Other Equality - what is your opinion?

[FelinaTheDevil]

I was talking to a male friend of mine, when we got to the topic of equality, and I admit he has some good points. He said along the lines of equality is stupid, since men and women are different and can never be equal. Now, we are not talking about money here. That's a whole other thing - what our subject was, is equality in jobs, and physical work.


As he pointed out, men are stronger, and I have to agree. Some females may be stronger, but men are overall much stronger because of genetics (Testosterone and all that). Through his whole opinion, it pointed out that there really is no equality between a man and woman.


Now, I know some of you will disagree. But being a fellow female, and knowing that yes we are capable of many things, but men do excel in some things that we can't. And I must admit, there never will be equality between men and women in physical and certain jobs - not all, but a small percentage. Females though, do have better abilities at handling pain, yet have more pain receptors than men.


So yes, we are not equal, and it is kind of stupid to get equality rights (I am not talking about the money!) when we are not equals at all.


What's your opinion? And please, no flamers or dissing someone else's opinion. This is purely to see what others opinions are.

 

[CyborgMerlin]

Men and women are not equals.


We are built differently, this is not the same thing as one being superior to another. Equal rights are not part of that equation, as that examines the physical in minimal aspects. Equal rights, in theory, is about being treated no differently in social, economical, and political positions no matter your sex. As you can surmise none of those things are directly tied to the physical aspects of men and women. What we are talking about here is specifically the more strength demanding jobs that are most often done by men, for that I understand, though if a woman can prove that she is capable of performing it with the same proficiency as any man then there is no reason why she can't work it, the same as any job. However, there are still many jobs, primarily done by men that have no such physical demands such as in the fields of science and engineering and this is because of the disparity for preferences of jobs between men and women, which has more to do with cultural influences than practical application.


So yes, men and women are not physical equals, but there are many aspects of our lives that are unaffected by these traits that we should not treat each other differently for.


Also, testosterone is a steroidal hormone that men produce in abundance in comparison to women, which is why men gain muscle mass faster, that is not genetics.

 

[zanarkand]

it's actually a myth that men are physically stronger than women. Women are just very much discouraged from doing any kind of task that requires weightlifting and men aren't. Therefor, men tend to be stronger but with equal training, men and women are about the same. And any job, no matter how much lifting there is, should be open to a woman no matter what

 

[folclor]

Equality of opportunity should be a thing, yes.  However, equality of opportunity should also mean equality of requirement.  Yes, men and women are different.  Our brains think differently, our bodies work differently.

it's actually a myth that men are physically stronger than women. Women are just very much discouraged from doing any kind of task that requires weightlifting and men aren't. Therefor, men tend to be stronger but with equal training, men and women are about the same. And any job, no matter how much lifting there is, should be open to a woman no matter what

What is your source?

 

[Ganta]

I feel that is centered on genetics, than the aspect of generalization that all genders are indifferent of each other. In my opinion in terms of equality, I feel that gays should be out of the question. I feel that it should stay as it is, in a straight line. Not to offend people; not in a religion input, but just common sense and logic.


I honestly see that as more people get involved in these agendas of the homosexual routine that every other perspective that includes men or women ends up destroyed. Personally, it is depended, women can be as strong as men, But men can be also weak as a women. In history, where there is a will and strength, the odds against the rest can happen. But it depends on how well from both sides are willing to activate, whether physically or mentally. Psychologically, you can bend over someone's leg if you believe you can and you just control your body and make strength out of it. 


That's what I see, I am a female in real life so there you go. 

