Thoughts on Stygia?

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

Quite possibly one of my favorite (dead) cities in all of Exalted. The shadow of the former Solar Deliberative capital, Meru. A huge place of ghosts and the whispers of the Malfeans. The seat of the Deathlord Congress across the mouth of the Void. It is a city that has caught my imagination time and time again. I strive to run a campaign in it one day. I love the Underworld setting. It's one not used very often at all in my circles of roleplaying here at home. I was wondering how some of you have used it and described it with the massive calendar of Setesh floating in the air, the vast jade effigy army and so forth. Even the recently described Emissary of the city. Thoughts? Comments?

 

[Flagg]

Even the recently described Emissary of the city. Thoughts? Comments?

Que?


-S

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

^^;;;; I was just talking about the *looks through Bone and Ebony* Emisarry of Righteous Victory. The ghost/construct released a few years after the Empress disappeared.  But the whole "thoughts and comments" bit was about how everyone has used the city (if at all) in a Abyssal campaign or a game at all. Sorry for the confusion ^^;;

 

[ashenphoenix]

One of the pit traps that Wraith fell into (the original Stygia) was exactly what you've said here.


Stygia was a beautiful, baroque mesterpiece, epic in grandure and scope.


The only problem was that it was too epic, too grand and too staid.


It was difficult to interact with - and to have an impact upon.


Then came Orpheus.


Set from a mortal perspective, it offered an "ordinary World" to start from, working it's way to world-shaping events. It had depth, mood, responsiveness and a simple-to-understand learning curve.


When running a Stygia campaign, it may be best to work towards it, rather than starting the PCs in it depths of the political intrigue. Even such simple concepts as an "Abyssal" are new and strange to the newly dead. Even starting with a simple pre-death scene can help people understand what Stygia means.

 

[Andrew02]

I don't understand the appeal of the Underworld beyond the presence of the Deathlords. It's never seemed especially alluring to me, and the utility of going there other than to kick some Abyssal ass is lost on me entirely.


It seems boring. Ghosts of dead people doing things as they've done for hundreds or thousands of years, and all that. Endlessly repeating, hollow rituals, and the like. Even the Dual Monarchy's play to bide their time and hopefully oust the Deathlords inspires a sort, 'so what? They're ghosts. They shouldn't even exist -anyway-' reaction.

 

[Persell]

I'm going to have to guess that you either haven't taken the time to read through the setting properly or you are lacking a little imagination here... The dead don't have to be doing the exact same thing if you don't want them to. It's a setting, they give you an outline that you can mold and define to suit your need and wants as either a player or a GM.


After I read through the abyssals book I really found it hard to pull myself away. All the intrigues that the Deathlords set up, the vast wastes of soul crushing despair, the thining of the borders allowing an unwary group of adventurers to watch the sun rise over a vastly more alien landscape than they could ever hope and listening to the murmers of "We sure as hell aren't in Kansas anymore Toto..."


Will all the abilities the Abyssals have, surely there must be something that you'd like to use as an antagonist or anit-hero. The Underworld only has to be as dead as you make it. Take a second look, please... it's worth the effort I assure you.

 

[Cthulhu_Wakes]

Question: was that directed at Andrew or me? ^^;;;

 

[Andrew02]

Question: was that directed at Andrew or me? ^^;;;

It was almost certainly directed at me, communicating things the both of us are likely already painfully aware of.

I'm going to have to guess that you either haven't taken the time to read through the setting properly or you are lacking a little imagination here...

I have imagination in fair quantity and I have read the material in full. Please don't make these sorts of assumptions about me if you do not wish me to make them in kind.

The Underworld only has to be as dead as you make it. Take a second look, please... it's worth the effort I assure you.

If I am to remake the Underworld from whole cloth to make it conform to my tastes (which it does not at the moment beyond the various citadels of the Deathlords) the utility of re-reading is most certainly lost on me. It is not particularly likely I will read something and find my imagination sparked in some new, strange way after re-reading at the urging of a person who has insulted me. It would, in all likelihood, reinforce my dislike for the Underworld.


If I lack imagination as you assert, this is far more useless than if I had simply not read the material (as you also asserted, though I can attest that this is wholly false).

Will all the abilities the Abyssals have, surely there must be something that you'd like to use as an antagonist or anit-hero.

This is the case. It should be amply clear that I find use for them as antagonists. Or did you perhaps simply choose to see that I disliked the Underworld and chose to respond in a fashion that suggests you did not fully read my response or ignored portions of it that disagree with the light you wish to cast me in?

All the intrigues that the Deathlords set up, the vast wastes of soul crushing despair, the thining of the borders allowing an unwary group of adventurers to watch the sun rise over a vastly more alien landscape than they could ever hope and listening to the murmers of "We sure as hell aren't in Kansas anymore Toto..."

