the fight. He was only trying to subdue her because he wanted her to join him. With Finn he was clearly trying to kill him and he almost did.

One of the most interesting things about Kylo is that he isn't a Sith Lord and neither is Snoke. Snoke even states the reason why he likes Kylo is because he's somewhere in between the light and the dark.

If Kylo was a true Sith then he could've channeled his pain and emotional state into power but he isn't really so he couldn't. If Kylo was a true Sith he wouldn't have wanted to train Rey after witnessing her level of force sensitivity. She would be too powerful and a Sith apprentice craves power, they don't share it. He would've actively tried to strike her down while she is weak not make her stronger.

Ultimately Kylo half-stepping with the dark side is what caused him to lose the battle, though his wounds certainly played a part as well. I don't think Rey earned her victory, I think she got very lucky, and if The Last Jedi apes Empire (which it looks like it's going to) then Kylo will win their rematch, probably due to Rey underestimating him since she "beat him" last time.

However I think it sets Kylo up for some interesting development. I think losing his fight with Rey was a lesson to him: no more half stepping. It was a significant push deeper into the dark side, maybe even one he learned from more than killing Han. But how will Snoke feel about Kylo trying to snuff out his light side?

It's interesting stuff in my opinion and I'm interested to see how it unfolds. If Rey is a Mary Sue she's not an absolutely terrible one who ruins the story for me. To me, being a Mary Sue is more than being too powerful, it's about becoming black whole who sucks up any and all moments for any other character to become multi-dimensional other than themselves. And personally I don't think Rey does that or at least not enough to make TFA a boring movie. At the end of the day, being entertaining is all that matters to me and though it's definitely flawed TFA is a fun movie. In my opinion of course.

If he was trying to subdue her he could have just frozen her like he did at the bar.

 

[SirBlazeALot]

If he was trying to subdue her he could have just frozen her like he did at the bar.

He probably didn't think it was an option after she pushed him out of her mind when he was interrogating her.

 

[The Cheshire Cat]

He probably didn't think it was an option after she pushed him out of her mind when he was interrogating her.

Which, less than an hour before hand, he had used aforementioned force paralysis on her. You mean to tell me she learned all that stuff in an hour?

 

[SirBlazeALot]

Which, less than an hour before hand, he had used aforementioned force paralysis on her. You mean to tell me she learned all that stuff in an hour?

Whether or not you or I agree with the timing of how long it took her to git gud with the force, it makes sense chronologically as to why paralyzing her wasn't an option during the fight.

 

[The Cheshire Cat]

No, it doesn't. If force users could deflect other force users' abilities like in the way you're implying they would then nobody would use the force because it would be moot at that point.

Why would any force user take the time to learn a new skill if they knew it would just be denied by the other force user just because they were self aware of their own force power?

 

[SirBlazeALot]

No, it doesn't. If force users could deflect other force users' abilities like in the way you're implying they would then nobody would use the force because it would be moot at that point.

Why would any force user take the time to learn a new skill if they knew it would just be denied by the other force user just because they were self aware of their own force power?

I'm not implying anything, I didn't write a single word of star wars. You seem to think I'm J.J. Abrams in disguise or something. I'll say it again. Whether or not you or I agree with the timing, the chronological order of her progression with the force makes sense. If Rey learned how to prevent Kylo from invading her mind, then he'd be (or perhaps he thought he'd be) incapable of controlling her body during the fight. It's very cut and dry.

It's completely possible for a force user to deflect a force ability. Yoda blocked Palpatine's force lightning with nothing but the force, but that didn't make force lightning useless. It's the reason why you don't see force users just throwing each other around during fights unless one of them has been weakened. Instead they throw things at each other. If people could just use the force against each other without anyone having any resistance to it, then duels would be over in like five seconds.

 

[TrumpCard]

Don't mind me, guys. I am rather enjoying this debate on Rey.