 

[norway]

I'm not really sure what aspect of equality the question is referring to, I'm getting the vibe you're just talking about physically, not socially. Regardless, I don't believe in a collective being generally accredited - I'm an individualist. I also don't really believe in equality - at least the method of pursuit today, it seems that being 'equal' now means getting to be automatically leveled with any kind of higher class, better faring opposition, etc. even if you can't handle or didn't earn what you demand. I think it should be effort based. So if a woman has the physical prowess and stamina to keep up with a job that's typically associated with men, that's great, but it should be something she can actually handle, not a role filled because there's a lack of one gender; I don't know of a job that is literally unavailable to women, at least here in America (not to say there aren't any, but I know if I had the credentials for any area I'm interested in, I'd be hired. I could bring up the 2:1 'cause companies are more desperate to hire women to look good, too). Having a lack of balance gender wise, at least in this era, isn't necessarily a bad thing either, it just goes to show a general preference that has a lot of exceptions and way too many people analyzing it. If you want the job, go get it. If you didn't, before assuming it's some sort of conspiracy against your gender, consider how you did, how someone else could have done it better, and what you could to do next time to improve the skills you probably lacked. 


And this whole thing about 'women aren't encouraged enough' just irks me - do you want to be 'independent' and free of the alleged 'patriarchy' or encouraged but claim you never needed any kind of support? Make up your mind. Those that spew the word equality, today, need to consider the transformation from Dependency > Independence > Interdependence, accepting support where it's needed, yet also acting independently to ensure self sufficiency. No one is holding women back. Though I do believe in the stereotype of women being more emotional, and men being more logical - it's not an accusation, but typically rings true to everyone, and that could be a small reason as to why one gender is more or less efficient in a particular career field. 


Just my thoughts. 

 

[adrian_]

Equal Rights are good.


Feminism is bad.

 

[thoughtless]

Really I think the whole physical strength aspect is kinda stupid. I know many people that I'm stronger than, and I know many people that are stronger than me. There are many other things that people are not equal in, and so I don't think physical strength is something that we should be talking about. It comes down to one thing; If the job demands that you have a certain amount of strength because of heavy liifting, then you should meet that requirement, no matter if you're male/female/trans/ect.


I don't think that the problem is that woman aren't encouraged to go after being muscular, but the problem is that a lot of them are discouraged. There are many people who don't find muscular woman attractive, and while this wouldn't be a problem if they personally didn't like that body type, enforcing that onto others and telling young women that muscles on women aren't attractive and they shouldn't strive after that is a problem.


What should be done is that no matter what someone wants to do with their life, if it's something that the person is interested in we should encourage them to go for it. We shouldn't set presets on what men and women should and shouldn't do and let them decide for themselves. Though understand that this is solely within reason, I'm not saying that we should encourage someone to do something that could potentially detrimental to them if that person is really interested in doing it.


 


Sometimes treating everybody the same doesn't necessarily solve the problem as long as there are systems in place that will always be detrimental to one group of people while it doesn't affect the others or when it may actually help one group of people and hurt the other. There's a huge difference between equality and equity.


The main problem with just flat out calling feminism bad is that you're not realizing the fact that one feminist may have very different beliefs from the other. Just like one republican may have very different beliefs than another despite both of them calling themselves republicans, etcetera, etcetera.


 


If you want to flat out dismiss the whole movement because you see them all of them as man-hating feminazis who don't truly want equal rights, then that's your prerogative, but it's a very inaccurate statement to be making.

 

[yuckeroni]

Equal Rights are good.


Feminism is bad.

feminism IS about equal rights for all women. there's nothing absolutely wrong about it at all, men and TERFS and SWERFS are ruining it's name.

 

[norway]

feminism IS about equal rights for all women. there's nothing absolutely wrong about it at all, men and TERFS and SWERFS are ruining it's name.

Don't forget Jezebel and fem frequency, so you aren't just blaming men. That'd be unequal. 

 

[yuckeroni]

Don't forget Jezebel and fem frequency, so you aren't just blaming men. That'd be unequal. 

honestly? i'm also blaming men. (not all men, of course.) i'm so tired of hearing how women shouldn't treat them like we've been treated for years, for centuries. :\

 

[Alexandra]

Don't forget Jezebel and fem frequency, so you aren't just blaming men. That'd be unequal. 

The TERF and SWERF inclusion already covers that.

 

[The Gunrunner]

honestly? i'm also blaming men. (not all men, of course.) i'm so tired of hearing how women shouldn't treat them like we've been treated for years, for centuries. :\

Then you shouldn't claim to be for equality.

