When to use investigation

[The Name Without Meaning]

I have a lot of trouble deciding when to use this ability. I always imagine a kinda noir scene, all shadows, where a Night Caste walks into an office - there's a body, a snuff box, stray hairs and an open crystal decanter of whisky. Bingo, he uses investigation to piece together what happened here.


My problem is that my players want to use investigation on things that I would ascribe to other abilities - I'm generally lenient if there seems any possibility of ability overlap, but I wondered what others thought.


For example:


A PC wants to find out when a sidereal is due back at his office - My first thought is bureaucracy to figure where to look or who to sweet talk, with some presence or performance to convince people to talk.


How many bandits were here, based on theit tracks? This seems to clearly be survival, but I can see where straight investigative skills would also be helpful, even if the PC has absolutely no experience with wood lore.


I need to know how many, and where are the copies of book X in Nexus -I'd say Lore, definitely, but I can see how a crack investigator with only average Lore would expect to be able to find something like this out.


So, any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Joseph]

I have a lot of trouble deciding when to use this ability. I always imagine a kinda noir scene, all shadows, where a Night Caste walks into an office - there's a body, a snuff box, stray hairs and an open crystal decanter of whisky. Bingo, he uses investigation to piece together what happened here.
My problem is that my players want to use investigation on things that I would ascribe to other abilities - I'm generally lenient if there seems any possibility of ability overlap, but I wondered what others thought.

Most Abilities have SOME crossover between them; it's more about methodology than results.  Just because you COULD do something with another Ability, that doesn't mean you can't do something similar and equally effective with Investigation.

For example:
A PC wants to find out when a sidereal is due back at his office - My first thought is bureaucracy to figure where to look or who to sweet talk, with some presence or performance to convince people to talk.

And your method would work, but Investigation would also work.  This would be a great time to use Investigation in fact.  Remember, interrogation of any variety can come under Investigation, and thus, getting information from these people can be a Charisma or Manipulation + Investigation roll.


So it's not that your way wouldn't work, but that there is more than one way to do it.  The bureaucratic socialite does it the way you describe, and the investigator does it another way.  You might say "Well why have these other Abilities at all if Investigation can do this fine on its own," to which I reply, "These Abilities can also do plenty of OTHER things that do NOT involve seeking information, while Investigation cannot."

How many bandits were here' date=' based on theit tracks? This seems to clearly be survival, but I can see where straight investigative skills would also be helpful, even if the PC has absolutely no experience with wood lore. [/quote']
I'd give this one to Survival and not Investigation.  You aren't really trying to find new information, you're trying to analyze what you have.  Investigation would be useful for finding traces of the presence of bandits in a more subtle situation, but in a situation like this, I'd say pure Survival.

I need to know how many' date=' and where are the copies of book X in Nexus -I'd say Lore, definitely, but I can see how a crack investigator with only average Lore would expect to be able to find something like this out.[/quote']
Using Lore would be easier, but Investigation could definitely achieve this, albeit with a fair amount more effort put in.

So' date=' any thoughts would be appreciated.[/quote']
My primary suggestion would be keeping in mind that two Abilites aren't forbidden from achieving similar results.  It's all about the method the player wants to use, not the ends.  Wounding someone can be achieved with Melee OR Martial Arts, and finding information on a Sidereal's office habits can be achieved using Bureaucracy OR Investigation.

 

[MikeOQuinn]

I look at it the same was as using magic in the Mage setting: you can accomplish the same thing many different ways.


In Mage, if I'm late for work, I can use:

• Correspondence to take me there immediately

• Forces to affect the flow of electricity in the street lights, turning them green

• Time to speed my travel

• Entropy for me to get lucky and have the office shut down, allowing me to stay at home.

In Exalted, if I want to ride a horse, it can be through Dex+Ride, Charisma+Ride, Manipulation+Ride, or Strength+Ride, depending upon how I describe the event. In the end, I should describe what I want to accomplish and how I want to do it. I should then trust my ST to assign me a roll according to the actions taken.

A PC wants to find out when a sidereal is due back at his office - My first thought is bureaucracy to figure where to look or who to sweet talk' date=' with some presence or performance to convince people to talk. [/quote']
They could rifle through his desk, looking for something that indicates what sort of appointment he's gone out for. This would, of course, involve being in the office, but getting there's another story entirely.

How many bandits were here' date=' based on theit tracks? This seems to clearly be survival, but I can see where straight investigative skills would also be helpful, even if the PC has absolutely no experience with wood lore. [/quote']
Investigation would allow them to reconstruct the scene and find the tracks. Survival would allow them to analyze and follow the tracks. Investigation would tell them that there was a thaumaturge with the group, based on the specialised ash in one corner. Survival would allow them to determine that the ash was from a specific plant native to one mountain in the region.

I need to know how many' date=' and where are the copies of book X in Nexus -I'd say Lore, definitely, but I can see how a crack investigator with only average Lore would expect to be able to find something like this out.[/quote']
Lore would allow you to recall that there are 3 copies of the book. A high enough roll would give you some hint as to where they are stored, even possibly exact names. Investigation would be used to track them down, based on library records, sales slips, and rare-goods vendors who might have to be bribed to reveal their customers' names or positions. Investigation would reveal that extending the middle digit on the statue of the Scarlet Empress will open the secret passage behind the bookcase to where one of the books are stored; lore would analyze the statue and realize that one of the fingers is not in the same position as the original from which it was cast.

 

[The Name Without Meaning]

Sounds good. I was afraid I was being too lenient, but it sounds like I shoud maybe even be a little more so.


Many thanks for your thoughts.