Rolling for DV

[Silence In Daylight]

Conrad recommended that Hearthstone Bracers dice be included in the calculation. It's not official errata.

 

[The Scorp]

yeah well, its a clarification though.


Personally I think its should straight add to DV after calculation.  More powerful yeah, but hey, its Exalted.

 

[Persell]

How can there be two school of thought on the stunt thing? As Arc points out, the text is pretty explicit.

Because page 124 and 147 directly contradict each other.


I find my argument pretty convincing (OC! It can be found on the thread Gtroc linked to).


Basically, the instruction to "treat the bonus dice as if they had been awarded by successes rolled with the First Excellency" is utter nonsense because the First Excellency doesn't award bouns dice for rolled successes. So I'm interpreting that as the error, and the real version is on page 147: "the defender's player rolls the stunt dice seperately and adds any successes to the character's DV."


The second option makes sense, because it maintains the same scale of bonus as 1E. think about it: if you roll some extra dice, you can statistically expect half of them to be successes. Not all of them. So adding the stunt bonus directly to DV doubles the effectiveness of stunts. Now, I think that would make a pretty cool house rule, but it's quite a departure from 1E.

Because I really don't want to resurrect a month old thread, I'll just state that, using some common sense, I would assume that a rule that is bolded and has a very explicit example after the bold part would supercede the little statement thrown in later in the book. And the first sentence was clear to me - treat the stunt dice as if they had rolled automatic successes on a First Excellency roll.


As far as doubling the efficiency of stunts, it removes some of the randomness of stunt dice. Nothing like spending 5 minutes describing a 3 die stunt, and not getting a single success on the extra dice. Then again, this rule would also prevent some lucky guy from getting 4 extra DV from 2 stunt dice.


I'm not perpetuating this argument for my own selfish desires to quibble over small rules....not at all!

 

[The Scorp]

True, but why not have all stunt dice just give auto suxx with normal rolls.  Like you said, nothing like taking 5 minutes to desc a 3 die stunt, only to roll no suxx on them.  


Stunt dice are just a probability of getting that extra suxx or two, but its not set in stone that you will get extra suxx just cuz you described something well.  The real reward for stunting is that if you succeed with the stunt then you get essence or willpower back.  


So I can still see, with common sense, that you still gotta roll those extra dice inorder to increase your DV.  Cuz hey, if you roll well, dodge or parry successfully, you get Ess or Will back and thats way more important.  8)


New topic though.  Conrad adds Hearthstone bracer +3 to the Dodgepool before halving it.  Makes sense, cuz it can give +1 or +2 to your DV, thus not really making a 2dot artifact really powerful.  But what about Virtues.  If can channel them, should they be added straight to the calculation before halving it, OR should you roll them and then add suxx to after calculation DV?

 

[Silence In Daylight]

The real reward for stunting is that if you succeed with the stunt then you get essence or willpower back.

 Indeed. Many a game hinged on regularly pulling off at least a two-die stunt every other action, with a Stone of the Revolutionary Dog to keep the WP replenished...


 How else can a character pull off multiple uses of a combo with supplementary WP charms in a single combat?

 

[Persell]

For persistent effects, such as a Hearthstone's +3 to Dodge, I would add before dividing just because it would be a hassle to constantly roll and then add to it, especially when that character is being constantly attacked by flurries.


For temporary bonuses, such as adding a Virtue, I'd probably have them roll it because that's what it is, a temporary boost that's only going to last the action.  It should be rolled because that's what the character is counting on to get him through it but he's not sure that it will.


If stunts are quite prevalent in a game, I actually like the idea of giving stunt successes instead, for the reason that I described above - it's simpler and faster to just add them to the DV and it will also really foster stunting if done that way.


When a Solar can either add 5 successes or roll 10 dice on top of the 15-20 he's going to roll for his normal pool, having 1-3 successes won't matter that much, methinks.


And now watch the statisticians here prove me wrong.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

When a Solar can either add 5 successes or roll 10 dice on top of the 15-20 he's going to roll for his normal pool, having 1-3 successes won't matter that much, methinks.

 No mathematicians, just situational circumstances...such as the extra successes meaning the difference between missing and hitting.  8)

 

[Forn Clakes]

Just to throw my oar in, I was looking back at the recent "Return to the Tomb of 5 Corners" adventure and going over the rules there, since they were aimed at new players to Exalted (apparently).  All the bonuses to DV, be it stunts or hearthstone bracers, were rolled first and then added to the DV.  Now, I havn't ST'd any 2nd Edition stories or combat scenes yet, but rolling for defense seemed to me something that the new system was trying to avoid.  


And the fucking errata doesn't even help at all!  :evil:


~FC.