What Happens to Users Reported for Leaving Games?

[The Dark Wizard]

This question was asked by @Tabby, I tried to respond via profile posts where she asked but apparently my response is too long.


So here is a thread instead.


"Unable to post in the Looking for Group forum for X amount of time determined by the staff. While this does not stop you from directly joining a game. Most joining of games is done there. Then the ST will ask you why you didn't post there, and you have to explain to them that you are banned from that area due to constantly leaving games, and then STs won't want to play with you.


It has worked really well up to date, in making sure that users understand that just leaving with out any word is uancceptable.


Heck telling an ST "You are terrible, **** You and your ****ity game" is more then enough to not be subject to this, of course treating someone like that is a different problem on its own.


Though of course this only works if the ST feels bothered enough to report a person in the first place. We only also take action once they get more then one."


If anyone wants to jump into this conversation, feel free.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

I mean we do review every report and see what the situation is. But we've had problems with users, consistently leaving games in the past, pledging to play, to move the game across the creation process and then not playing.


If you feel you have ever been wronged as an ST, talk to us, you can create a report or poke us in Admin Contact, same with players who feel wronged by STs who start games and never really pick them up and constantly do this.

 

[Purr]

I think that is an outstanding solution! It definitely falls under the "respect everyone" rule RPdom seems to have had for years.


I would be interested in knowing a player's reason for leaving a game. If it's because of Real Life, then yes! By all means! "Real Life Always Comes First" is a guidelines I've been repeating for years. In our Lord of the Rings Online kinship (guild), we have a thread for that. "Extended Absences." If a kinmate is going to be gone for some time, they post there with something that tells us what's going on, so we don't mistakenly boot them from the kinship (for not logging in for an excessive amount of time).


Does RPdom have something similar? Like a "Hey, sorry I am leaving this game because my mother got into a car wreck and she needs me" type thread? Would that help here?


Honor and fun,


Dann

 

[The Dark Wizard]

I would be interested in knowing a player's reason for leaving a game. If it's because of Real Life, then yes! By all means! "Real Life Always Comes First" is a guidelines I've been repeating for years. In our Lord of the Rings Online kinship (guild), we have a thread for that. "Extended Absences." If a kinmate is going to be gone for some time, they post there with something that tells us what's going on, so we don't mistakenly boot them from the kinship (for not logging in for an excessive amount of time).

We don't have a thread like that. One could be started or users can make indiviutal threads for it in off-topic or something. It might not be a bad idea to have one.


However the point is that users have plenty of ways to tell an ST that they are leaving the game, between various threads, the LFP section, PMs, or in the game itself.


On RPdom we enforce a strict policy of staff not interfering with a game(an ST does what ever she/he wants as long as it does not infringe on our site policies) even if players are unhappy with the ST, they are the rulers of their game. So by that logic we do not stop people from joining games, if an ST wants to take a chronic leaver of games into their game, then that is their choice. We will however make it a little harder for people to join games by prohibiting use to the primary tool that STs use to recruit, the LFP forum for a certain amount of time.


However of course that does not mean that if you are constantly getting disciplined by the staff and causing problems, that we won't eventually start issuing timed bans from the site and then eventually a perma ban.


Though for a community that is constantly growing and more users joining us everyday and the years we've been around, we've only ever perma banned one user in the site's history.

 

[Tabby]

Seems reasonable. More communication always goes a long way in keeping things moving.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

@shepsquared


I hope I was also able to provide a solution to your status.

 

[Purr]

That idea is of course for those-who-do-not-bail or "Bailers" if you will?


If the current system is somehow not working (and I don't see how it wouldn't), then how about a point system for Bailers? If they rack up too many, they get banned for awhile?


Just tossing around ideas.


Honor and fun,


Dann

 

[Tabby]

That idea is of course for those-who-do-not-bail or "Bailers" if you will?
If the current system is somehow not working (and I don't see how it wouldn't), then how about a point system for Bailers? If they rack up too many, they get banned for awhile?


Just tossing around ideas.


Honor and fun,


Dann

This is just me, but I really don't like the idea of people getting banned, even temporarily, for leaving/being inconsistent. Restricted from posting in game recruitment sure, but even temporary bans seem like a huge overreaction. That was the reason I asked wizzard in the first place, because reports are in my experience often tied to, or at least related to, bans.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

That idea is of course for those-who-do-not-bail or "Bailers" if you will?
If the current system is somehow not working (and I don't see how it wouldn't), then how about a point system for Bailers? If they rack up too many, they get banned for awhile?


