Coding Plagiarism

[Nano]

Alright, so this has been something that's been bugging me, since I started fiddling around with html/css and making codes for my character sheets and other things. Back when we had bbcode, it was stated that admins/mods wouldn't take action on stolen codes since bbcode was limited and it wasn't too uncommon that someone would have a code that looked the same as someone else's. However, html allows us to do much more than just what bbcode allowed us to do, so we're able to be much more creative with our designs. I'm more referring to the codes that use more than just a background and font styling since those can still have a coincidential look-alike, but would we now be able to report code theft? It felt pretty bad when someone took my bbcode without my permission, and I'd feel even worse if someone decided to just go and steal an html/css code that I came up with, since these take much longer to make than the old bbcode made designs. =[


Edit: I'm not referring to people taking and dissecting code (although it would still be nice if they asked) just to figure out how something was done. Well, as long as it's only for learning and they aren't copy/pasting parts of the code. You can't really tell that they dissected your code, anyway, unless they copy and paste...

 

[Dugym]

I agree, but there's still a possibility that the coding can be very similar - maybe even the same - and still could've been 100% unintentional.


Hmm...


Also, the prefix would be 'Suggestion'.

 

[Nano]

I agree, but there's still a possibility that the coding can be very similar - maybe even the same - and still could've been 100% unintentional.


Hmm...

When you get into the more complex designs, it's pretty hard to make a sound argument that it's just a pure coincidence. Besides, in html/css, there are often multiple ways of getting the same result, and people all think different and have different preferences, so if I happen to look into the code and all of the same methods and sequences are used, I'm pretty sure that means they stole my code.


Edit: Technically, this isn't a "suggestion," since I'm asking a question on whether or not something exists.

 

[Dugym]

When you get into the more complex designs, it's pretty hard to make a sound argument that it's just a pure coincidence. Besides, in html/css, there are often multiple ways of getting the same result, and people all think different and have different preferences, so if I happen to look into the code and all of the same methods and sequences are used, I'm pretty sure that means they stole my code.

Well yeah, but it's not impossible. It's just a very low chance. But still, rules should accommodate extremes.

 

[A Murder Of Corviknight]

Well yeah, but it's not impossible. It's just a very low chance. But still, rules should accommodate extremes.

I think what Nano means is...think of it like an essay. Two people can think of the same topic, theme, motifs and literary devices to stick in their essay. They might think of similar words but they'll tend put it in different order because we all organize our thoughts differently. (I mean, how else do those anti-plagiarism engines like turnitin work? There are hundreds of students working on the assignment yet if you work on the essay by yourself, you usually don't get higher than 30% similarity.) But it's a whole 'nother story if you just copy and paste the words and blatantly call it yours. Because it's obvious that you just slapped someone else's words and called it yours.


And it's just as easy to tell the difference between plagiarism and a piece of work that was inspired by something. I've been in two computer courses and in both, my professor told their classes that it's impossible for most codes after a certain point of complexity to be identical. There's a reason why some coders are better than others even though they're using the same language. It's the same reason way some speech-makers are better than others. The language is the same, the results might be similar, but the way they weave it all together is different.


Html/css is different from bbcode in that it can use different..."combinations" to get similar results. Nano already said that she doesn't mind if people use her stuff as reference to learn (though asking is always nice, she won't bite). Asking her about her special techniques are fine and dandy. She'll answer them because she's nice like that. But it's pretty rude to copy and paste someone's blood and tears and call it yours. That's the only thing she had a problem with. Not the chance that something looked similar to hers. But that fact that there's a possibility that someone can easily take her work and call it their own without any repercussions. That's what scares her.


Edit: Ah read the thread too fast and I missed your last bit. Yeah, (clarifying in case it was unclear in my post because I wrote a bloody essay lmao) it's a good idea to take measures against the extreme.

 

[Dugym]

I think what Nano means is...think of it like an essay. Two people can think of the same topic, theme, motifs and literary devices to stick in their essay. They might think of similar words but they'll tend put it in different order because we all organize our thoughts differently. (I mean, how else do those anti-plagiarism engines like turnitin work? There are hundreds of students working on the assignment yet if you work on the essay by yourself, you usually don't get higher than 30% similarity.) But it's a whole 'nother story if you just copy and paste the words and blatantly call it yours. Because it's obvious that you just slapped someone else's words and called it yours.


And it's just as easy to tell the difference between plagiarism and a piece of work that was inspired by something. I've been in two computer courses and in both, my professor told their classes that it's impossible for most codes after a certain point of complexity to be identical. There's a reason why some coders are better than others even though they're using the same language. It's the same reason way some speech-makers are better than others. The language is the same, the results might be similar, but the way they weave it all together is different.


Html/css is different from bbcode in that it can use different..."combinations" to get similar results. Nano already said that she doesn't mind if people use her stuff as reference to learn (though asking is always nice, she won't bite). Asking her about her special techniques are fine and dandy. She'll answer them because she's nice like that. But it's pretty rude to copy and paste someone's blood and tears and call it yours. That's the only thing she had a problem with. Not the chance that something looked similar to hers. But that fact that there's a possibility that someone can easily take her work and call it their own without any repercussions. That's what scares her.

