So Why Japan?

[simj26]

Number 1)


If you're a natural born Japanese, don't read this thread.


EDIT: If you're Brazilian as well, don't read this thread.


Or do. I'm just a post, not a cop.


I'm just saying that because this probably doesn't apply to you.


Number 2)


If you get pretty easily offended because I ask questions, don't read this thread.


Or do, I'm a post, not your mom.


Number 3) if you have any leftover sardines, send it to me because I'm really hungry.


Or don't. I'm not your boss.


Now, to business.


Why Japan? Why Nihongo Ichi?


Like I get why you want to visit there, I mean, I want to go back there too. I didn't know of the love I held for dakis until I became a wizard (in-joke). But the fact is:


Japan is xenophobic as hell. There was a video circulating around the other time about a bunch of officials going around in a van with a microphone yelling out "GAIJIN GO HOME". It was not a joke. They are xenophobic as hell. No matter how you think they may accept you into their folds, westerners will always get dirty looks from several parts of Japan. Media doesn't tend to portray this, because animation studios and film studios want international reach. Showing xenophobia on their content might diminish the reception of a global audience.


The next thing is the otaku culture. Yes, yes, japan is lolweird, and you can buy all those stuff everywhere, but no one does this proudly. Or they do, but society will still view them as utter shit. Japan's ever progressing technological haven and economic status means that if you are a stay-home, shut-in nerd who doesnt have a job that contributes to the society and just watches anime all day, you're useless. Even if you do have a job, otaku are seen as the lowest of low, and are often ostracised by some in the working force.


Japan is like any other country. They have their standards, they have their cultures, and they have their individual circles, but just because your anime or your mango glorifies everything you want to be doesn't mean that it will be the same in real life Japan. Fiction and reality are individual existences, don't get them messed up.


C'mon! Hit me with your best shot, you punks! I know there are guys out there who want to go Japan because you think they accept people like you! CMON! FITE ME! I THRILL FOR THE BATTLE

 

[tsundere]

So you're saying that real life Japan isn't composed entirely of cute high school girls with colorful hair and personality types ending in -dere? Has anime been lying to me this whole time?

 

[Gilzar]

Yah, you make up some pretty good points.


I have an uncle that works for a laptop company and takes business trips to Japan, and he's told me a lot about Japan. Very racist culture, infact they have a specific word that they call anyone who isn't Japanese (I think it was Gaijin) . Doesn't matter how long you've been there, wether or not you know the language, or wether or not you're the king or president of some country, they'll still call you it because you're not Japanese.


It's just a complex culture that's beautiful like any other culture. To be more specific, it's exotic. We have all this shit in America that we think is normal, then over there they have stuff' that we don't have. Anime is an artform that wasn't mainstreamed into America (I mean it's not everywhere, not saying it's not popular; because it is). My opinion on why it's so popular is just because of how exotic it is really. Most aren't aware of the darker side of Japan, though it was a lot worse at one point.

 

[simj26]

So you're saying that real life Japan isn't composed entirely of cute high school girls with colorful hair and personality types ending in -dere? Has anime been lying to me this whole time?

haha u r funi gai/grill u maekd me laff

Most aren't aware of the darker side of Japan, though it was a lot worse at one point.

Definitely, man. Thing is, though, I still see a lot of people on-site that crow about how Japan is their true home, how they belong there and all that, and it really puts into perspective that Westerners tend to get a lot of flak by just being there, even as tourists. The situation is a lot better now, but there are still really really really rough things going on there. It isn't as pronounced as compared to the past, but quite a few of the locals detest foreigners altogether, much less Westerners.


The word is gaijin, yeah. It's less rude than its Chinese Cantonese equivalent 'gweilo', which translates into 'ghost man' due to the perception that westerners have pale skin, since 'gaijin' simply means 'foreign person'. Due to the progress of society, some have started viewing it as a neutral nomenclature, due to them referring foreign things like cars as 'gai'-[item in question], but it's been so used by others as a derogative term for foreigners so often that it's still stuck, sort of, just like how using the word 'niggardly' isn't going to earn you any points.


