Freeform RPGs . . . Wut?

Personally I don't understand the implication that actual mechanical systems pose any genuine impediment to creativity or roleplaying.


When well implemented, at least. Bad mechanics certainly do.
 
That is a brick wall that I've bashed my head against for years when trying to convert my friends from free-form over to a proper system. "Systems stifle creativity!" They cry, over and over. It makes the derpy dog sad.
 
I disagree with every fiber I have. Unless your definition of "creativity" is control, RP systems do nothing of the sort. If anything, systems can give inspiration and direction to creativity.


Now, where I have a problem with a system is when it gets in the way of me telling a story. When the system stops me from being able to complete actions that make sense narratively, dramatically, and logically. Great examples in most systems are "grappling" and "disarming" opponents. Basically, Batman could never really exist in most RPGs. I have a problem with that. And it's why I tend to gravitate to "lighter" systems.


I say this as I am running 5 Exalted games here. But, if I could condense that game and get the same feel, I would.


Regardless, it's why I started this thread. Freeform seemed like a potential place to trim more fat and get to the good stuff of RPGs.
 
WlfSamurai said:
I disagree with every fiber I have. Unless your definition of "creativity" is control, RP systems do nothing of the sort. If anything, systems can give inspiration and direction to creativity.
Now, where I have a problem with a system is when it gets in the way of me telling a story. When the system stops me from being able to complete actions that make sense narratively, dramatically, and logically. Great examples in most systems are "grappling" and "disarming" opponents. Basically, Batman could never really exist in most RPGs. I have a problem with that. And it's why I tend to gravitate to "lighter" systems.


I say this as I am running 5 Exalted games here. But, if I could condense that game and get the same feel, I would.


Regardless, it's why I started this thread. Freeform seemed like a potential place to trim more fat and get to the good stuff of RPGs.
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Agreed.


I love Exalted and many other systems, but as you can see for your self, I am constantly writing updates and new things for Freeforms that allow me and other people to do exactly what they want, it's why I do it :)
 
Freeform is awesome, I'm enjoying it just as much as I ever enjoyed book-based RPs.


Captain Hesperus
 
[QUOTE="Captain Hesperus]Freeform is awesome, I'm enjoying it just as much as I ever enjoyed book-based RPs.
Captain Hesperus

[/QUOTE]
Freeform is my to go way of doing things unless I need a system for something, for example, I can't run my gunstar adventure that well on thursday with out the exalted system.
 
WlfSamurai said:
That makes sense. Would it be a good idea, then, to ask for a cost to each ability/power/skill more-so than a limit?
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Personally, I feel a mix of both narrative costs and limits is good, for example, I shoot a fire ball from my hand, but I can only do this by drawing from the fire in my soul and require meditation to recharge it(cost), and I can only shoot fireballs when in sunlight as it amplifies my soul allowing it to manifest(limit).


Something like that reminds me of BESM and how it's customization section was pretty much fully customizable aesthetics wise.
 
[QUOTE="The Dark Wizard]Agreed.
I love Exalted and many other systems, but as you can see for your self, I am constantly writing updates and new things for Freeforms that allow me and other people to do exactly what they want, it's why I do it :)

[/QUOTE]
Do you mind elaborating a little more, Wiz? What advantages are you pulling from it that drive you to go freeform?
 
My background is solely in traditional tabletop RP, only PbP, since I can count on one hand the amount of RL sessions I've ever had. My interest has been piqued by the freeform games on the forum. I'm trying to find some time to lurk through the archives of a game or two so I can get a good feel for the style.
 
Okay, so I've been lurking a few of the freeform games here on the site and I like what I see. But, I've got a few additional questions.


First, I see some with a basic system, but some just say "list your skills/talents". Do the latter simply fall back on narrative description during any kind of challenge?


Second, if there's a ST, how does combat play out between NPCs and players? If its a system-less game, do they just always win but with description? How can a system-less game build a challenge?


Last, tell me more about flaws. It seems most of these games at least ask for a few character flaws. Are they just for the ST to exploit?


I really like the speed and focus on narrative these games offer. While I'm not the most verbose writer, the level of character development seems higher (if only a little). I can foresee some great battles in my head without rules to get in the way. I'm just not sure how that translates in actual play.
 
