Silence In Daylight
One Thousand Club
No; only the better of the two.
[2E] Where is two-weapon fighting?
- Thread starter Persell
- Start date
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Guest
Guest
In short for Two Weapon fighting (barring the special rules of Short Daiklaives)-->
1) The off hand has a -1 die penalty to attack, barring the ambidexterity merit.
2) You can attack with each weapon up to it's rate. However, each attack incurs a -1 DV, so going all out with two weapons will most likely leave you  defenseless, sans Charms.
3) You use the best speed of the two weapons, not combined.
4) You use the highest defense of the two weapons, not combined.
5) If you're not spiffy and glowing, you're best off with the weapon/shield or 2 handed weapon method.
1) The off hand has a -1 die penalty to attack, barring the ambidexterity merit.
2) You can attack with each weapon up to it's rate. However, each attack incurs a -1 DV, so going all out with two weapons will most likely leave you  defenseless, sans Charms.
3) You use the best speed of the two weapons, not combined.
4) You use the highest defense of the two weapons, not combined.
5) If you're not spiffy and glowing, you're best off with the weapon/shield or 2 handed weapon method.
BinaryMoses
New Member
Jumping into this a little late in the game, but that last post made me have to ask-what's the benefit in 1st Ed for two weapon fighting, if any?
Silence In Daylight
One Thousand Club
Higher speed of the two, as well as the extra rate.
Greenstalker
Senior Member
Easy attack with sword, defend with knife. It is how it was used in real world history anyway, especially at Renaissance.randerson said:
Ledaal Kajiri
Two Thousand Club
Sword and dirk aren't nearly so simple as 'attack with sword, defend with dirk'. Far from it. The extra reach of the sword often makes it a better defensive weapon. At the same time, if you can get in close, the shorter blade is at an advantage offensively. Both blades are used offensively, and defensively. An off hand main gauche or dagger or knife is far from just a parrying aid. If it was just that, a gauntlet would often be better...as not only can you bat aside or block but also CATCH a weapon in your hand, hold it, and the like. Despite various hilt designs, that's not nearly so easy with most daggers as the natural motion of your own hand.
Which reminds me. I really need to make the sword and empty hand or sword and gauntleted hand type sometime. It's just a little annoying picking specialties there.
Which reminds me. I really need to make the sword and empty hand or sword and gauntleted hand type sometime. It's just a little annoying picking specialties there.
Smeggedoff
Elder Member
Ahh, D&D's a good break occasionally. Especially if you like math and repetetive combat.
Greenstalker
Senior Member
I was telling it from mechanics view (considering how sword has better offence stats and knife has better defense) and just giving one example. I know that there are many sword/knife combinations that actually bluff with sword and attack with knife (occasionally poisoned knife) but they work on same opponent once (which is enough in real world) and it may not optimal in Exalted.
terrormortus
New Member
Benefit of Dual Weapon Fighting.
1. Mix and match weapons, gives you the option of having a high offense sword without having to sacrifice defense.
2. Two weapons means losing one isn't so bad when your opponent disarms you.
3. Style. Come on folks, sometimes you just want a character to look good. There's walking onto the battlefield and then there's walking onto the battle field with the sun high in the sky glittering off the edges of your two Orichalcum Grand Daiklaves as you stare at the undead horde amassed before you, and smile.
Honestly there aren't any real mechanical benefits to dual wielding that are worth the effort. To me it's always been more of a style thing.
1. Mix and match weapons, gives you the option of having a high offense sword without having to sacrifice defense.
2. Two weapons means losing one isn't so bad when your opponent disarms you.
3. Style. Come on folks, sometimes you just want a character to look good. There's walking onto the battlefield and then there's walking onto the battle field with the sun high in the sky glittering off the edges of your two Orichalcum Grand Daiklaves as you stare at the undead horde amassed before you, and smile.
Honestly there aren't any real mechanical benefits to dual wielding that are worth the effort. To me it's always been more of a style thing.
Aasharu
Member
Any advice on duel wielding a daiklave and flame piece, 40K style?
terrormortus
New Member
I don't get the references so the only thing I can think of is what pirates would do, a belt of flame pieces and a cutlass. Attack all the guys around you pulling out a flame piece to occasionally roast some poor fool out of sword reach, throwing down the spent pieces to be retrieved and reloaded later. Definitely gives you advantage of both close and ranged versatility.
Kyeudo
One Thousand Club
Of course, that style requires you to flurry alot of Miscellaneous actions to draw weapons, something that I've never really liked.
terrormortus
New Member
Scroll of Heroes brought back the Quick Draw merit, so four bonus points at character creation takes care of that.
