More 2nd Edition

[Relic]

I'm more or less on the same line as you, Stillborn.


Here's my reasoning:


When you learn to fight, you also learn to not get hurt. Hence, to avoid getting hurt you should use the appropriate fighting skill.


If you are not a trained fighter your only way to not get hurt is dodging and weaving. This is covered nicely by the athletics skill with a proper -2 def rating (since basically you are trained in moving your body, not in moving your body away from someone trying to harm you - two very different things). If you want to get rid of this penalty, buy yourself a specialty.


Dodging in itself has no offensive aspect, and as such any kind of dedicated training going into it seems to be pointless, flawed, and a waste to me. Even in Aikido - which is renowned for its extremely defensive nature - every defensive move is also a move that puts your opponent in a disadvantageous situation of potential hurt. The Aikido practicioner does not start the fight but he certainly ends it. Dodge skill doesn't.


Dodging also draws out combat, and even if a good long, cinematic clash can be nice every now and then I don't like to deviate too far from the fact that ordinary combat with weapons is a nasty affair where people get badly injured and are often out of the fight in a few quick moves.


Even _if_ someone comes up with The Art of Defending Without Attacking, I'd slap it in the Brawl skill or the Athletics skill. It simply does not warrant its own precious slot on the sheet.

 

[Persell]

if they encounter a Hazard-3 creature it gives 1 XP each.  If they encounter a Hazard 4' date=' it is one level above them, so double it for 2 XP, a Hazard-5 is 2 levels above them, so if they live through it, give them 4 XP.  Anything less than a Hazard-3 challenge nets no extra XP for the session.[/quote']
I'm gonna need a source before I will have even the slightest belief that White Wolf is doing this. This isn't a love it or hate it thing, I just don't believe it.

My problem with the excellencys is that a given exalt's excellencys should be different from any other exalts excellencys. A Solar with Dex 5' date=' Melee 5, and a straight sword should be different from a Dragon Blooded with the same stats when comparing basic dice pools.[/quote']
I haven't heard anything about them removing the Essence cap on the dice-adder charms. The article doesn't state that all Exalts will have access to all Excellencies, or that the mechanical effects for all Excellencies will be identical for all Exalt types. I don't think they'd ever decide it was a good idea to, say, let Dragon-Bloods buy dice pools as big as Solars. That would break the setting, and they've made it pretty clear they like the setting more or less as-is.


But from the comic it's obvious that Solars can buy a melee dice-adder and a presence success-adder.


So the impression I get is that they're clearing up a big mess of charms into a single set of mechanics, and making sure that each Exalt type has it where it counts. I mean, Solars obviously need a Presence successes adder. They just do. And in 2nd ed they have one. This will fit into their whole social mechanical system, making Solars really fucking dangerous when they turn on the Manipulation + Presence and the like.

 

[Flagg]

A golden glove boxer can be dropped by a snake-bite' date=' where Jeff Corwin ( a fairly scrawny man) could take most snakebites with decent ease.[/quote']
I think you might want to get your prescription checked. Many Golden Glove boxers are 130 lb, wiry motherfuckers, whereas Jeff Corwin is actually a fairly sturdy fellow.

Golden Glove Boxer

Jeff Corwin

 

[DeepFlowingRiver]

corwin looks like he was in the military.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Have people done a breakdown of the potential 2nd Ed Excellencies for each Exalt type? If we assume that each Exalt gets a dice-adder (with different caps, like 1st Ed), and Solars now get success buyers and re-rolls, where does that leave the other Exalts?


 I think that DBs should keep the group dice-buyer mechanic; depending on what the Solar re-roll mechanic is, they may retain a weaker version (if the Solar version allows the Exalt to keep the better of the two rolls, then the DB version would require the Exalt to keep the second result).


 Don't know Lunars as well as I should (their charm bushes are annoying), so comments are welcome. A difficulty reducer, perhaps? Or perhaps something along the lines of the Alchemicals' Sustained Augmentation of Whatever?


 For Abyssals, a dice-reducer springs immediately to mind


 Siddies--TN reducers and TN increasers...

 

[Persell]

Have people done a breakdown of the potential 2nd Ed Excellencies for each Exalt type? If we assume that each Exalt gets a dice-adder (with different caps' date=' like 1st Ed), and Solars now get success buyers and re-rolls, where does that leave the other Exalts?[/quote']
Nobody's done the breakdown. There's a lot of speculation on the official WW forum (linked from article); much of it misguided IMO (not that speculation is ever really misguided, as long as it's just speculation). A lot of people assume that the Exalt-specific effects are Excellencies. They could just be Charms of another sort.

