Half-caste Terrestrials in The Realm

Jukashi

Jukashi

Four Thousand Club
In the PG, it states that Terrestrial Half-caste "were considered prodigious or deficient depending on whether they ultimately Exalted"... in the First Age.


How are they treated in the modern Realm, and how does the Immaculate philosophy view them? Are they below real DBs but above mortals, do they get more respect, are they trained to use their puny powers? Or are they considered unfortunate side-effects, merely a weak reflection of the truly enlightened, and ostracised?
 
I'd say that Dragon-Blooded families probably ostracise them, but not to the extent of getting rid of them completely, but maybe just hide them; "oh... uncle Gerald?  No no... he's working on a project up in the north..."


As for the mortals of the realm, I'd say they probably afford them a great deal of respect; obviously not as much as DBs, but they are STILL elementally aspected and the like.
 
I think the ostracising is unlogical. At worst they could be treated like patricians or children of exalts who do not exalt themselves, they put shame to the family and all but they will not get hidden. After all their chance to have dragon blooded offspring should still be higher than that of a mortal.
 
... not to mention that they probably are more of an asset than your average patrician.
 
question on terrestial half caste.


as far as you can tell are they aspected to one element


e.g. do they have an element whos charms they pay no surcharge for.
 
I thought the Dragon Touched were considered just that much closer to the glory of the Elemental Dragons.


Not as much as the Dragon Blooded, but certainly a bit further along than Mortals.  Certainly, not to be shunned--Dragon Blooded don't shun their family members who didn't Exalt.  Maybe they don't marry them off to full Bloods, but certainly a Dragon Touched bride or husband is a boon to a line that hasn't been producing full Bloods.


I think that the DBs consider their lesser brethren as convienent tools.  Someone who is family, who has a taste of power, but is, ultimately, controllable.  


The Immaculate Order could use extra troops who can harness Terrestrial Arts, and who can wield powers obviously accepted by Elemental Dragons, but can't really compete with full Dragon Bloods.  


I'd say they have more opportunities, both to succeed or fail than their Mortal family members--both because of the expectation that they might eventually express, or in rare instances, actually ascend as a minor diety if they play their cards right.  Who doesn't want a member of their family as a local god?  Yes, you've got demi-gods who walk the earth, and schtupp your daughters, but still, a full on god, who remembers Nana's cooking?  That's got to be worth some points, even in the most jaded of Dragon Bloods.


So they get the opportunity, and some are going to make it, and soem aren't.  And the ones who don't spread the rumor of the Dragon Touched's inferiority, while those who do well, belie the rumor, and prove that these God Bloods are up to the challenge.
 
question on terrestial half caste.
as far as you can tell are they aspected to one element


e.g. do they have an element whos charms they pay no surcharge for.
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 Page 58 of PG refers to an 'inherited Aspect'; therefore, I'd say that they indeed favor a specific element.
 
I would suggest that they have the same aspect as their 'dominant' parent, the one with the highest Essence.


My interpretation of the population numbers would suggest that there are about twice as many Terrestrial Half-Caste in Creation as there are DBs.  So they would be about .02% of the population in the Realm while they would be 2% of the population in Lookshy.  The total number of THCs in Creation should be between 60,000 and 160,000.


As Jakk suggested, they would be seen as very useful pawns, for the older Exalts, and useful friends, for the younger Exalts.  A team of five THCs, one of each element, would definately by a painful encounter for a beginning Solar, especially if THCs are 'encouraged' to work twice as hard to make up for not being Exalted.  After all, THCs are the most likely God-Bloods to have an Inheritance 5, just how the numbers work, so they will have a lifespan of about two centuries.  A THC could work a century in one area, like Sorcery, and could have twenty or thirty Spells or Charms easily in their toolkit
 
Inheritance 5?!


That's on par with being Ligier's offspring. The Unconquered Sun's baby. Chejop's daughter.


There's no way any DB can come up to that number.
 
Jukashi said:
Empress' unExlated kids could manage it, I think. Possibly Mnemon's, too.
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Which basically means that not many of them are around cause virtually all children of these two exalt... or should exalt.
 
That's the great thing for them, isn't it? They should exalt, but if by some far-out chance they don't they'll still be quite powerful half-castes.
 
Which basically means that not many of them are around cause virtually all children of these two exalt... or should exalt.
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Why? What about the Empress would make her offspring more likely to Exalt? Does it stand in relation to her Essence? (which I presume is pretty high for a DB)? Or the fact that she's probably the oldest living DB, ergo her line is not diluted?


If the earlier, it would surely have had noticeable effects throughout Realm history (which it doesn't since the DB:s themselves don't seem to know the reasons for Exaltation). If the latter, that would imply there would have been more DB:s in the old days, simply because the Exaltation frequency would have been higher. As I understand the number of DB:s have been basically constant.


I've always thought the large of exalted offspring that the Empress has to be a simple function of time (of course this means the Empress should have a large mortal family as well).


... I refuse to recognize such an ability in the Empress if it's simply a function of the setting (she is the big mighty leader of the Dragon-Blooded empire, therefore she must be better in every way, including her reproductive capabilities).


