Rant. (If easily offended, probably shouldn't read)

WinterO

WinterO

Goblin Goth
So, I roleplay a lot. Probably too much.


One thing always gets me down when i go somewhere to do forum roleplaying though. No matter where i go, there will invariably be really shitty characters.


I mean, mary sues and gary sues. Dead parents, absurdly conflicting character traits. Often wielding the powers of "Darkness", may or may not be half/full demon/vampire/werewolf.


(Note: if you're one of the above, please rethink your character development.)


Maybe I'm harsh, maybe I should just let people do what they want and not think about it.


But I do think about it, and it drive me bananas because I feel like people should be able to look at a good character, a well thought out character, and realise that the kinds of things they write are broken and just plain bad.


In combat scenarios, characters like these are nigh invincible, often do things incongruent with their stated abilities, and are nothing less than gods.


Perhaps the desire to make these kinds of characters is just inherent in a lot of kids, maybe at some point everyone has some kind of desire to live out the EXACT SAME FANTASY.


Though I find that hard to believe.


This also brings up the obsession with darkness. evil things. demons.


Why are they always dark and depressed and emotionless or thoughtlessly dull.


These are things i dont understand, and would like to better understand, so that I might educate the masses on how to avoid these mistake characters and develope well thought out, properly named, dynamic, really good characters.
 
I once had a character that ended up evolving into a "god-like" being. Have to say it was one of the most challenging things I had to play. Partially because she now significantly outmatched a large number of player characters and had a very short temper. It was quite a balancing act to have her react in ways that were consistent with her character without spoiling the game for the other players.


That being said I don't find anything particularly offensive Mary Sues, Gary Stus, overpowered characters or most of the other things you've listed. Yes they have the potential to be horrible and flat but in the right hands they can also be quite artful. Having a character that seems perfect or trope-like on the surface and actually making them compelling and relatable is quite a talent in my opinion. That being said I do prefer when there weaknesses to balance out my character's strengths but on the flip side sometimes it's fun to have an unbalanced character for everyone else to hate on.
 
What's wrong with Mary,/Gary sues or, wielding powers of darkness?
 
ArtisticKwittyKat234 said:
What's wrong with Mary,/Gary sues or, wielding powers of darkness?
Click to expand...
They're Mary/Gary Sues*.


And "darkness" is overused. not to mention that personally I find it childish and weabooey.


*Read: unoriginal.
 
I prefer water powers than darkness, but, everybody has their own opinions.
 
YAAASSS this needed to be said. I can't tell you how many times I've seen these awful characters.
 
I completely agree with you, especially with your point that darkness is so cliché and overused.


On the other hand, I have seen some characters that have dead parents (one of my own included) or that have never known their parents and are decent. Not that I'm saying it's a common thing, of course, just that it can be done.


...of course that also implies my own character is decent, and I'd like to think he is because people like him, but I digress. (He's one of the few things I'm proud of, ok?)


Or, you have where characters seem like they have potential but the writer never goes anywhere with them to show development. Or they do the same thing... over and over again... That's just as irritating as Sues/Stus, if you ask me.


Or this instance:


On another site, I was doing a more realistic roleplay that took place in medieval times... and someone wanted their character to have purple and blue hair and got all upset when I turned that character down.


I'll stop now.


But yeah, that said, it's annoying as hell.
 
ArtisticKwittyKat234 said:
What's wrong with Mary,/Gary sues or, wielding powers of darkness?
Click to expand...
A Comprehensive List On Why You Should Not Have Mary Sues/Gary Stus/Overpowered Characters:


1. As OP said, they are overused and cliché. Think about it, how many times have you seen the same "Brutal-back-story-character-with-unlimited-power" trope? It gets very boring after a while, and it takes little to no thinking to come up with such a character.


2. Simply, it's too vague and un relatable. In writing, you should have concrete details about your characters; things that make them at least somewhat tangible and easy to imagine. Using such a broad term as "darkness" does not give your fellow role players a clear picture in their head. It's too broad, and frankly, it's lazy writing.


3. Characters such as these usually consume the entire roleplay. A big part of roleplaying is courtesy. It is not courteous to put your OC above everyone else's, and that's what you do when you create a Mary Sue. With their constant brooding about their pasts, these characters will make other roleplayers extremely annoyed, especially since none of them will be able to defeat your character's "absolute might."


4. They're simply boring. Think about it, if your character already has perfect virtue, what are you going to do for character development? The exciting part of roleplaying is seeing your's and other's characters develop, become better people, learn how to deal with their vices. You're not gonna get to make your character grow if they're already perfect. Also, if your character is so flawless and powerful that none of the events in the plot affect him/her, where's the fun in that?


There's like, a million other reason why perfect, overpowered characters are just the worst. Anyone feel free to add to the list if you must, but these are just my personal reasons for disliking Mary Sues. That's all.
 
@punkduckling pointed out great reasons that I relate to but there's a big one (for me) that isn't there.