EDIT to original post: Brazilians are also exempt from this. Brazil and Japan have a weird connection with each other...

 

[Gilzar]

Japan is just weird like that. Some think that it may be due to their huge advance in technology over the last hundred years, and that the culture really didn't have enough time to catch up with it. I mean, Japan was still having revolutionary conflict with its samurai as late as the 1900's, then to just jump from battered war torn land to economic superpower that is one of the most advanced nations in the world in less than 100 years? Culture takes more time to develop than that

 

[Cross]

The sexism situation is bad over there too.


By that, I mean the ideal is still a cooking, stay at home wife and a working husband. Woman are expected to take care of the kid. Manliness is a major thing in Japan too. Well, it can be in other countries, but Japan has its own little flavor. For example, enjoying sweet things can be considered feminine so tough dudes tend to avoid it. Basically Japanese men and woman are under huge cultural expectations about how a real man or woman would act, look, or speak.


If you've visited, do you have any insights about this?

 

[call me rae]

Lol well to be fair my over glorification of Japan has nothing to do with anime or studio ghibli or whatever. My grandfather was in the navy and stationed oversees for much of my mothers childhood. So she has incredibly fond memories of growing up and going to school there. Granted that was probably on a military base but she's always wanted to go back.


My sister was also in the navy - her husband still works with the marines - and she was stationed in the pacific for a time in Japan. Or at least she visited for a few days and she said they are veryxenophobic and were protesting near the base.


Made my mom really sad cuz it kind of took the rose colored glasses down a bit


But my brother in law is applying for an assignment overseas and Japan is the top of his and moms list.


I think it's mostly nostalgia really - she wants to see how much is different from her memories

 

[Barbas]

Didn't Japan recently piss off China and South Korea after one of it's leaders downplayed Japan's war crimes?

 

[Gilzar]

They've always been pissed at each other for what Japan did in WW2. Evem though that was an entirely different government and time

 

[kibou]

Oh god, this reminds me of middle school. Yeeaars ago I really loved the art in manga, and I still do, but I really wanted to make that same art. Since no one's ever heard of American-created manga and of course I have to have some fame I wanted to go to Japan and use a Japanese pen-name so that people didn't immediately judge it for not being Japanese. Figured it would be easier than trying to sell manga in a country where the only manga-related business is translating.


I definitely don't want to do any of that anymore, and haven't for a long time.


The extreme work hours and constant non-stop drawing and writing... no thank you. I'm amazed people do that.


Japan's xenophobia.... no thank you.


Anime-fan hate... no thank you.


Although I totally understand why they don't like otaku. Weaboo weaboos are pretty terrible even whether or not they have jobs. I'm not trying to bash on anime fans at all, and like I said I am one, but everyone's encountered the obnoxious type I'm referring to.


I think people like NEETs are frowned on in most societies tho- we Americans definitely make fun of/look down upon anyone still living with immediate family. It's even worse if they don't have a job.


If a basement-dwelling nerd somehow managed to get to Japan in order to escape America's stigma for their sort.... I'd almost feel sorry for them. From the frying pan into the hellfire!


However, if I was rich, I'd totally go shopping there. ( > w > ) All that merch! Plus it'd be interesting seeing places that the areas in my favorite game were based off of. Lol.

 

[Archie]

Number 1)
If you're a natural born Japanese, don't read this thread.


EDIT: If you're Brazilian as well, don't read this thread.


Or do. I'm just a post, not a cop.


I'm just saying that because this probably doesn't apply to you.


Number 2)


If you get pretty easily offended because I ask questions, don't read this thread.


Or do, I'm a post, not your mom.


Number 3) if you have any leftover sardines, send it to me because I'm really hungry.


Or don't. I'm not your boss.


Now, to business.


Why Japan? Why Nihongo Ichi?


Like I get why you want to visit there, I mean, I want to go back there too. I didn't know of the love I held for dakis until I became a wizard (in-joke). But the fact is:


Japan is xenophobic as hell. There was a video circulating around the other time about a bunch of officials going around in a van with a microphone yelling out "GAIJIN GO HOME". It was not a joke. They are xenophobic as hell. No matter how you think they may accept you into their folds, westerners will always get dirty looks from several parts of Japan. Media doesn't tend to portray this, because animation studios and film studios want international reach. Showing xenophobia on their content might diminish the reception of a global audience.