It's not impossible. We aren't robots; we're biological beings. However small a chance there is for the work to be identical/almost identical, the chance is still there. I'm not saying that coding plagiarism shouldn't be against the rules. I am simply saying the rule should be able to identify these extreme cases and treat them fairly.

 

[A Murder Of Corviknight]

It's not impossible. We aren't robots; we're biological beings. However small a chance there is for the work to be identical/almost identical, the chance is still there. I'm not saying that coding plagiarism shouldn't be against the rules. I am simply saying the rule should be able to identify these extreme cases and treat them fairly.

(I don't believe I said we're robots. >v>;;; It's actually more likely for a robot to repeat a sequence because it's programming. It'll only do what it's been programmed to do.)


>.> Also, I don't think we're seeing the same picture. Something simple as text boxes with a pretty colored border is easy to be identical code wise because the code wouldn't be very long in the first place. But code that has layers and layers of code is different because there are often a lot of variables and CALCULATIONS may the lord bless all of you hardcore coders who know what I'm talking about involved. eve;;; That's what I meant by "after a certain point of complexity". That would be the example of an extreme case...and I agree with you. There should be measures against cases like those.


BUT there shouldn't be cases where people are whining about placing a blue text box in one specific corner or very simple/common tabs or a regular scrollbar. e.e you kidding me??? That's like saying drawing a stick figure is plagiarism

 

[The Mechanist]

Can't be plagiarism if it isn't something you legally own, it's mainly just theft

 

[Pyosimros]

OOOHHHH SHEEETTT I'VE BEEN DISCOVERED BURN EVERYTHING TO THE GROUND!!!!


But seriously though, it sucks that that has to happen to you. I mean, putting myself into your shoes, it must suck to see someone rip your stuff. 75% of the time I let people re-use my stuff with credit (or none at all if they're good friends) but if I were to randomly click on a thread seeing a mere palette-swap of what was my code I would probably be beyond pissed. That being said! I hope you can sort this out with the unnamed persons, and I hope measures would be placed to keep people from doing it again!


[SIZE= 12px]Oh yah, with the argument of copied work, the chances of that happening are nigh impossible. True, it is possible, though as Birb said the chances of that are incredibly low - in HTML/CSS it is even more so. Individuals who have decided to learn and use HTML/CSS likely only fill 25%-50% of the people here, eliminating an obvious large majority right off the bat. The number only decreases from there as we then apply Nano's skill level and the amount of knowledge needed to learn what she does. If we were to apply Nano's knowledge (which she applies to her code), then the number of users able to do such things can range to 10% at best to even <1%. That being said, we then account Nano's artistic style and the active userbase here...yes, there is a chance it could happen by pure accident, but the chances are so slim that [INSERT NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE STATISTIC] is more likely to happen.[/SIZE]


Your argument will be valid if Nano merely slapped a border, a header, and a bg and calls it a day. The only problem, is that she doesn't.

 

[AkuTheWolfOkami]

Are you really upset people are using your html/css on a roleplaying site? Are you some commercial entity that well being depends on your code? 

 

[Pyosimros]

I'm sorry if I'm riling up conflict by the way, just tell me to fuck off and I'll fuck off @Nano. >.>

Are you really upset people are using your html/css on a roleplaying site? Are you some commercial entity that well being depends on your code? 

Ok, think of this: you spend over 5+ hours working on a code, and then you post it to show everyone else. Next day, you see the EXACT same thing, but with a different image and different colors. You would be pissed too if you see your hard work blatantly ripped off - even the kindest person in the world would.

 

[Meredith]

I don't believe coding would be put under our plagiarism rules, as though there's multiple ways to do the same thing in HTML, CSS, and other coding formats, there's only so many possible routes. If you believe your work has been used unfairly, you can always report it either way.

 

[Nano]

Are you really upset people are using your html/css on a roleplaying site? Are you some commercial entity that well being depends on your code? 

I don't know how it happened, but it seems that you're mistaking me for having some sort of superiority complex just because I happen to appreciate my own hard work? As I've said before, I have no issues with people asking me how I got a certain result or asking for my code so that they can dissect and learn from it (even though I still have much to learn myself). Heck, I've even lent some codes to some people I know who've ASKED me. As Pyo said, my issue is that that's my blood, sweat, and tears that someone is just blatantly taking and claiming as their own. I'm not a master coder, so it takes a lot of work and effort for me to get what I do done. There's even one code that I managed to mess up so badly at first that it took me a whole 7 hours just to fix and complete the whole damn thing. I'm sure as hell I'd be pissed if I saw pretty much this exact thing being used by someone else with them claiming it as their own.

Can't be plagiarism if it isn't something you legally own, it's mainly just theft

Well...according to the dictionary, plagiarism is defined as, "the practice of taking someone else's work or ideas and passing them off as one's own" and "theft" is even listed as a synonym.


Basically, it's the same thing.