 

[yuckeroni]

Then you shouldn't claim to be for equal rights.

right, let me fix that.


i'm up for women's rights

 

[/b/ board]

America dosen't (really)  needs feminism.


Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Nigeria need feminism.


Baam

 

[JustDrew344]

Femininity and masculinity both have their main parts, which contrast themselves by nature. 


In sociology we look at gender roles, who plays what part in society.


I think that we have come to an advancement thanks to technology improvements, which men are able to do what women do ( like the trans movement) and women now being able to enrol as infantry in the marines.  


I'll admit my girlfriend can kick my ass in a spar, she is stronger than me despite the fact I lift and she's tiny, which I think is cool like she's from a cartoon or something.


I like to see weird stuff that people can do, like chicks getting muscles or dudes driving mini vans being soccer moms


So in regards to equality my opinion goes everywhere. Do what you do and who cares if people might think it's weird?

 

[norway]

honestly? i'm also blaming men. (not all men, of course.) i'm so tired of hearing how women shouldn't treat them like we've been treated for years, for centuries. :\

I agree that there are minorities that have been mistreated by other minorities, or majorities. But treating the wrong doers the way they treated you, makes you no better than them. Feminism - or any cause - should not be fighting for vengeance. Equality is not vengeance, women having rights is not vengeance, there should not be a mentality to 'get back' at the people that allegedly did you wrong. What you do is rise above, as individuals, not cowards hiding behind a category and ostracizing other majorities to make yourself appear dominant. Dominance, and equality, are not the same thing. I have religious views about why this is a man's world, God giving Eve Adam's kidney, and so on, but ignoring that aspect and looking sorely at motives, if you act on vengeance, you are as wrong as the party that opposed you. 


Women today aren't nearly as oppressed as they were at a different time (not that all women really believed they were being discriminated, some went with tradition) I think us, as women, should be appreciative of how far we've come, stop for a minute and appreciate the fact that we can sit here, with each other and with men, and discussing our opposing values and also find the beauty in individuality and common ground. This is assuming you live in America. Instead of pressing forward abrasively, think of how far you've come, all that you have, maybe try and focus on bringing middle eastern and asian countries up to par with how free women are here (not that I'm saying all other countries have a wrong way of living, some of it is just cultural and we should mind our own business) because we really do have it made in comparison to nearly every other country out there. And sometimes, you (not you, personally, but the collective) bitch so much you lose the privilege for everyone, and that'd just be a shame. 


All I'm saying is appreciate where we're at, and be grateful we have a country that enables what it does. There's more to be done in all aspects, but taking down another majority (like men, specifically white men) is not the way to do it. 'They' are not MEN, they are human beings that should not be discriminated, either. We are a human race first, and need to unify and look out for each other against other humans meaning to do harm. We should be colorblind and accepting (aside from science and common sense), division is a route to war and extinction. 

 

[yuckeroni]

I agree that there are minorities that have been mistreated by other minorities, or majorities. But treating the wrong doers the way they treated you, makes you no better than them. Feminism - or any cause - should not be fighting for vengeance. Equality is not vengeance, women having rights is not vengeance, there should not be a mentality to 'get back' at the people that allegedly did you wrong. What you do is rise above, as individuals, not cowards hiding behind a category and ostracizing other majorities to make yourself appear dominant. Dominance, and equality, are not the same thing. I have religious views about why this is a man's world, God giving Eve Adam's kidney, and so on, but ignoring that aspect and looking sorely at motives, if you act on vengeance, you are as wrong as the party that opposed you. 


Women today aren't nearly as oppressed as they were at a different time (not that all women really believed they were being discriminated, some went with tradition) I think us, as women, should be appreciative of how far we've come, stop for a minute and appreciate the fact that we can sit here, with each other and with men, and discussing our opposing values and also find the beauty in individuality and common ground. This is assuming you live in America. Instead of pressing forward abrasively, think of how far you've come, all that you have, maybe try and focus on bringing middle eastern and asian countries up to par with how free women are here (not that I'm saying all other countries have a wrong way of living, some of it is just cultural and we should mind our own business) because we really do have it made in comparison to nearly every other country out there. And sometimes, you (not you, personally, but the collective) bitch so much you lose the privilege for everyone, and that'd just be a shame. 