The next thing is the otaku culture. Yes, yes, japan is lolweird, and you can buy all those stuff everywhere, but no one does this proudly. Or they do, but society will still view them as utter shit. Japan's ever progressing technological haven and economic status means that if you are a stay-home, shut-in nerd who doesnt have a job that contributes to the society and just watches anime all day, you're useless. Even if you do have a job, otaku are seen as the lowest of low, and are often ostracised by some in the working force.


Japan is like any other country. They have their standards, they have their cultures, and they have their individual circles, but just because your anime or your mango glorifies everything you want to be doesn't mean that it will be the same in real life Japan. Fiction and reality are individual existences, don't get them messed up.


C'mon! Hit me with your best shot, you punks! I know there are guys out there who want to go Japan because you think they accept people like you! CMON! FITE ME! I THRILL FOR THE BATTLE

As someone who lived there for years for money not manga, this post is like God coming to Sinai to save all the otakus whove been lost in the desert for 30 years


Japan is not otaku, and Japan is not cute. There's akhiabara, there are people whose lives are anime, but the most important segment of Japanese society that does most of the work has a very distinct culture which is completely the opposite of everything any young person, especially an otaku, would ever like.


Also I don't know if you mentioned this anywhere else in the thread but otaku in japanese means someone obsessed with something strange so much that it hurts, so I get a laugh when people wear that label proudly back home

Didn't Japan recently piss off China and South Korea after one of it's leaders downplayed Japan's war crimes?

The amount of damns given by the leaders about war crimes is exactly zero.


The reason is complicated, but mostly because the British, French, and Dutch did the exact same thing and didn't get any crap for it.

Japan is just weird like that. Some think that it may be due to their huge advance in technology over the last hundred years, and that the culture really didn't have enough time to catch up with it. I mean, Japan was still having revolutionary conflict with its samurai as late as the 1900's, then to just jump from battered war torn land to economic superpower that is one of the most advanced nations in the world in less than 100 years? Culture takes more time to develop than that

Naw the culture in Japan shifted a ton, the last guy to seppuku or do any crazy samurai stuff ever was a nobel laureatte world famous author / professional bodybuilder / samurai trained militia head in the 70s.


People adapted really well and "culture" I'd say is in three parts. Youth are a lot unlike their moms and dads. At home, things are serene, but the biggest thing you'll notice about japanese culture is the work culture, which involves 90% more effort and over 9000% more presentability than anywhere else

EDIT to original post: Brazilians are also exempt from this. Brazil and Japan have a weird connection with each other...

Yeah and the Japanese Brazillians are oppressed or something. And Spain there's more flamenco academies in Japan than the rest of the world combined

[QUOTE="Cross_Rhodes]The sexism situation is bad over there too.
By that, I mean the ideal is still a cooking, stay at home wife and a working husband. Woman are expected to take care of the kid. Manliness is a major thing in Japan too. Well, it can be in other countries, but Japan has its own little flavor. For example, enjoying sweet things can be considered feminine so tough dudes tend to avoid it. Basically Japanese men and woman are under huge cultural expectations about how a real man or woman would act, look, or speak.


If you've visited, do you have any insights about this?

[/QUOTE]
Oooooh yes it's bad. Japan, believe it or not, has the most entrenched gender roles in the world.


Partly because of that, the birthrate is really bad and there's a demographic crisis, and part of the reason is younger girls don't like how they're treated. For young people it's very different than with their parents: a lot of the older ones really got into the salarybot culture, but young people are a lot more lax. Different standards for different places though, "lax" for them is like overachiever for us.