Just tossing around ideas.


Honor and fun,


Dann

Thats how it actually works at the moment. Points get gained, then it automatically starts stripping permissions. Of course points expire over time, so punishments automatically lift, sometimes you won't even make it to a punishment.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

This is just me, but I really don't like the idea of people getting banned, even temporarily, for leaving/being inconsistent. Restricted from posting in games sure, but even temporary bans seem like a huge overreaction. That was the reason I asked wizzard in the first place, because reports are in my experience often tied to, or at least related to, bans.

Though we've never banned anyone for leaving, and never will. That is reserved for the most problematic of users.


Like @Xenthriss as everyone remembers that fiasco.


Though to be honest, being removed from being able to join games and having to go through extra hoops to have to join a game, most STs do not like that. They will get suscious of your ability to commit, if you've been barred from LFP. This spreads among STs, and eventually no ST will take on you on the site.


We've seen it before. It is as effective as being banned, if not better.

 

[shepsquared]

[QUOTE="The Dark Wizard]@shepsquared
I hope I was also able to provide a solution to your status.

[/QUOTE]
Thanks, you have

 

[Pineapple]

Again, the Staff will not be responsible for hunting leavers down. It's up to the Storytellers of the Site to do something about them. Storytellers should report them in the Admin Contact Forum so we can investigate.


No user on the site will ever be banned from the site either permanently or temporarily because they leave someones game. There is more to our site than the games, there is discussion forums, thread roleplays, pm's, etc. We restrict their interest check privileges so that their is a level of protection for people looking for dedicated players. Further, no player will ever be banned from the roleplay category. They can always join games if they contact the storyteller in a PM and ask the be allowed in. They can always play the games they are already in, and they can always play the games they run.


Currently users who get restricted access to interest check are still able to submit games as well. Players and Storytellers and punished separately. We do not wish to create a place where people fear joining games because they worry they will get banned from the site or from roleplaying. As such, a player who is reported my not be infracted if we believe the player left for reason. The reason 'too busy' for example, can be vailed. However, we will watch that player closely. If they join a new game shortly after leaving yours, we will punish them, because they clearly were not that busy. If a player is reported, but the player argues the game was misrepresented and wasn't what they were told it would be, we may excuse them, and possibly investate into the storyteller.


The Staff at RPdom do not seek to hinder peoples ability to make games, play games, and have fun. What we try to do is prevent Players from tricking storytellers into thinking they have enough players, then turn around and leave them stranded. We try to prevent Storytellers from grabbing enough people to run a Pathfinder game, to turn around and decided 'The game will be better as a DnD 4.0 game'.


I hope this helps explain both sides, Storytellers and Players. We have had this system in place for over a year, but no one ever reports anyone, so it looks like we do nothing. We see no reason to punish people if the wronged party can't put forth the effort to report it.

 

[The Dark Wizard]

Again, the Staff will not be responsible for hunting leavers down. It's up to the Storytellers of the Site to do something about them. Storytellers should report them in the Admin Contact Forum so we can investigate.
No user on the site will ever be banned from the site either permanently or temporarily because they leave someones game. There is more to our site than the games, there is discussion forums, thread roleplays, pm's, etc. We restrict their interest check privileges so that their is a level of protection for people looking for dedicated players. Further, no player will ever be banned from the roleplay category. They can always join games if they contact the storyteller in a PM and ask the be allowed in. They can always play the games they are already in, and they can always play the games they run.


Currently users who get restricted access to interest check are still able to submit games as well. Players and Storytellers and punished separately. We do not wish to create a place where people fear joining games because they worry they will get banned from the site or from roleplaying. As such, a player who is reported my not be infracted if we believe the player left for reason. The reason 'too busy' for example, can be vailed. However, we will watch that player closely. If they join a new game shortly after leaving yours, we will punish them, because they clearly were not that busy. If a player is reported, but the player argues the game was misrepresented and wasn't what they were told it would be, we may excuse them, and possibly investate into the storyteller.


The Staff at RPdom do not seek to hinder peoples ability to make games, play games, and have fun. What we try to do is prevent Players from tricking storytellers into thinking they have enough players, then turn around and leave them stranded. We try to prevent Storytellers from grabbing enough people to run a Pathfinder game, to turn around and decided 'The game will be better as a DnD 4.0 game'.


