List of possible Throne-contenders

No no no.  He'd just be the head of the new Deliberative.  For a while at least.  


But yeah, basically.  A naturally gifted politician who gains power in a series of lightning fast strokes, seemingly coming out of no where, and welds the nation together to face an internal or external threat.  If the version of Creation that exists in my head ever undergoes the Locust Crusade I'll be having a new power arise in the Realm.  Most nations are never more than a few speeches away from having a new ruler at the head of a radically different government.  The peasant revolts in the Realm always failed in the past, but I doubt they had backing from a large group of young, disillusioned Dynasts and Exalts.
 
Locust Crusade aside, I've always wanted to make something akin to the rise of the Nazi party/World War II into a backdrop for a game or something the characters get embroiled in.
 
It would be interesting to see the Realm industrialize like Germany did.  Lookshy so easily turns into Britain in this scenario it's not even funny.  Picture the intrigue that would go on between the two.  And then play the Autos as the Soviets...damn.  This is too easy.
 
Locust Crusade aside' date=' I've always wanted to make something akin to the rise of the Nazi party/World War II into a backdrop for a game or something the characters get embroiled in.[/quote']
You could have a charismatic new Death Lord/Knight with a penchant for praising a specific race.  Give him an industrial background, maybe something in the South for firedust access, or in the East for easier access to blitzkrieg friendly neighbors.
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True, I think that would fit, but I've always thought of maybe someone unifying the Lookshy alliances, taking in the Marukan and Marin Bay together. A brash new officer rasing to the rank of Council of Advisors or the like, or as said with the Realm, the Delibrative, seeing as the Regent is (read it in the DB books, this is true) a masturbating fool who doesn't know what the fuck is going on. Have the new leader set forth an expansion of the military (to finally balance the Realm's numbers against the ever larger amounts of people in the militaries of other nations), a unification of the Houses, the Pure. I think it would be a quite interesting ordeal in either way of doing it. Lookshy or the Realm.
 
Is there enough dissatisfaction, disillusionment, AND economic downturn in Lookshy or the Realm to pull this off?


 Hitler managed a lot of what he did not just because people were looking for someone to blame, but that he sold the moneybags and powers-that-be that he could refill their pockets and restore their clout. Without that, he'd never have taken over Germany via legal means...and a bonafide rebellion rarely succeeded in those days.


 Now, creating such DD&ED would not be that difficult in the Realm; for example, say that the southern Realm satrapies--Yane, Harborhead, Chiaruscuro, Paragon, and the Lap all start showing signs of serious, revenue-decreasing trouble--that only a legion or three could take care of, but should have no problem doing so.


 Consider the number and areas affected, the Houses may even be convinced that a joint effort is called for. Some thirty to forty Legions are assembled, and sent to the southern Threshold.


 Where they are systematically, thoroughly, taken apart, as much as the Bull blew away the Tepet Legions.


 At the end of the 'short, victorious war,' the Realm is forced to sign a humiliating treaty giving up huge military and economic concessions, in order for the surviving leaders of the Legions to return home, mostly unscathed.


 Other satrapies, seeing the direction the wind is blowing, take the chance to reduce or forgo their annual tribute entirely, and the Realm can not retaliate properly, worsening their economy.


 Under this kind of circumstance, where the leaders of the Houses have suffered such an embarassing lapse of judgment, a charismatic nobody can best arise and take control of the Deliberative. Once he kicks a few asses, chops off a few heads, and gets rid of the worst of the Empress' brakes on the Imperial government--and improves conditions, he could well get himself appointed Emperor.
 
i think lookshy would be the best for a model of a natzi germany, after Hitler asended to power, since they have what can be seen as likly the most powerful Millitary right now with less cracks then the realm has, you dont always need a lot of downtrodden or encomic problems to start a war, history has shown people to be a violent, bigoted group.....


Lookshy see's all the crap thats going on in the world, how disorginized everything is, how inpure everyone is, hell some areas they are worshiping those damn solars, the realm, their long time rival for power is weakend and on its last leg, seemingly caring more about their pointless intrigue then keeping this world safe and pure.... somones gotta do somthing...


its not hard of a strech...


because we just like shooting our neighbors
 
i think lookshy would be the best for a model of a natzi germany, after Hitler asended to power, since they have what can be seen as likly the most powerful Millitary right now with less cracks then the realm has, you dont always need a lot of downtrodden or encomic problems to start a war, history has shown people to be a violent, bigoted group.....
Lookshy see's all the crap thats going on in the world, how disorginized everything is, how inpure everyone is, hell some areas they are worshiping those damn solars, the realm, their long time rival for power is weakend and on its last leg, seemingly caring more about their pointless intrigue then keeping this world safe and pure.... somones gotta do somthing...


its not hard of a strech...


because we just like shooting our neighbors
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Sorry but did you ever read the politics part of lookshy? It is very much like modern america, with isolationist and interventionist fractions and has actually *nothing* in common with pre WW2 or WW2 germany. starting with a working economy, a military which was never defeated and a competent leadership.