Legally, the women's rights situation is really bad too, but that's a very very complicated story that has to do with the gerrymandering of the ruling party and it being entrenched in backward countryside farmers


There's growing equality but still business and power are male worlds. Lots of japanese women don't work not just because it's expected, but also because it's just not comfortable. A big tradition in higher paying jobs is to drink every night with your coworkers, but if you're a female manager, downing sake till 3 AM with ugly middle aged men four times a week isn't exactly what you want to be doing

I think people like NEETs are frowned on in most societies tho- we Americans definitely make fun of/look down upon anyone still living with immediate family. It's even worse if they don't have a job.


If a basement-dwelling nerd somehow managed to get to Japan in order to escape America's stigma for their sort.... I'd almost feel sorry for them. From the frying pan into the hellfire!

if anything it would be the other way around: un-NEETifying in America is a lot easier than in Japan. Lots of times in Japan you only get 1 shot. Think of it this way: most of the best jobs are open to kids right out of college.


And they only get a chance to be hired once, right after they graduate.


Man my post so kawaii right

Have fun travelling to Japan desu

 

[simj26]

otaku in japanese means someone obsessed with something strange so much that it hurts,

I forgot to mention this, since the word's true meaning and its connotations are already bored into my skull so deep that I had assumed other people would have known too.

Thanks for the clarification for those who are uneducated in moonspeak.


Gr8 post, btw, r8 it 8/8


EDIT for those who will inevitably hop in here and call me a h8r: It's not like i DONT wanna go to japan, I DO want to live in Japan, but not for the whole anime draw, and more of because I wanna work there. I'm torn between there and Straya because of connections I have in both places. Akiba, Harajuku, Shibuya are just the icing on the cake. The point of this post is to highlight that Japan is not the sugar sweet otaku haven that many seem to believe it is, just because of the media it releases globally. I mean, if I believed every american movie to ever be released outside of america, I'd think it was bad comedies starring adam sandler on one half of the country, and sappy romances where they kiss in the rain on the other. And it's based on a true story. And all chinese people work in chinese take out restaurants, talke rike dis, somehow devolving from being human, etc etc

 

[Archie]

I forgot to mention this, since the word's true meaning and its connotations are already bored into my skull so deep that I had assumed other people would have known too.

Thanks for the clarification for those who are uneducated in moonspeak.


Gr8 post, btw, r8 it 8/8


EDIT for those who will inevitably hop in here and call me a h8r: It's not like i DONT wanna go to japan, I DO want to live in Japan, but not for the whole anime draw, and more of because I wanna work there. I'm torn between there and Straya because of connections I have in both places. Akiba, Harajuku, Shibuya are just the icing on the cake. The point of this post is to highlight that Japan is not the sugar sweet otaku haven that many seem to believe it is, just because of the media it releases globally. I mean, if I believed every american movie to ever be released outside of america, I'd think it was bad comedies starring adam sandler on one half of the country, and sappy romances where they kiss in the rain on the other. And it's based on a true story. And all chinese people work in chinese take out restaurants, talke rike dis, somehow devolving from being human, etc etc

Yeah and if I watched British TV shows I'd think I was in real life Britain or something, where immigrants are real people and poor neighborhoods exist


Pfft what losers like really lrn2propaganda

 

[London Fog]

Last year, I went to Japan on a brief summer foreign exchange trip. While I absolutely adore it there and didn't have any particularly bad experiences with the locals, I can see what you mean. I have blonde hair and blue eyes, and I definitely got some stares walking down the street in the smaller towns. In the city, people seemed pretty used to seeing the occasional american, and only the little kids stared. But there really is a gap between those of us who are obviously americans and those who are Japanese. You just have to look for it in the right places. While we were at the Kanto Festival, there were multiple photographers (one looked professional) taking pictures of us from across the street, and plenty of people were staring.


But honestly? I can see why some people, aside from the elderly who are often more narrow-minded, might not like foreigners, as exemplified by the kids I was on the trip with. A couple of them liked to jump around on the smaller cement structures that you see in the city (like planters, barriers, etc) and they definitely got some weird looks for that. I saw my classmates do a lot of rude things, honestly, but the one thing that stood out in my mind was the time we were at a shopping center where a lot of local teenagers hung out. A lot of them were wearing, y'know, the crazy street fashion that Americans love so much. One of the girls in my group stopped one lady in a lolita dress and asked in English to have her picture taken with her. I thought this was super rude, considering that we were taught how to ask for a picture, and the lady looked really uncomfortable throughout the entire process. I was the best Japanese speaker in my exchange group, so I really wish I had caught up to her and apologized on my classmate's behalf, but I was kind of lost for words.