<edited for spelling>
 
Ai, ai. There is just the vague sense in the books that the Empress has really good breeding, and people assume it's true. Probably is. She most likely has that merit, too, that lets DBs increase their breeding to 6. Her children just have a better chance of exaltation. Depends on her mate as well.
 
Solfi said:
Which basically means that not many of them are around cause virtually all children of these two exalt... or should exalt.
Click to expand...
Why? What about the Empress would make her offspring more likely to Exalt? Does it stand in relation to her Essence? (which I presume is pretty high for a DB)? Or the fact that she's probably the oldest living DB, ergo her line is not diluted?


If the earlier, it would surely have had noticeable effects throughout Realm history (which it doesn't since the DB:s themselves don't seem to know the reasons for Exaltation). If the latter, that would imply there would have been more DB:s in the old days, simply because the Exaltation frequency would have been higher. As I understand the number of DB:s have been basically constant.


I've always thought the large of exalted offspring that the Empress has to be a simple function of time (of course this means the Empress should have a large mortal family as well).


... I refuse to recognize such an ability in the Empress if it's simply a function of the setting (she is the big mighty leader of the Dragon-Blooded empire, therefor she must be better in every way, including her reproductive capabilities).
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Actually it is a combination of both, high essence and a pure bloodline of the parents increase the chance of the exaltation of the child. The DB have a pretty good idea of why exaltation happens otherwise they would hardly organize the breeding in such a strict manner.
 
... if 'Breeding' is a merit (ie. a trait that occurs in some), I assume it's somewhat unusual. I can accept that as being true. However, if every House's founder has that same merit, we're back at what I said about it being a function of the game...


In some ways it's very nice when game systems have some sense of symmetry in their rules. But when that symmetry intrudes on the realities of the game world, it detracts from it.


@Safim: Again, this would mean that the DB:s of old should have been more numerous.
 
Solfi said:
... if 'Breeding' is a merit (ie. a trait that occurs in some), I assume it's somewhat unusual. I can accept that as being true. However, if every House's founder has that same merit, we're back at what I said about it being a function of the game...
In some ways it's very nice when game systems have some sense of symmetry in their rules. But when that symmetry intrudes on the realities of the game world, it detracts from it.


@Safim: Again, this would mean that the DB:s of old should have been more numerous.
Click to expand...
 Considering that the Empress is implicitly identified as the result of a rather clever breeding program that was apparently important enough to come to the attention of the authorities...sounds like a reasonable source for any odd breeding quirks, no?
 
Solfi said:
... if 'Breeding' is a merit (ie. a trait that occurs in some), I assume it's somewhat unusual. I can accept that as being true. However, if every House's founder has that same merit, we're back at what I said about it being a function of the game...
In some ways it's very nice when game systems have some sense of symmetry in their rules. But when that symmetry intrudes on the realities of the game world, it detracts from it.


@Safim: Again, this would mean that the DB:s of old should have been more numerous.
Click to expand...
Breedings is a background, like artifact etc. And the breeding background just shows a very pure lineage, that does not mean that every house founder does have it or must have it, but the empress is a good bet for a high breeding background.


And terrestrials were much more numerous in the first age. Various sources mention that the armies of the first realm were made of dragon blooded while today the much smaller legions only have dragon blooded officers. So nothing unlogical there.
 
where is this mentioned?


Still though; I prefer my DB:s breeding natural, untampered, and without said intrusion in the game world for purposes of a balanced House set.
 
In Exalted: The dragon blooded page 117 is a detailed description on why dragonblooded marry and mate and that they perfectly know what it is all about.


GoD and several caste books mention armies of terrestrials, I suppose most of them were wiped out when the empress killed the seven tigers or during the fey incursion or during the great plague which is a perfectly good reason for the state of the dragon blooded as they are now.
 
well, of course they know it's in the blood. That's the whole point of the DB:s. The text on p.117 says that breeding with mortals decreases the chances of the offspring Exalting. That still doesn't mean breeding exclusively with other DB:s *insures* Exaltation in offspring.
 
If both parents are pure bred the child has a 90% chance of exalting and even if both parents are the children of patricians who exalted by sheer luck then the child has a 60% chance of exalting while only one dragon blooded parent grants 30% chance of terrestrial exaltation. I think in the last nearly 800 years of careful breeding the dynasts were very well able to figure those numbers out, too.


So, yes mating with dragon bloods only nearly ensures terrestrial exaltation and if that is possible the dynasts always prefer exalted partners, there is just too few of them.
 
... given the multitude of stories of non-Exalted members of the DB-houses, and the worry they all seem to have (when not being so overly arrogant that they cannot even consider the possibility of not Exalting) I'd not say "nearly always"....
 
Solfi said:
... given the multitude of stories of non-Exalted members of the DB-houses, and the worry they all seem to have (when not being so overly arrogant that they cannot even consider the possibility of not Exalting) I'd not say "nearly always"....
Click to expand...
Well I was of course only taking pure metagame knowledge of the mechanics into account and I suppose the truth lies a bit between you and me. After all the pure bred dragonblooded are extremely rare and a 60% to exalt still means that a lot of children "fail in the eyes of the family and the dragons".
 
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