Other Controversional Debate Thread

[MarinesThePsychoticReaper]

Welcome to a Controversial debate Thread were the community discusses various topics.
Some would ask "But Marines why is there a need for a thread like this?".

Well, each community wheater it is Gaming, roleplay, anime or whatever else based. Holds opinions that some people would want to discuss with the community they are a part of.
I'm sure this, like other communities, have wonderful minds that see somethings differently. So that's why I went out of my way to create this thread.

Now before I begin I'd like to give a note to everyone who participates in the discussion.
This is a Neutral thread, and so whether your views are different from someone other or not. Nobody is allowed to insult another person. We are allowed to challenge each other's views on specific topics but we are not allowed to insult one another.

So if you don't like people that have different views than you, do NOT engage in the debate. This is completely optional so nobody asks you to participate however if you do participate keep in mind that this is a neutral ground. So by entering the debate, you are fully aware that some people will try to challenge your views. If you don't want that to happen, don't participate in the debate.


Now having this out of the way let's begin.

Today's topic is Nationalism.
What do you think of it? Is it good in your opinion? Is it bad?
(Keep in mind to make good points regarding the topics.)

 

[Hige]

This probably needs to be moved to Personal Discussion.

I think Nationalism can lead to a lot of negative things (eg., fascism) so I am naturally wary of it. There's no shame in loving your country, but you shouldn't blindly worship it, which, nationalism can [keyword: can] lead to.

 

[MarinesThePsychoticReaper]

This probably needs to be moved to Personal Discussion.

I think Nationalism can lead to a lot of negative things (eg., fascism) so I am naturally wary of it. There's no shame in loving your country, but you shouldn't blindly worship it, which, nationalism can [keyword: can] lead to.

In response to the first one. Yeah i didn't know what to settle down for so i went for general discussion.

As for second. For the most part i agree with you. That Nationalism can lead to a lot of negative things but sometimes it's what brings people together you know? People passing the culture from generation to generation and trying to keep the old values around.
I don't see a problem with Ethnic nationalists that are preserving culture, because there can be a group of foreigners that want to get familiar with the culture and become a part of society. It's a diffrent case when Ethnic nationalists want to preserve the race of their nation. Sure that's also important but that leaves a lot of space for radical views to take effect. (Aka Facism/ something diffrent)

So we always need to establish what is the group are we talking about. Since nationalism isn't restricted to just one type.

 

[Lenny2000]

In response to the first one. Yeah i didn't know what to settle down for so i went for general discussion.

As for second. For the most part i agree with you. That Nationalism can lead to a lot of negative things but sometimes it's what brings people together you know? People passing the culture from generation to generation and trying to keep the old values around.
I don't see a problem with Ethnic nationalists that are preserving culture, because there can be a group of foreigners that want to get familiar with the culture and become a part of society. It's a diffrent case when Ethnic nationalists want to preserve the race of their nation. Sure that's also important but that leaves a lot of space for radical views to take effect. (Aka Facism/ something diffrent)

So we always need to establish what is the group are we talking about. Since nationalism isn't restricted to just one type.

I have to say that nationalism is not good for everyone but instead something that would replace religion for their land as purpose for in why to celebrate things such as wars and Fourth of July. Nationalism would provide many issues when it comes to multiple ethnic groups being nationalistic as compared to the home country nationalists creating further tension. I am not solid on this example but you can understand when I’m trying to say an good example would be the border between Mexico and America. To those illegal or legal immigrants that come from Mexico they not only bring nationalism with them but different moral values as a lead to crime in Arizona when the governor of that state told the president to back off of Arizona when he wanted the state to have open borders to Mexico

 

[MarinesThePsychoticReaper]

I have to say that nationalism is not good for everyone but instead something that would replace religion for their land as the purpose for in why to celebrate things such as wars and Fourth of July. Nationalism would provide many issues when it comes to multiple ethnic groups being nationalistic as compared to the home country nationalists creating further tension. I am not solid in this example but you can understand when I’m trying to say a good example would be the border between Mexico and America. To those illegal or legal immigrants that come from Mexico they not only bring nationalism with them but different moral values as a lead to crime in Arizona when the governor of that state told the president to back off of Arizona when he wanted the state to have open borders to Mexico

But now we are going down a path that applies to someone outside your country coming into it. I'm talking more about the core citizens of a nation. Should they go for nationalism? or are there better alternatives?

Because some nations are able to assimilate into each other better than the other. Sure when they come to a different country they will have those cultural differences but that doesn't say that they can't learn the culture, and want to become a part of it whitelist becoming a part of society.

 

[Black Sun]

There are some underlying issues that you have to address before you ask "is nationalism good or bad?" One of those issues is the current, severely negative, Western foundation myth that rests in World War 2. That is, the foundation is build on evil rather than good. The (ultimate) evil being National Socialism. Nationalism can because of that never be spoken of in positive light without the "it can lead to many bad things". Those 'bad things' have been set and determined by those who won the war, i.e., relative to their ideological views. The same goes for fascism. Most people have no clue what it is or stands for. They only know it's "bad" because of the foundation myth.

 

[Fearless Sissy]

I have to say that nationalism is not good for everyone but instead something that would replace religion for their land as purpose for in why to celebrate things such as wars and Fourth of July.

My professor recently touched upon this when we had a class about communities and imagined communities, and I have to say I agree with him. Nationalism is a blind belief that no matter what your country does, it's good, similar to religious fanaticism. It creates incredibly strong bonds in a nation's people. I've really only ever seen nationalism lead to 'us vs them' scenarios. So no, I'm not a fan. I think it's one of the most destructive belief systems in the world.

But now we are going down a path that applies to someone outside your country coming into it. I'm talking more about the core citizens of a nation. Should they go for nationalism? or are there better alternatives?

Patriotism, on the other hand, is a wonderful thing which I wholeheartedly support, and a much better alternative to a shared feeling of identity than nationalism in my opinion. Basically, anyone is allowed to be proud of their country, just not to an extent where they're blindly uncritical of the practices that are - well, practiced? I can't think of a better word at the moment. Like, I love being Danish, I really like living here, I'll talk your ear off any day about my beautiful language or Legos, but I'm also beyond ashamed of the current """"""integration"""""" minister's way of dealing with refugees and anyone who doesn't have Danish ancestors, living in Denmark, for the past 80 generations.

 

[MarinesThePsychoticReaper]

There are some underlying issues that you have to address before you ask "is nationalism good or bad?" One of those issues is the current, severely negative, Western foundation myth that rests in World War 2. That is, the foundation is build on evil rather than good. The (ultimate) evil being National Socialism. Nationalism can because of that never be spoken of in positive light without the "it can lead to many bad things". Those 'bad things' have been set and determined by those who won the war, i.e., relative to their ideological views. The same goes for fascism. Most people have no clue what it is or stand for. They only know it's "bad" because of the foundation myth.

Well In my question I left a lot of open space to tell about influences that are in the particular view of the commentator's perception. Some people can think that Nationalism is bad because of the big Mistake of WW2. Others can take it from experience that they like to live in a patriotic society that tries to preserve its national identity. (Though not Everyone does it the good way looking at it realistically. Because there always will be people with radical views on this planet. There is nothing we can do about them, other than minimalizing the damage they can do.)