 

[The Confused Pixie]

Although I totally understand why they don't like otaku. Weaboo weaboos are pretty terrible even whether or not they have jobs. I'm not trying to bash on anime fans at all, and like I said I am one, but everyone's encountered the obnoxious type I'm referring to.

This; this why I adore the shit out of you.


Any whoo on top again.


My very American hating brother lived in Japan for three years before leaving after the Tsunami and Nuclear melt down in; wow it's been such a long time. 2011 I think? It was like.. November or December of that year when he came home.


He learned fluent Japanese while in High school; I believe that helped his case; he sounded like an actual Japanese citizen; he had that mentality as well. I swear that man was born in the wrong region; Anywho, from what he's described Weeaboos are concidered trash and if you go to Japan strictly for you Passion of Anime; you're gonna get a shit storm-a-coming to you; luckily his reasoning had the quite opposite; he had always adored Japanese culture from an early age and began to mimic it in the respectful way the "weebs" don't. I believe his hatred from People, mostly the American sorts, probably helped him be accepted. If that makes sense? He's was white; but by talking to him; you couldn't really tell. His Japanese is on Fleek, as the people in my area would call it. But really; I don't blame Japan for their racism but the sexism could kinda chill. But I understand why it is the way it is. A culture like that just seems to work in the case of the Japanese; at least that's how my brother described it. Although because of that he dated more of the South Korean immigrants rather than the Japanese girls, the parents didn't really hate him; he just didn't like how codependent they were on their families. However culture of any kind should be celebrated; regardless of their discrimination.

 

[simj26]

[QUOTE="The Confused Pixie]Anywho, from what he's described Weeaboos are concidered trash and if you go to Japan strictly for you Passion of Anime; you're gonna get a shit storm-a-coming to you; luckily his reasoning had the quite opposite; he had always adored Japanese culture from an early age and began to mimic it in the respectful way the "weebs" don't.

[/QUOTE]
Exactly the point of this thread, really. If you head over to Japan with the intent of living there out of the sole desire of your animu and mango, you're going to be ostracized harder than -insertpolitically incorrect analogy here-, and yet so many people persist on claiming that Japan would accept them into their folds despite their experience of Japan being nothing more than through the television screens/computer screens.

[QUOTE="The Confused Pixie]culture of any kind should be celebrated

[/QUOTE]
Again, I'd like to point out the point of the OP and this thread, I'm not saying Japan is not a nice place altogether, I'm just saying people are viewing it in the most ruinous way possible, for both the country and the person who thinks so. If a person wishes to celebrate their culture, then celebrate it properly. No one wanders into America and celebrates it for its gun-toting second amendment, do they?

 

[The Confused Pixie]

Exactly the point of this thread, really. If you head over to Japan with the intent of living there out of the sole desire of your animu and mango, you're going to be ostracized harder than -insertpolitically incorrect analogy here-, and yet so many people persist on claiming that Japan would accept them into their folds despite their experience of Japan being nothing more than through the television screens/computer screens.
Again, I'd like to point out the point of the OP and this thread, I'm not saying Japan is not a nice place altogether, I'm just saying people are viewing it in the most ruinous way possible, for both the country and the person who thinks so. If a person wishes to celebrate their culture, then celebrate it properly. No one wanders into America and celebrates it for its gun-toting second amendment, do they?

Not all; then again most other people around the world aren't as willfully ignorant as most Americans. :I And I feel like Weebs fall into that category.

 

[Atom]

Also I don't know if you mentioned this anywhere else in the thread but otaku in japanese means someone obsessed with something strange so much that it hurts, so I get a laugh when people wear that label proudly back home

I honestly scowl to myself when people call themselves otakus. Like, they don't even know...

 

[simj26]

[media]



[/media]
Filthy Frank sums everything on this thread up nicely.