I hope this helps explain both sides, Storytellers and Players. We have had this system in place for over a year, but no one ever reports anyone, so it looks like we do nothing. We see no reason to punish people if the wronged party can't put forth the effort to report it.

This.

 

[Exthalion]

I have a tangential but related question. There are times when a game will sputter for whatever reason. Sometimes the ST disappears, other times everyone is waiting for someone else to post, etc.


In such situations, will the lack of player involvement ever translate into an infraction? If the ST comes back after a week and no one has posted is that grounds for accusing everyone of having left without notice?

 

[hellrazoromega]

. If a player is reported, but the player argues the game was misrepresented and wasn't what they were told it would be, we may excuse them, and possibly investigate into the storyteller.

Just to be clear is this only if the player leaves without so much as a "by your leave" and gets reported for it? What is the case if the player leaves because they are not having fun, or because they find something about the storyteller's style is not to their liking. Provided of course they leave a post along the lines of, " Sorry but the game is not fun for me," and/or do what they can to resolve the issue with the storyteller? Or any other "valid" reason for leaving for that matter. I say "valid" becasue people are different, storyteller A's definition of valid may differ from players B's. Another question is how long before someone is considered a leaver--a day--a week--a month? I know Admin does not like to involve themselves in storytellers business but IMO if there is going to be a policy there should be a reasonable, agreed upon, standard of time.


My free advice--worth, as always, exactly what you paid for it---is to have a strike system. Sadly, it would take some bookkeeping but I think the first time it happens the person should be given a chance to explain, did a loved one die, die their dog get run over by a bus--did they get laid off at work and are they so depressed they don't want to talk to anyone let alone post. I've had things happen where I have vanished from communities online that I was very active in for a time--when my Grandfather passed away--the LAST thing on my mind was posting on any groups even to explain what was going on, for about 3 weeks--sorry but bigger fish to fry. I'd take people at their word the first time. The second time, skepticism would set in and while I agree outright bans would be harsh they could be given a probation period where they cannot join new game for "x" amount of time.

 

[Millershipper]

Also, I've had a couple of games where I stopped getting alerts, the game went dormant for a bit, and then I found that it had started back up and I was not notified for whatever reason (I'm specifically thinking of the game "Human Element" that I had joined, alerts stopped, and I only found out last week is still actively posting). What happens to players in those situations? Where can we go to argue our case that the leaving wasn't just us walking away from a game because we were bored or didn't have time or whatever?

 

[shepsquared]

Also, I've had a couple of games where I stopped getting alerts, the game went dormant for a bit, and then I found that it had started back up and I was not notified for whatever reason (I'm specifically thinking of the game "Human Element" that I had joined, alerts stopped, and I only found out last week is still actively posting). What happens to players in those situations? Where can we go to argue our case that the leaving wasn't just us walking away from a game because we were bored or didn't have time or whatever?

This. I haven't managed to lose a game for it, but I have gone two or three weeks without posting because of it.

 

[Pineapple]

Well: There it is a strike system. If you get an infraction, it lasts 3 months. If you have 3 of them, you can't post in Interest checks. This means a player can reasonably leave 2 games in three months for no reason. 3 if they space them well.

Also, I've had a couple of games where I stopped getting alerts, the game went dormant for a bit, and then I found that it had started back up and I was not notified for whatever reason (I'm specifically thinking of the game "Human Element" that I had joined, alerts stopped, and I only found out last week is still actively posting). What happens to players in those situations? Where can we go to argue our case that the leaving wasn't just us walking away from a game because we were bored or didn't have time or whatever?

Well, every roleplay you posted in is automatically at the top of the roleplay list. you should see it whenever you go down there. When you look at your other games you should see it. YOU joined the game, becuase YOU find it fun. It's up to YOU to keep up to date and play it.


It is also up to the STORYTELLER to pm or message you if they worry you have left/etc... If the storyteller doesn't try to get you involved in the game, just ignore you not doing anytihng than reports it, you may not even be infracted unless we think it's still valid excuse. Regardless, the Staff are not robots. Neither are the players, or the storytellers. There is no reason for exact measures, because we don't want to punish anyone, we can go light or heavy depending on the situation. A storyteller who reports you for not posting if you haven't posted in a week, but has not tried to contact you about it will likely be laughed out of the admin contact. If they tried to contact you but you ignored them then we will look into it.