 

[Ker'ion]

What EM failed to mention was that I said I was going to do the same thing on social situations.


Would you give bonus XP for a player that destroyed a young would be mayor in an election?  What if he took down a Guild Prince in a political war?


I believe that bonus XP should be attributed fairly, not just for roleplaying, but for overcoming a properly difficult enemy.


If the party ventured into the Wyld and ran into a Cataphract war party or a Wyld storm (due to the randomness of the Wyld, plotting it out before game is against my ethics as an ST) would they get no bonus XP because, as it was put:

Wow, that Hazard Rating things smacks of D20, so bad it offends me. Very much so. I will NEVER EVER give XP because my players killed something. This is something that I HATE about D&D, it just ends up being a slaughter-fest.
quote]


Go Cheetah.   That is what I said to Ker'ion I will never ever give XP for making something dead therefore I will never run a D20 game.

I don't mind players not getting XP for beating up a pack of sewer rats, but if they run into a major problem and, even with their best effort, charms, and combos, they all crawl out with only a few health levels left, would you ignore the battle because it was giving them XP for killing something?


That is, personally, one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.


If the players beg for something to slaughter and go hunting for monsters to kill and end up getting their asses handed to them, I wouldn't give them a drop of extra XP, but I'm of the same opinion in my d20 games.


Why stop them from getting XP they rightly deserve because it was just 'making something dead'?

 

[Persell]

Why stop them from getting XP they rightly deserve because it was just 'making something dead'?

Because the Storyteller is the one who decides how tough the opposition is going to be. Physical or social or whatever. I'm not going to award XP based on my own decisions. Not for the players defeating a threat which I decided would be conquerable, any more than I'm going to deny them XP for being beaten by a threat I decided was going to beat them.


If they defeat my expectations and get past something I hadn't expected them to, then sure they get some extra XP. But not because they conquered something powerful; because they exercised enough imagination and panache to go beyond my expectations. And if they just did it through lucky dice rolls, why should I give them anything for it?


I dunno, this whole thing just became a non-debate to me. There's no reason to believe this is going to be an official rule, and if it's a house rule there's no way I'm going to argue about it.

 

[Persell]

I look very much forward to the new book. The other exalt books might end up in digital versions to be copied, but I will buy the solar book.


The changes are all very fine. Most of them I more or less already have in houserule versions. I am a little concerned about the social combat system, though. It seems to me, that social conflict should stay wholly in the field of roleplaying and not be subjected to dice rolls. A shame, that they will waste space on that.


Aside from that, it's all good by my standards

 

[Persell]

I don't mind players not getting XP for beating up a pack of sewer rats, but if they run into a major problem and, even with their best effort, charms, and combos, they all crawl out with only a few health levels left, would you ignore the battle because it was giving them XP for killing something?


That is, personally, one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.


If the players beg for something to slaughter and go hunting for monsters to kill and end up getting their asses handed to them, I wouldn't give them a drop of extra XP, but I'm of the same opinion in my d20 games.


Why stop them from getting XP they rightly deserve because it was just 'making something dead'?

If I place something for the players to encounter (social, mental, or physical) then it there because I want it to be and it would make a very boring game if there were no chllenges to overcome. I believe the current XP system works just fine, 4 for a session and bonus if they do something GREAT. Defeating a villian in expected.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

The changes are all very fine. Most of them I more or less already have in houserule versions. I am a little concerned about the social combat system, though. It seems to me, that social conflict should stay wholly in the field of roleplaying and not be subjected to dice rolls. A shame, that they will waste space on that.
Aside from that, it's all good by my standards

 That's all well and good for experienced social gamers, who know how to walk the walk and talk the talk. But for a novice or just a not-very-expressive gamer who happens to be playing a high Presence/Socialize character...


 Besides, right now the social charms are not written with being used head-to-head in mind; the mechanics are lacking. If they only fix the charms to give the mechanics of those charm interactions, I'll be happy.

 

[psychoph]

That's all well and good for experienced social gamers, who know how to walk the walk and talk the talk. But for a novice or just a not-very-expressive gamer who happens to be playing a high Presence/Socialize character...


 Besides, right now the social charms are not written with being used head-to-head in mind; the mechanics are lacking. If they only fix the charms to give the mechanics of those charm interactions, I'll be happy.