Kyeudo
One Thousand Club
Yeah, but the problem is that the constant need to draw weapons put a huge mechanical deterant on any style of combat where weapons are treated as throwaways UNLESS you take some Charm/Merit to get rid of it. It's almost like a Feat Tax from 4th Edition D&D on making Thrown a cool combat ability.
Would it really break the game to let people draw weapons as a reflexive action?
Would it really break the game to let people draw weapons as a reflexive action?
terrormortus
New Member
Personally I would prefer that drawing weapons reflexively be allowed and even makes sense in most cases, but hey i'm just some guy. I agree that treating weapons as a throw away is not perfect, neither is requiring a charm or merit. I suppose that an alchemical fire weapon is a possibility, but the problem is that no matter what is the fact that you need to reload at some point, which breaks up any sort of combat. No matter what you'll have to burn essence, reload, or something so might as well pick your poison and work around it.
Greenstalker
Senior Member
I think it will. If such a thing was possible, I am pretty sure that someone will create a character with dozens of knife (or swords assuming that he can carry all of them) just to get their rate in a flurry and by buffing some/each of those attacks with excelencies, it will become annoying.Kyeudo said:
Kyeudo
One Thousand Club
In other words, you'd get some people abusing it and using it as just another infinite rate trick. Didn't they clarify that if your dice pool goes to 0 or below because of multiple action penalties that you can't take that action?Greenstalker said:
Greenstalker
Senior Member
I couldn't find the clarification you speak in scroll of errata but it does not change the fact that I can make up to my accuracy pool/2 attacks this way with almost any weapon as long as I can carry them, actaully I can even make it possible to go up for higher accuracy weapons for my last attacks and try to add a few extra attack to progress.Kyeudo said:
EDIT: One of my rule-breaker players made an even more interesting point such using a two-handed pretty damaging weapon for attack and a defense high weapon for defense. If it is reflexive exchanging between them shouldn't be a problem.
Reflexively drawing weapons wouldn't be a problem. White-Wolf's rules are predicated on the concept that you'll temper your players with the assiduous application of logic. Pulling out weapons super fast to get a high rate, or swapping between heavy attack and lithe defense weapons, is simple munchkinnery (in most cases). Ergo, the only reason this is a problem is if you play with powergamers who are disinterested in storytelling, and if that's the case, they need to go play DND.
Greenstalker
Senior Member
Unfourtunalty there are always exceptions like people who are interested in story who are powergamers (most of my neighbourhood for example) than again it is probably because most of my players are engineers of some sort or professional testers in some companies.Gylthinel said:
cyl
Creepy smile
I'd rather go with thrown weapons for 2H fighting.
Flame pieces suck... they're slow, have a ridiculous range for their damage, and you have to reload them. So it means a stunt on every action to reload and shoot single handedly... and it takes 2 actions to do so (reload + shoot)... IIRC.
One of the best pair of dual weapons on the market are the hatchets / tomahawks from the corebook.
Rate 2, regular speed, regular range (but augmentable... not like those flame pieces) automatic return, and regular bonus for weapons.
You can make up to 4 attacks with them, ranged or melee, or mixed as you wish.
And they have a very nice crippling effect.
Flame pieces suck... they're slow, have a ridiculous range for their damage, and you have to reload them. So it means a stunt on every action to reload and shoot single handedly... and it takes 2 actions to do so (reload + shoot)... IIRC.
One of the best pair of dual weapons on the market are the hatchets / tomahawks from the corebook.
Rate 2, regular speed, regular range (but augmentable... not like those flame pieces) automatic return, and regular bonus for weapons.
You can make up to 4 attacks with them, ranged or melee, or mixed as you wish.
And they have a very nice crippling effect.
Ledaal Kajiri
Two Thousand Club
And more interestingly...no one ever takes Lightning Torment Hatchets. They are interesting toys, too.
cyl
Creepy smile
It sounds like they qualify as "...powergamers who are disinterested in storytelling..."Greenstalker said:
Exalted, no, ALL White-Wolf games will break when bent. Ever play Aberrant? Or Vampire? Or the very recent Scion? The guys that write these games aren't crunchy statisticians out to churn out a miniatures war simulation game (though you might say Exalted is a step in that direction). Seriously, go play DND. Your munchkins will love it.
On a side note, I played with an engineer once, and he was the most laze-faire gamer I've ever played with. I was shocked.