Hitler rose to power because of the economical disaster which we call world war one reperations and the inability of german's elected leadership to listen to the needs of the country (not that hitler did but he pretended to well enough).


Actually there is no way you could portray hitler's rise to power in exalted without establishing a democracy first. the horror of his comes from him turning a democracy to a machinery of death.
 
rawr i know lookshys current politics, i ment it as it would be the best contender for a WW2 germany from the horror of it, and with so many dragon blooded and their we are better then you attitude that it isnt a long strech for them to go down that dark lane, you dont need a reson for a atrocity to happen, you dont need over riding factors to help push people towards commiting one, most people have a follow the leader mentalty, and most leaders have a over active paranoia built in, and the dragon blooded have a damn good reson (in their eyes) to stay in control, when it starts to look like they are loosing that control, its not hard to see em snapping and going to extreams


besides, the realm is in bad shape as it is, they are loosing people fast and arnt up to par of what they were, lookshy was almost a even match for the realm with the empress and booted them back to their island multiple times in their little clashs, now the realm is detorating and weakend, lookshy is as strong as ever for the most part and in a better poshion to invade their neighbors
 
rawr i know lookshys current politics' date=' i ment it as it would be the best contender for a WW2 germany from the horror of it, and with so many dragon blooded and their we are better then you attitude that it isnt a long strech for them to go down that dark lane, you dont need a reson for a atrocity to happen, you dont need over riding factors to help push people towards commiting one, most people have a follow the leader mentalty, and most leaders have a over active paranoia built in, and the dragon blooded have a damn good reson (in their eyes) to stay in control, when it starts to look like they are loosing that control, its not hard to see em snapping and going to extreams[/quote']
Where the heck did you get this from? If anything, Lookshy by-the-book is more principled than the real contenders during WWII, including Britain. Where did you find anything saying that they have a higher-than-thou attitude? If you read "The Outcaste", you'd know that the Dragon-bloods are largely treated the same as normal citizens, and achieve high positions in Lookshy by virtue of their superhuman skill rather than Nepotism, as in the realm.


Lookshy soldiers respect their enemies, also. They have a stern policy of no looting, no defacing, no mutilation. They bury all of the dead, including their fallen foes. They have a watch on duty near the city where they detonated that superweapon, purely out of respect.


They have a samurai-ish code of honour, which should allay some fears right away of wanton violence, and on top of that they have a traditional maxim that they will not follow or respect an unworthy leader.


They would even listen and tolerate a careful, honourable solar if he/she approached them correctly.


The only thing they do "wrong" in canon, compared to everyone else, is acting as mercenaries, and by doing so they have placed themselves in a position where they can control the scavenger lands and prevent outright war all the time.


Also, Lookshy historically didn't have any real urge to invade the Realm, and their outlook for the most part at the moment is not that of a Wolf after finding crippled prey, but more like "Hey, look. They're falling apart. Do you suppose we should do something? You know, like make sure the Defence Grid is still active?"


If anyone is going to end up Reich-tastic at the end of the day, it'll be the realm.


-False honour covering self-serving intent


-History of political backstabbing, perfect for a Dark Horse


-Large military, desperately seeking leadership and renewed support


-Religious institution willing to back a strong leader, whoever s/he is


-Already have a heavily tiered society, perfect for descrimination.


Come on.. Lookshy? Pfft.
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mabey im just loving the idea of lookshy going bad since they are in the most stratic poshion avable and looking at the most cyncial outcome i can
 
Is there enough dissatisfaction, disillusionment, AND economic downturn in Lookshy or the Realm to pull this off?
 Hitler managed a lot of what he did not just because people were looking for someone to blame, but that he sold the moneybags and powers-that-be that he could refill their pockets and restore their clout. Without that, he'd never have taken over Germany via legal means...and a bonafide rebellion rarely succeeded in those days.


 Now, creating such DD&ED would not be that difficult in the Realm; for example, say that the southern Realm satrapies--Yane, Harborhead, Chiaruscuro, Paragon, and the Lap all start showing signs of serious, revenue-decreasing trouble--that only a legion or three could take care of, but should have no problem doing so.


 Consider the number and areas affected, the Houses may even be convinced that a joint effort is called for. Some thirty to forty Legions are assembled, and sent to the southern Threshold.


 Where they are systematically, thoroughly, taken apart, as much as the Bull blew away the Tepet Legions.