If you don't like the way the storyteller plays, tell them that/whats wrong with it/etc... Further, you can honestly just....


ASK


Interest checks is more than just 'Hey, you wrote pathfinder - I'm in!' Ask about how they will run the game, what are players expected to post, how often, etc... If you jump into a game without investigating the game and the storyteller, we likely wont have much sympathy. Especially since we provide you the opportunity to do just that.

 

[Millershipper]

Thanks for the explanation, Pineapple. That sounds like a fair enough way to work with all of us. Storytellers have some responsibility, I as a player have more, and the staff will do their best to oversee each situation. I can work with that.

 

[Pineapple]

Thanks for the explanation, Pineapple. That sounds like a fair enough way to work with all of us. Storytellers have some responsibility, I as a player have more, and the staff will do their best to oversee each situation. I can work with that.

In some sense, you might say storytellers have more. They have to remind players to post, they have to go through the process to report, and they have provide the game they proposed. All a player has to do is roleplay (which is suppose to be fun - thats why we do it).


Also, please note that this rule is not meant to punish people from leaving any games ever. it's mainly aimed towards those who join a game, then never make a character/post more than a handful of times. We are after all, a forum roleplaying site. We don't expect people to feel forced into playing a game for months they don't enjoy. We just don't want a thousand yes-men bringing false hope to the storytellers.


edit: I do want the site informed about this, because I do think it will help people in general if they know more about this - players may be more picky about games (which is not a bad thing) and interest checks might turn into Q&A threads instead of mostly a place to say yes or no. So if there are other questions, feel free to ask I'll get back to you.

 

[Wolf Rawrrr]

The Wolf has followed this discussion, but you guys worded it pretty well so there was no need to interfere. I will, however, express my thanks to Wizard and Pineapple for their efforts and understanding as members of the Staff. And to everyone else who raised good questions and/or provided useful feedback, thanks as well. This community will shine for as long as we function the way we do now *bark*

 

[hellrazoromega]

YOU joined the game, becuase YOU find it fun. It's up to YOU to keep up to date and play it.
Also, please note that this rule is not meant to punish people from leaving any games ever. it's mainly aimed towards those who join a game, then never make a character/post more than a handful of times. We are after all, a forum roleplaying site. We don't expect people to feel forced into playing a game for months they don't enjoy. We just don't want a thousand yes-men bringing false hope to the storytellers.

Your first quote kinda had me worried there a sec because it sounded a bit Draconian. While it is mostly true, on first read it almost sounded like you were saying that a persons opinion about a game being fun could not change. But the second quote covers it more clearly. So long as we have the option of leaving if we find a game is not "as advertised", or something happens in RL where we just don't have the time. I too have a pet peeve about people just vanishing so unless I am incapacitated I will always try to resolve things in the group/game first, failing that I will make it clear I intend to leave. If everyone were to do that then this would be a non-issue, methinks.


Lastly, while you don't seem to want to make it a rule, and I can see why. Could there be a strong recommendations thread, suggesting that people ask more questions in the interest checks? It honestly just mat not have occurred to some people.

 

[Thorn Darkblade]

*cough cough* I'm guilty of this, but from an ST end. Although, I do (sorta) try to keep my players updated... In any case, yes, it is sorta annoying when players vanish without a trace. Did have a couple games that didn't die from my absence, but from one or two pivotal players just poofing.


However, in the name of not being too heavy handed, here's my opinion on such things:


A temporary ban shouldn't be the first thing out of the gate. Warnings first. Also, there should be exceptions to overrule it...let's say someone lost internet due to financial issues, or was in a coma for a few months...it's kinda hard to inform your ST of why you're gone then.

 

[Pineapple]

[QUOTE="Thorn Darkblade]
A temporary ban shouldn't be the first thing out of the gate. Warnings first. Also, there should be exceptions to overrule it...let's say someone lost internet due to financial issues, or was in a coma for a few months...it's kinda hard to inform your ST of why you're gone then.

[/QUOTE]
You should really read my posts in here, I address both of those issues you have, also, no one ever gets banned.

 

[Tabby]

Well thanks for the clarifications folks, this isn't something that would ever affect me personally but I was initially curious; relieved to hear that it sounds like you guys have it well under control and are pretty reasonable about it.