WlfSamurai said:
First, I see some with a basic system, but some just say "list your skills/talents". Do the latter simply fall back on narrative description during any kind of challenge?
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This is usually the case, yes.

WlfSamurai said:
Second, if there's a ST, how does combat play out between NPCs and players? If its a system-less game, do they just always win but with description? How can a system-less game build a challenge?
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In theory you try to write out what makes the most sense. For example if we're role playing two boxers and I throw an uppercut at you, your character could take the hit, dodge, block, or something else. Problems arise (as I mention earlier) when two people have different views on what each character should be capable of. I could feel that my hit should have connected because I'm playing an old boxing trainer who's been at this for years, but you could feel that you're character's youth and agility should allow him to dodge it. This is why I suggest determining a winner before a fight starts, so the rest os just details on how awesome you want to make the fight. Note that this also applies to fights between two PCs in games that don't have storytellers.

WlfSamurai said:
Last, tell me more about flaws. It seems most of these games at least ask for a few character flaws. Are they just for the ST to exploit?
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Character flaws, in my experience, are ways for you to add more depth to the character instead of having him be one dimensional. However I played on forums where anyone could play with anyone else and there was no Story Teller, so it is possible that you might see your flaws brought in to play if you go that rout.
 
JayTee said:
This is why I suggest determining a winner before a fight starts, so the rest is just details on how awesome you want to make the fight.
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I'd like to second this - I've never been interested in fights for their own sake in freeform, only for what they bring to character development, so "winning" is far from first priority. Hell, just the other day I was planning a fight with a friend... that my character will lose, because that works better for her development; we're both excited as hell to write the fight regardleess of who wins because it's a fun excuse for wordplay/descriptive hyperviolence (two dragons... in an entirely human world... yeah there's going to be some damage) and an interesting point for both of their character development.


Preplanning fight endings is not something that not everyone is a fan of, though, and different people will be more or less ok with levels of planning. I'm fine with everything from planning every post of a fight to only deciding the ending, but I've known people who don't want to plan posts to those that just don't care either way. It's definitely something to discuss with your opponent BEFORE the fight starts so everyone is on the same page.
 
This is all really good stuff guys.


So, let's say I'm the ST and you're about to face the "Big Bad" for the story. Do I as the ST tell you that you're going to lose the fight before hand or at least discuss it with you? Or is it just like system RPGs where you don't know and I just write it as it happens?


I realize that this is an over-simplification as there might be additional setup to such a fight (finding a weakness, gathering resources, gaining allies), but it illustrates the question well.
 
And sorry for the extensive questioning. I'm just really fascinated by this style of game. I see a great deal of potential.
 
Simply saying "You lose. Period." Is a bad idea in my book. Unless you have a very good reason for it to happen due to plot shenanigans, and you have a high level of trust with your players, it wont go over well.


Talk to them, discuss how and why you want the big band end game boss to win this round. This may involve telling them elements of the plot that their characters aren't supposed to know yet, but they'll appreciate it better than a flat "lolnope, you lose".
 
The win/lose thing was mostly for pvp. Big Bad/NPC battles are generally up to whoever is in "power" there. If the Big Bad really IS that much stronger it might be obvious that he's going to win though again, this would be something to discuss between the participants. If they really DON'T have a chance, that can be disappointing for some people - but if they're willing to be reasonable and deal wit it, they can help you spin the encounter into something really jawesome! Really all of freeform is just trying to be on the same page as everyone else involved and everything flows from there.
 
In the idea of the big boss handing the PCs a beatdown, consider action movies. At the start, the heroes get whooped and the BBEG gets to gloat and posture, stating they are beneath his attention to Eden kill. So he leaves and the heroes go all training montage, plot and character development happens and later they take out the BBEG.


Captain Hesperus
 
Exactly where I was going with that. Fighting the enemy during the second act the Hero loses. He does not yet have what he needs to win.


Interesting. Thanks for the info. I know this has been a lot of questions and really appreciate you guys answering.
 
And Act 3 opens with the Hero going on an Epic Quest to find the Magical Maguffin and defeat the BBEG. Also travel montage with epic orchestral score.


Captain Hesperus
 
Journey of the Hero, yo.


I'm specifically planning a game based around it when some of my current ones end.
 
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