 At the end of the 'short, victorious war,' the Realm is forced to sign a humiliating treaty giving up huge military and economic concessions, in order for the surviving leaders of the Legions to return home, mostly unscathed.


 Other satrapies, seeing the direction the wind is blowing, take the chance to reduce or forgo their annual tribute entirely, and the Realm can not retaliate properly, worsening their economy.


 Under this kind of circumstance, where the leaders of the Houses have suffered such an embarassing lapse of judgment, a charismatic nobody can best arise and take control of the Deliberative. Once he kicks a few asses, chops off a few heads, and gets rid of the worst of the Empress' brakes on the Imperial government--and improves conditions, he could well get himself appointed Emperor.
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Very nice, I like it.
 
mabey im just loving the idea of lookshy going bad since they are in the most stratic poshion avable and looking at the most cyncial outcome i can
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There is a case for that, to be sure. It's just unlikely.


You are right though, in that there are several factions in the government that would be nuts enough to up the panic level and start hitting things. The purist uber-christian ones want to kill the Solars, subjugate the Scavenger lands, and then start a crusade on the holy land and smish the infidels.


The ("Interventionists"? is that right) want to take over the realm to save Creation from the disarray it is in, and ensure the enemies of Creation know their place and fear the defences. It would be easy for some of the Lookshy high-ups to try and leverage their power if they succeeded. I can see the gruff old general of the First Legion appearing in a red dress to every town in creation. Hardly a good start to your new empire.


From my perspective I prefer the idea of the Realm going nuts and Lookshy being the only force powerful enough to do anything about it. Everything is set up for the Realm: People are scrabbling for power, others are being shunted out of their previous seats of wealth and influence. The downtrodden are being trodden on some more, and the houses have already started amassing legions of their own. If there isn't to be outright civil war, someone's got to step in and somehow placate everyone and take control. Given the situation, anyone able to do so at this stage is unlikely to be on the level.


You could end up with an apparently peaceful, righteous state, but underneath it plays everyone off one another, conquers small, helpless nations for their jade mines and outcompetes other countries economically in a bid to control everything, all the while with a finger on the button of the realm defences in case things go bad.


They play their own citizens so that only the patricians have a chance of making anything of themselves, and they use political whack to control larger companies and trading houses, restricting the flow of information to the populace and encouraging them that their every act is sane and right.


Wouldn't that be an interesting story?
 
yes it would, though i still like the idea with lookshy going offensive, since everyone has more or less accepted their stay away policy, them suddenly coming in claiming they are doing this for the good of all intrigues me, it wouldnt take them long to strangle the scavanger lands and start to roll ealswere, this gives the realm 1 last chance to prove it is worthy of its poshion, while the frachered groups of celestial exalts scramble to try and prove they can be good guys too, and since lookshy has docments agenst inferfferance from the madien of battles, it ensures it is a creation only sorta deal (with sprits providing under the table help when they can) sorta thing
 
It's always a good time on the forum to get the creative juices flowing from all points. All the ideas you've all come up with are great ^_^
 
Samiel said:
rawr i know lookshys current politics' date=' i ment it as it would be the best contender for a WW2 germany from the horror of it, and with so many dragon blooded and their we are better then you attitude that it isnt a long strech for them to go down that dark lane, you dont need a reson for a atrocity to happen, you dont need over riding factors to help push people towards commiting one, most people have a follow the leader mentalty, and most leaders have a over active paranoia built in, and the dragon blooded have a damn good reson (in their eyes) to stay in control, when it starts to look like they are loosing that control, its not hard to see em snapping and going to extreams[/quote']
Where the heck did you get this from? If anything, Lookshy by-the-book is more principled than the real contenders during WWII, including Britain. Where did you find anything saying that they have a higher-than-thou attitude? If you read "The Outcaste", you'd know that the Dragon-bloods are largely treated the same as normal citizens, and achieve high positions in Lookshy by virtue of their superhuman skill rather than Nepotism, as in the realm.


Lookshy soldiers respect their enemies, also. They have a stern policy of no looting, no defacing, no mutilation. They bury all of the dead, including their fallen foes. They have a watch on duty near the city where they detonated that superweapon, purely out of respect.


They have a samurai-ish code of honour, which should allay some fears right away of wanton violence, and on top of that they have a traditional maxim that they will not follow or respect an unworthy leader.


They would even listen and tolerate a careful, honourable solar if he/she approached them correctly.


The only thing they do "wrong" in canon, compared to everyone else, is acting as mercenaries, and by doing so they have placed themselves in a position where they can control the scavenger lands and prevent outright war all the time.