[COLOR= rgb(34, 34, 34)]. __ .[/COLOR]

I don't believe coding would be put under our plagiarism rules, as though there's multiple ways to do the same thing in HTML, CSS, and other coding formats, there's only so many possible routes. If you believe your work has been used unfairly, you can always report it either way.

Ah, alright and ty for answering~ ^ ^

 

[A Murder Of Corviknight]

Are you really upset people are using your html/css on a roleplaying site? Are you some commercial entity that well being depends on your code? 

I'm sorry if I'm riling up conflict by the way, just tell me to fuck off and I'll fuck off @Nano. >.>


Ok, think of this: you spend over 5+ hours working on a code, and then you post it to show everyone else. Next day, you see the EXACT same thing, but with a different image and different colors. You would be pissed too if you see your hard work blatantly ripped off - even the kindest person in the world would.

And if you still can't see it:


You spent 5+ hours on this one homework/project. One little snot decides that they want to be lazy and didn't want to do the same blood, sweat and tears that you've went though and just steals your homework/project and hands it to your professor like it's theirs. On a scale of 1 to 10 just how PISSED would you be?


Personally I would be on the satan level of pissed. :^) You bet I would happily set them on fire with a torch while giggling vengefully.


Note: Nano spends more than a mere 5 hours on one project. So the situation is a hella worse than depicted here.

 

[AkuTheWolfOkami]

I'm sorry if I'm riling up conflict by the way, just tell me to fuck off and I'll fuck off @Nano. >.>


Ok, think of this: you spend over 5+ hours working on a code, and then you post it to show everyone else. Next day, you see the EXACT same thing, but with a different image and different colors. You would be pissed too if you see your hard work blatantly ripped off - even the kindest person in the world would.

Presumptuous. Web Design, UI/UX design, Usability design is my career (was my entire career after my discharge until I opted for a PhD) . I wouldn't care if someone wasn't profiting off of my work. If I didn't want someone to use my code, I wouldn't post it on a forum that's publicly accessible. 

I don't know how it happened, but it seems that you're mistaking me for having some sort of superiority complex just because I happen to appreciate my own hard work? As I've said before, I have no issues with people asking me how I got a certain result or asking for my code so that they can dissect and learn from it (even though I still have much to learn myself). Heck, I've even lent some codes to some people I know who've ASKED me. As Pyo said, my issue is that that's my blood, sweat, and tears that someone is just blatantly taking and claiming as their own. I'm not a master coder, so it takes a lot of work and effort for me to get what I do done. There's even one code that I managed to mess up so badly at first that it took me a whole 7 hours just to fix and complete the whole damn thing. I'm sure as hell I'd be pissed if I saw pretty much this exact thing being used by someone else with them claiming it as their own.

Don't put words in my mouth, mate. I'm not mistaking you for anything. It just baffles me that you put something out that is publicly accessible, that you aren't profiting off, and want to destroy the world that someone used it. I don't know man. Just seems odd. Your HTML/CSS code is not special. I'm really glad you enjoy doing it, but instead of being upset at others, be flattered that your work is good enough to be copied. I have ACTUAL ENTIRE WEBPAGES THAT WERE STOLEN. No skin off my bone. My job title as UI/UX Lead is why I got paid more than a web designer, though I did relatively a shit ton less work. Anyone can do the markup, not many people (relatively) are experts in User Experience. IDK. 

 

[AkuTheWolfOkami]

Also, you say as it gets more complex blah blah. 


Nah. Unless you're out here using an external library, jquery, mootools, ajax....it's pretty much going to look the same whether someone stole it or not. Even with whole websites. The main difference is what you call your div, spans, classes, ids....I could look at something, recreate it without even looking at the code, and you'd probably still think I stole it. 


Edit: Don't worry about responding to me, I'm not going to read it. Said my two cents, you're entitled to feel how you feel. Even if i don't agree with it. 

 

[Nano]

So, I'm sure no more posts are likely to spring up here, but just in case there are...


Please be mindful of the fact that this thread was posted not for the purpose of starting an argument regarding coding, but rather for the purpose of receiving a "yes or no" sort of answer from a mod/admin (and this has been answered atm?).

 

[Bacon is fluffy]

The premise of this thread is absurd. It's like you're trying to find a reason to be upset.  

 

[Meredith]

Please be civil to one another, folks. The question has been answered and there's no reason for anyone to get riled up~

 

[The Mechanist]

I think it's time to lock up this thread

 

[Dugym]

I think it's time to lock up this thread

Nah. It's best to avoid locking threads unless the participants start breaking the rules.

 

[Kaerri]

Whether you think plagiarism is worth getting upset over or not, it is against the RpN rules and we have removed posts for it in the past. Granted, those involved plagiarism of content, not coding. 


However, if you feel you have put sufficient effort into a piece of coding to justify calling it plagiarism when someone else uses it without permission, you are welcome to report it, just as with a case of content plagiarism. Staff will discuss it and take action based on the result of that discussion, as we do for every report.


If you have further questions/comments related to this point, go ahead. Debates about the validity of feelings regarding plagiarism do not belong here.