I think I would disagree with that.  I think that some social interactions should include a dice rolling system.  Besides the normal argument of some players aren't good socially I think that social rolls can also help move conversations along not only between players and NPC’s but players and players.  The group I play with often will spend 1-2 hours debating the merits of this approach or that approach to the point where the group is separated into separate camps.  Then several of the players will get to the point of stubbornness where they no longer will listen to reason or will argue just to argue.  I believe, but have not tested, that a social combat system is a useful way to resolve these conversations without getting into the 1-2 hour long debate.  Once all sides have been presented and the standstill has been obtained a GM can simply ask for the social combat resolution and the group can move forward.  It is something I have seen discussed in several other RPG blogs and forums and I believe that a social resolution system has merits for keeping games moving and not stagnating.


I am not arguing the merits of Exalted's current system because I don't entirely grasp the details, but I think that a player playing a socially charismatic, or martially intelligent character should be able to roll dice if he or she is unable to convince the other players via words to do what their character thinks is best.  It is something that depends on the group though; if your player’s personalities never come into social conflict over an issue then I can see social rule systems being only for those situations where you have players that are unable to communicate as eloquently as they feel their character might be able to.

 

[The Apprentice]

I definetly agree with you 'psychoph', as a player I don't see why I should be limited in what personal traits my character has just because /i don't have them myself. What I enjoy is being able to give my character certain traits that I personally don't have. This I can find an exciting challenge, but when you're in that certain social situation and you don't think you are as convincing as you want your character to be, then I don't see why using a dice roll should be a bad thing. I wouldn't want to use a dice to decide everything I do, and I'd want to avoid it in Social situations.

 

[Persell]

The reason I'm happy to see the social combat system is because I don't see the need to play out every important social encounter, any more than I see the need to play out every combat. "Burning Palm, affronted, browbeats the guard to let us past" should serve just as well as a lengthy and clever piece of role-playing.


I won't use the mechanical guidelines for every conversation, any more than I use the mechanics for every combat.

 

[Guard]

I think that all the changes they have represented so far are for the better.


After reading what's written by John Cambers I can't help but get a good feeling overall.It seems like combats will be much more smooth than in the current system.The thing about the social combat also seems appropriate.I always thought that the system needed to be revised about the social situations.


Yet there are thÅŸngs that trouble my mind ever since I heard about the second edition.Since they are yet to make any comments about it I think what I fear will eventually come to pass.Will they procure us with a method to apply these changes and all the inevitable chain reaction they will create to the rest of the game?Or will we depend on future releases,and if so how will they expect from us to be so much patient?


I see that they are making a second edition storyteller's companion.It might cover all the areas of the game that needs fixing.But what about all the first edition material ever published?What about the hardcovers?What if the new storyteller companion won't help us enough to get it all done?Will I ever be able to shop Exalted Comics from Amazon?Since it's the only way for me to get my hands on them.Ok the last one has nothing to do with the topic it just got out of my hand for a second.I think my limit's going to explode

 

[Persell]

I see that they are making a second edition storyteller's companion.It might cover all the areas of the game that needs fixing.But what about all the first edition material ever published?What about the hardcovers?What if the new storyteller companion won't help us enough to get it all done?Will I ever be able to shop Exalted Comics from Amazon?Since it's the only way for me to get my hands on them.Ok the last one has nothing to do with the topic it just got out of my hand for a second.I think my limit's going to explode

Try finding power combat rules for older things, like Flying Silver Dream.

 

[HQ-Man]

Hi, fellow Role-players!


I hope i'm not the only one concerned with the question: "What am I going to do with all the books i already got?"


You see, I admit Exalted really needed a revision (specially to deal with combat speed), but I'm bothered by the fact that, by Brazil's standarts (where I live), i've spent an INSANE AMOUNT OF MONEY buying all the fatsplats and more than a couple softcover supplements.


Now, if all the books after the core are in need of a revision too, does that mean I have to throw the outdated ones alway? I really hope WW to include an appendix on the 2nd edition on how to convert the old rules to the new, or publish such conversion on PDF format at the website.


Do you agree?

 

[Ker'ion]

After reading what's written by John Cambers I can't help but get a good feeling overall.It seems like combats will be much more smooth than in the current system.The thing about the social combat also seems appropriate.I always thought that the system needed to be revised about the social situations.