All I'm saying is appreciate where we're at, and be grateful we have a country that enables what it does. There's more to be done in all aspects, but taking down another majority (like men, specifically white men) is not the way to do it. 'They' are not MEN, they are human beings that should not be discriminated, either. We are a human race first, and need to unify and look out for each other against other humans meaning to do harm. We should be colorblind and accepting (aside from science and common sense), division is a route to war and extinction. 

i couldnt get through this without laughing. this reminds me of all the "All Lives Matter" bullshit. fuck that.


i don't care about appreciating what i've got, when really women deserve JUST AS MUCH as men. i shouldn't have to do tht. i should be able to see that all genders are the same. but it's not.


i'm not going to argue anymore, i was never any good at it. but whatever. you have your opinion, i have mine. 

 

[The Gunrunner]

i couldnt get through this without laughing. this reminds me of all the "All Lives Matter" bullshit. fuck that.


i don't care about appreciating what i've got, when really women deserve JUST AS MUCH as men. i shouldn't have to do tht. i should be able to see that all genders are the same. but it's not.


i'm not going to argue anymore, i was never any good at it. but whatever. you have your opinion, i have mine. 

"Your opinion sucks, lol. Excuse me while I make a bunch of unproven claims.


I'm not going to argue. You have your opinion and I have mine (but mine's the better one.)


Oh, did I say something sexist? I'm sorry, but I only care about women's rights."


Did you at any point consider that you might be one of the people giving feminism a bad name?

 

[yuckeroni]

"Your opinion sucks, lol. Excuse me while I make a bunch of unproven claims.


I'm not going to argue. You have your opinion and I have mine (but mine's the better one.)


Oh, did I say something sexist? I'm sorry, but I only care about women's rights."


Did you at any point consider that you might be one of the people giving feminism a bad name?

i never said that their opinion sucks. nor did i make any unproven claims. and i NEVER said that my opinion is better. while i really care about women's rights, i'm not gonna shut down ACTUAL men's rights activists. people who actually have stuff to FIGHT for.


i dont appreciate that you're trying to put words in my mouth. if i meant that, i would have said it.

 

[The Gunrunner]

BB-code screwed the original.

Quote



i never said that their opinion sucks. nor did i make any unproven claims. and i NEVER said that my opinion is better. while i really care about women's rights, i'm not gonna shut down ACTUAL men's rights activists. people who actually have stuff to FIGHT for.

 

i dont appreciate that you're trying to put words in my mouth. if i meant that, i would have said it

You said " i couldnt get through this without laughing. this reminds me of all the "All Lives Matter" bullshit. fuck that"


You said "right, let me fix that. i'm up for women's rights" in response to "Then you shouldn't claim to be for equal rights."


You said " i don't care about appreciating what i've got, when really women deserve JUST AS MUCH as men. i shouldn't have to do tht. i should be able to see that all genders are the same. but it's not" with no examples or arguments.


The last was in a post that ended with "I'm not going to argue anymore."


Whether or not you meant it, you said it.

 

[Alexandra]

i never said that their opinion sucks. nor did i make any unproven claims. and i NEVER said that my opinion is better. while i really care about women's rights, i'm not gonna shut down ACTUAL men's rights activists. people who actually have stuff to FIGHT for.


i dont appreciate that you're trying to put words in my mouth. if i meant that, i would have said it.

I wouldn't bother with the trolls, hon.

 

[yuckeroni]

I wouldn't bother with the trolls, hon.

right. this is why i never try to argue, but i just get so heated about this stuff

 

[The Gunrunner]

right. this is why i never try to argue, but i just get so heated about this stuff

You can live in an echo-chamber for as long as you want, but it won't make the facts any less true... Nor will it make you better at refuting falsities.

 

[Alexandra]

right. this is why i never try to argue, but i just get so heated about this stuff

Oh no, arguing is very useful, but only if everyone engages properly. I wouldn't worry too much about it.