Also, Lookshy historically didn't have any real urge to invade the Realm, and their outlook for the most part at the moment is not that of a Wolf after finding crippled prey, but more like "Hey, look. They're falling apart. Do you suppose we should do something? You know, like make sure the Defence Grid is still active?"


If anyone is going to end up Reich-tastic at the end of the day, it'll be the realm.


-False honour covering self-serving intent


-History of political backstabbing, perfect for a Dark Horse


-Large military, desperately seeking leadership and renewed support


-Religious institution willing to back a strong leader, whoever s/he is


-Already have a heavily tiered society, perfect for descrimination.


Come on.. Lookshy? Pfft.
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I second this down to the last word.
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lookshy has docments agenst inferfferance from the madien of battles' date=' it ensures it is a creation only sorta deal (with sprits providing under the table help when they can) sorta thing[/quote']
I'd forgotten about that.. Although it mightn't stop the Siderials interfering in the war outside the walls, it does offer the city proper some protection against undermining or counteroffensives led by Siderials. And if the seat of government became Lookshy in the end of it all, and the Maiden of War didn't revoke those dictates, what happens to the poor Bronze faction? No longer able to puppet the rulers of creation due to their auspicious geographic location, I think they'd be in something of a pickle.


mmm.. pickle.
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No matter what the more ambitious of Lookshy's ruling elite may think, Lookshy is unlikely to have enough resources to go Creation-conquering.


 Where is their income coming from? Mercenary contracts, consulting contracts, and the like. Mercantile interactions withe Guild, on some level. No tribute from vassal states or exploiting natural resources...not too much, at any rate.


 As of right now, despite their caches of First Age and Shogunate materials, they can barely take--and hold--the entire Scavenger Lands, what with Mask of Winters a threat to the south, the barbarians, Lunars, and Fair Folk to the south and east, the Realm to the West, and a potentially scary Bull to the north.


 A quick contrast to 1930s Germany--Germany didn't start conquering from day 1. It grabbed Czechoslovakia, Austria, and sundry other pieces of real estate via 'military diplomacy,' and the other European powers backed down. Then it negotiated a secret non-aggression pact with the Soviet Union...before all hell broke loose when Poland was munched.


 Now, if Lookshy starts setting up 'protectorates' in the Scavenger Lands, comes to terms about power- and resource-sharing with Great Forks, Nexus, and other notable SL cities, AND finds some way of reducing their border-patrol commitment...then one might start getting scared.
 
Wait a second.


"They have a samurai-ish code of honour, which should allay some fears right away of wanton violence"


You do know those saumrai routinely slaughtered entire populations, right?  And that the industrialized Japanese military, that used bushido as a propagandic tool, committed countless atrocities?


Sorry for the off-topicness.
 
To bring this back onto topic, for the people who said Ejava wasn't a contender..


She is presented as one of the two major contenders ( Mnemon and Ejava ) in the core Exalted 2:nd Ed book, which would speak rather strongly for her and Mnemon ;)
 
Yeah, but I'm more of a fan of the underdog, and Ejava isn't quite as fun for me to use as a contender. Besides, I like using Mnemon to have puppets that she can control on the throne, all the while going about her business.
 
Actually, it was that samurai code of honor that allowed them to commit a lot of atrocities.  Surrender meant you were without a whole lot of honor, and had what was coming to you.  If you'd had honor, you would have died in battle.  Take a look at records on how the Japanese treated their criminals for some real fun.  


That respect for the enemy thing was kind of conditional.  And while there were paragons of virtue, there were a lot of just plain asshats who only paid lip service, and looted, raped, and went around acting a fool, and looked the other way when their men went to excess, even if they didn't particpate, becuase they just didn't rate folks that high on their list.  


While samurai were supposed to be noble, the truth is that most were just  soldiers and petty bureacrats with too much time on their hands.  The myth is what they'd like folks to believe.  It's useful.  Kind of like how chivalry was supposed to protect innocents, and yet, European knights were involved in how much crap?  Committed how many atrocities?  Because God was on their side?  


Take a look at the first Crusade, the one that went into the Langudoc region, against the Unitarians, against the Albegensian Heresy.  THAT was some atrocity for your ass, and done with the full backing of the Church, and for what was described, at the time, for the noblest of reasons.


Militaries have long had problems with looting, burning, and raping of populations, because, in the end, the soldiers aren't always watched, the population isn't always respected, and sometimes, terror is more useful to root out possible resistance than actually fighting folks.  You drive folks before you, and hear the lamentations of their women...


I can see Lookshy losing a bit of shine and polish in the heat of things.
 
'Twas only a matter of time...


 Perhaps, this may inspire you to change your avatar to something that won't make me want to rip my eyes out every time I see it? Your original avatar, for example?
 
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