@TheOtherGuy

Even Bethesda, a developer not exactly known for their writing

You realize that Obsidian developed New Vegas, Not Bethesda, right? And, you are talking about the company behind Dishonored, The Evil Within, Call of Cthulhu, and the famously deep world of The Elder Scrolls. Just to name a few of the most known. I apologize if I am coming off as either butthurt or a Bethesda dick-rider, but you should really do some basic research on the matter of their world building feats.

 

[Project Naiad]

Ah yes, Star Wars, Overwatch, Tumblrinas... Dem real important things in life

 

[SirBlazeALot]

Ah yes, Star Wars, Overwatch, Tumblrinas... Dem real important things in life

Great contribution to a thread called SJWs forcing their ideals on great things. How very insightful of you to be dismissive of the topic.

 

[Project Naiad]

Great contribution to a thread called SJWs forcing their ideals on great things. How very insightful of you to be dismissive of the topic.

I'm just wondering what exactly are the "great things"
I think we should make a distinction between Tumblr and real life

 

[SirBlazeALot]

I'm just wondering what exactly are the "great things"
I think we should make a distinction between Tumblr and real life

I'd recommend listening to this to learn more about corruption in gaming journalism due to "social justice." It's a bit long but sometimes messed up stuff in real life can't be condensed in 10 minutes and it's a very messy situation.

There's Canada's Bill C-16 which opens the door for government forced compelled speech by making it a hate crime to misgender someone. Follow up video for this one.

There's also the whole debacle in Australia with the Red Pill movie, where these two news anchors pushed their agenda to misinform their viewers. Follow up video for this one.

I think people need to understand that the internet is not a whole other reality completely separate from the one we live in. It is a part of our reality and it has effects on our reality.

And honestly, people do think Star Wars, Overwatch, and other media are great things. Even if they are just entertainment, it doesn't mean that they aren't without merit or importance to society. They shouldn't just be swept under the rug as not being important just because they're movies and games. They have meaning to people, people care about them, people put a lot of time into making them and make their living off of them. It's not fair to be dismissive of media just because it's entertainment.

 

[Project Naiad]

I'd recommend listening to this to learn more about corruption in gaming journalism due to "social justice." It's a bit long but sometimes messed up stuff in real life can't be condensed in 10 minutes and it's a very messy situation.

There's Canada's Bill C-16 which opens the door for government forced compelled speech by making it a hate crime to misgender someone. Follow up video for this one.

There's also the whole debacle in Australia with the Red Pill movie, where these two news anchors pushed their agenda to misinform their viewers. Follow up video for this one.

I think people need to understand that the internet is not a whole other reality completely separate from the one we live in. It is a part of our reality and it has effects on our reality.

And honestly, people do think Star Wars, Overwatch, and other media are great things. Even if they are just entertainment, it doesn't mean that they aren't without merit or importance to society. They shouldn't just be swept under the rug as not being important just because they're movies and games. They have meaning to people, people care about them, people put a lot of time into making them and make their living off of them. It's not fair to be dismissive of media just because it's entertainment.

Misinformation isn't exactly something recent.
Aa for the entertainment medias I didn't dismissed them as irrelevant, I do like both Star Wars and Overwatch, although not as much as others. But they deserve the attention they deserve. Starting wars over this or that character for futile reasons is stupid of both the so called SJWs and the people who take their bait

 

[SirBlazeALot]

Misinformation isn't exactly something recent.

Yes, does that somehow counter that it's wrong, especially when used under a banner with "justice" in the title?

Starting wars over this or that character for futile reasons is stupid of both the so called SJWs and the people who take their bait

I completely agree, I wish people could talk about this stuff in a civil manner. But clearly not everyone starts wars over this stuff, I personally think me and The Cheshire Cat have been very civil with each other in our discussion. I also don't think people should keep their opinions about elements of things they like to themselves either. It's interesting to talk about stuff you're a fan of with other fans and to look at things with a critical eye. It only gets annoying when people try to take a moral high ground via social justice or "anti" social justice.