All the intrigues the Dynasts/myriad rulers of the Hundred Kingdoms/Lookshy Officials/Guild Factors/[insert random power group] set up, the vast wastes of land worked by a people systematically being forced into hereditary slavery, the thinning of the allowing an unwary group to watch the sun rise over a vastly more alien landscape than they could ever hope and listening to the murmurs of Fae who've come to have some sport.


The Underworld, unless you choose to make specific changes in your particular game, offers me nothing that Creation does not. It offers me nothing Autochton does not. I can find intrigues anywhere. I can find soul crushing despair anywhere in a less literal form (which is much more interesting to me). There are Wyld Zones all over Creation. If I'm playing as Lunar or a Fae, I'll run into them lots, but there is no reason any other sort of character cannot or will not.[/b]

 

[Master of Malfeasance]

hmm...


I picture Stygia in kind of the same way that The Outworld (or outlands or whatever the hell it was called) was portrayed in the Mortal Kombat movie.  Statues that don't have any immediate meaning, no vegetation anywhere, everything with a death motif, skulls and crossbones on vast scales, but that's only on the surface.


There's all that shopping!


Ghostly smiths are tireless, weavers can weave souls as easily as funerary offerings and essence into fabrics that couldn't be made anywhere else!  Imagine a poison harvested from a dead scorpion and what it could do if you used it on someone living, even an Exalt.  Marketplaces are ALIVE with grave goods, soulsteel items, massive merchant empires being built and crumbling the next day, and it all goes at a feverish place because everything is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD!!  No one feels anything!  No sense of accomplishment, no thrill of victory, just dead emotions and lingering remnants of living thoughts.  What if you brought a mortal concubine into the underworld?  What could you trade her for?  If you were dead, and everything were cold and meaningless, what would you give to lie with a warm, living, breathing woman one last time?  Soulsteel artifacts are relatively common down here, as is jade and the like.  And all of it being clamored over by hungry ghosts, and ghosts hungry for a little action.


Why not buy a concubine which never dies, and only manifests to satisfy you, or a Soulsteel and Bone ship that floats behind you in spirit form and manifests when you need a vessel to get from here to there?  Need a ghostly squire to help you with your armor who won't die in the first volley of arrows?  Why not buy one that's already dead?  He manifests to help you with your armor, you slide some motes his way, and he goes away until you need him again!  Need a mount, but don't know how or don't have time to care for one?  No problem!  We're slashing prices on undead Simhattas, financing available now!  Even get a rebate in soul tokens, inquire at your nearest shadowland NOW!  Why should Deathlords get all of the cool military units?  Ghostly scouts!  Assassins who can manifest anywhere!  Cheap labor at www.rent-a-zombie.exalted  (for those of you who use miniatures, check out the Bag 'O' Zombies--now in glow in the dark--at your nearest gee-sorry, game store.


Exalted: The Abyssals says that most trade conducted in the underworld is in funeral jade and favors and barter.  Bah!!  Soulsteel tokens are the way of the future!

 

[Quchu]

For some reason I think a story set in Stygia would remind me of this flash. (Insert silly emoticon here.)


Er, yeah.

 

[Master of Malfeasance]

what the hell was that?

 

[Marquis]

seems to me to all depend on taste. I for one am drawn to the abyssal setting and the underworld simply because i like the baroque, macabre beauty of the setting. I don't think ghostly characters would be boring at all. Many of them DO simply go through the motions of life, sticking with the same pattern for millenia, but not all ghosts do. Many ghosts find rebirth in the underworld as a chance to start over. Now, I'm not huge on deathlords, though they can be interesting at times, but I do really like the abyssals as characters. the fact that they were once solar exalted and the potential for inner turmoil this holds. There is also the whole Renegade Abyssal thing which i think would be quite interesting as this rebellion against the malfeans (and of course the punishment meated out upon them should they decide to do so) always makes for interesting character development. Opinions aside, however, I think Andrew is right. You won't find anything to play in the underworld that you couldn't also play to a certain effect in creation or the wyld. Point is, it's different. it has a different style, a different sensibility...it also just so happens to be a style that i really enjoy.


Now i'll say this: a campaign set ENTIRELY in the underworld probably wouldn't do too much for me. I find the underworld is used most effectively when it's used in tandem with creation. For example: a party of solars who step through a shadowland and find themselves in the empire of Hanao and Tyoka. These mighty beings are now in a place that is completely foreign to them and, in all likelyhood, completely unlike anything they have ever seen...on top of that, despite their great power, they won't be able to survive for long as they cannot eat the food nor drink the water so it makes for interesting roleplaying. On the flip side, a party of abyssals sent out into Creation to *insert epic quest here*. It'd be great fun to see these beings of the underworld rediscover the creation which they ruled over as former solars. Also, Creation poses a whole bunch of threats and challenges for abyssals which, again, make for great roleplaying.


So yeah, i guess it's all a matter of taste.

 

[Quchu]

what the hell was that?

Exactly.