If you think combat doesn't run smooth in 1st edition Exalted, try playing Dungeons and Dragons 3rd edition, 3.5, or even worse, the old second edition.


AD&D will set a nervous twitch off in you that'll never heal.


:shock:

 

[memesis]

I hope i'm not the only one concerned with the question: "What am I going to do with all the books i already got?"

This seems to be the number one thing people say, and is just a little ahead of "I loathe (rule change) with the intensity of a thousand suns".


Let's look very carefully at what you have now.  You have several books that collectively contain the following things:

• Setting and story information about the canonical world

• Lists of NPCs, organizations, cities, and other places

• Story ideas or inspirations

and

• Mechanical rules for things like Charms and weapons

Your existing books are good for the top three items.  I fully expect adaption rules for the mechanics, but really, how much do you actually think you are losing here?

 

[Guest]

[quote="Quicksilver Cheetah


If I place something for the players to encounter (social, mental, or physical) then it there because I want it to be and it would make a very boring game if there were no chllenges to overcome. I believe the current XP system works just fine, 4 for a session and bonus if they do something GREAT. Defeating a villian in expected.


Woop there it is (where the hell did that come from... O Tag team)

 

[Guest]

I definetly agree with you 'psychoph'' date=' as a player I don't see why I should be limited in what personal traits my character has just because /i don't have them myself.[/quote']
I won't let a player just roll some dice to solve soical problem I want them to think and say what they need to say unless they are arguing with each other then i will force a roll and see what happenes

 

[Guest]

I'll buy the second edition book just to get any updates on canon story and new charms that I hafe to convert to 1st I still say every rull change I've seen so far is sickening

 

[Silence In Daylight]

I definetly agree with you 'psychoph'' date=' as a player I don't see why I should be limited in what personal traits my character has just because /i don't have them myself.[/quote']
I won't let a player just roll some dice to solve soical problem I want them to think and say what they need to say unless they are arguing with each other then i will force a roll and see what happenes

 Every interaction? What about dealing with extras?

 

[Persell]

That's all well and good for experienced social gamers' date=' who know how to walk the walk and talk the talk. But for a novice or just a not-very-expressive gamer who happens to be playing a high Presence/Socialize character...[/quote']
I can see the problem. I usually deal with it without dice rolls. When the players are having their characters debate each other I let them roleplay it entirely. If they want to take each others social strengths into account it's their choice - I encourage it, but do not enforce it (thankfully, they usually do). As to their social weaknesses, I fully expect them to roleplay accordingly, and I am proud to say, that, again, they usually do.


When my players have encounters with NPCs I take their different charms and specialties into account when I play the opposing NPC. The dice roll is, so to speak, happening in my head. The reason for this is that I see roleplaying primarily as a social activity. Some things are very hard to solve socially without loosing the drama (combat), but I want to keep social interactions as social as possible, because that is where the fun is in roleplaying. Of course I don't roleplay every little verbal exchange with extras not important to the story. But actually most of them. It depends on the mood at the time, whether I find the extra interesting or not, the level of drama and so on.


I might allow a social dice roll in a situation where the characters, for example, hit the taverns of a city asking questions for a whole day. There would be too many boring people saying things like: "no, I don't know any of that description" too many times. And then again, I might just decide which character got the information and skip the roll.

Besides' date=' right now the social charms are not written with being used head-to-head in mind; the mechanics are lacking. If they only fix the charms to give the mechanics of those charm interactions, I'll be happy.[/quote']
I am not sure, what you are saying here. Do you mean that the charms are not written to be roleplayed? If that is what you mean, I agree with you. But that little problem can be overcome, as I have described above :roll:

 

[Guard]

Ker'ion wrote


You see, I admit Exalted really needed a revision (specially to deal with combat speed), but I'm bothered by the fact that, by Brazil's standarts (where I live), i've spent an INSANE AMOUNT OF MONEY buying all the fatsplats and more than a couple softcover supplements.

Same here.Although I'm not in Brasil I've still spent a fortune on them.They should better give me a convert system or I'll mark my limit full.

Ker'ion wrote


Try finding power combat rules for older things, like Flying Silver Dream.

You're absolutely right.Although they did procure us with a new equipement list  in the players guide older things like Flying Silver Dream were not covered.In the end they got away by saying that the exalted power combat was an optional system and that we were free in not using it.It just doesn't help us get everything done.Again I must state that it would be better for them to present a convert system so that everyone might be satisfied.