The person playing a character like that, is usually very much like their character. Especially those 'woe is me' characters where nothing in their life is right, everyone hates them and they have no friends (because they're whiny and rude to everyone). As someone who has been through a lot of adversity in a short amount of time, I cannot stand people like that because that is not the way to deal with things. So since I can't deal with people like that, of course I'm not gonna deal with a character like that and more often than not, they go hand in hand.
 
What annoys me most about Mary Sue / Gary Stu type characters is that the people who play them have no understanding of group variation. The roleplays that attract them usually have multiple options for what the characters are able to do. However, every single MS/GS fulfills the exact same role. They're all the grim, brooding, quiet, easily offended assassin/dark wizard/anti-hero.


And they come in waves. You'll get five albino, red-eyed, raven-black haired assassins in your fantasy roleplay. It's like people don't even read the other character sheets before applying.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's all about who is writing. Quite frankly, I struggle with trying not to over power a particular character (see signature), when he has a very loosely developed yet overly defined power seated in the back of his mind. If you can spin it right, these problems you guys are speaking of wouldnt be problems at all...


The characters aren't te Gary/Marys...we are.
 
Hmm I can understand the dislike for Mary-Sue/Gary Stu characters, but I have to say they aren't all based on dark and brooding characters. The MS/GS characters are basically "cookie cutter characters". Honestly, most characters will be based around one of the MS/GS archetypes, but a decent writer is able to transform those characters into something other role-players and readers can connect with. I think a lot of times, writers (at the very least those on role-play forums) do imprint qualities they see in themselves onto their characters, which in itself isn't wrong. The issues come out when they try to compensate for a character's faults in ways that are not challenging or balanced, and are often unbelievable. Most of the time this is because of lack of experience in writing, as the writer may simply be trying to mimic a personality that they admire from another story.


For those reading this thread and worrying if their own characters fall into the Mary Sue category, I suggest looking over this list of tropes http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySueTropes. Understa
 
Most of the posts have been about...I don't know, the more "traditional" Mary-sue/Gary-stu characters,


but I have encountered a new, quickly rising breed of Sues and Stus that I can't stand,


(mostly because I actually have to deal with these people in real life.)


THE PSEUDO HIPSTERS AND "ARTISTS".


Oh god. Can't stand these guys as people. Can't stand these guys as RP characters.
 
I agree that using the "power of darkness" as an ability can be a bit overdone. I almost thought about doing it once, but instead decided to give my character certain abilities with shadows. It turned out much better and he seemed a lot less OP. Darkness is a little bland. Spicing up the idea would make it seem less cookie cutter and boring.


As for overpowered characters, I personally find them boring to play so I've never made one like that. I mean, what fun is it to have some god-like character that is perfect in every way and can't lose battles? It seems like there would be no room for character development to me and no interesting challenges.


It feels like to me some people don't ask themselves "What can I do to make my character better?" before creating them. All these thoughtless characters turn out to be the Mary Sues.
 
First of all: Hey guys, I'm new here.


Now then. From what I understand, Mary Sue/MARTY STU (according to what I'd read) came from an old star trek book made a couple years ago. A Mary Sue was originally an overpowered centre of the story. A "Black Hole" Mary Sue mixed with the op sue, mixed with some stupidity like (From the book) her being a twelve year old captain of a ship. I just thought I'd toss that out there, on the off chance it's right, since the name is being used for


Op characters are commonly made with either new roleplayers or ones that have come across something they don't feel like trying hard at and just want to screw around on. For the first one, it's because they want to be noted, and stand out. The idea dies over time but the urge needs to die of old age, and I honestly don't think it can leave another way. As for the dead parents, I can answer that one since around 90 percent of my characters had/have that. It's because I (Maybe they as well) like the idea of their character being on his own. Not necessarily to be a moody emo guy, but just because his story is only about him.


I can also promise you that a lot of the characters mentioned in this thread can be enjoyable to rp with. The arse hole (man or woman) with the tragic backstory, the Jackie of darkie darkness, or anyone without any parents. As for overpowered characters, that isn't always a sign of a boring dull character (Although it usually is), but I agree the idea itself is a flaw. Worst of all is that when actually put into a scenario, they simply fail and he/she embarrasses him/herself. I think they just need some advice, since dull, boring character (Or superman) is commonly made by someone who is new to this. To that person, experience is the best teacher but a piece of advice would be that a lot of roleplay is about passive (Talking to other characters, or even roleplaying alone) more than combat. The character in question should be able to offer SOMETHING in those situations. Another piece of advice would be to actually create a character, not just a hasty sketch of one. An actual, developed backstory. It can be in pieces in your head, but have stories of his past ready. Have something in your mind, and if it happens to end with it begging for a change in his personality, then change it.. I think the character can be emo, but they have to do it well. They have to have something to offer, some kind of idea, but not beat everyone over the heads with an "I'm very very sad" brand hammer. Any character can be played horribly, even if there's an interesting idea behind it. I've seen it, and he happens to continue to be a scar in my mind...


As for the power of darkness, I can't really say much on that since I've never seen it before. Might just be from the new The Darkness games, or maybe it just sounds cool. To me, it sounds like the ability to make awesome shadow pictures or turn the lights off.


Anyways, those are my own thoughts on this.
 
In my own opinion and experience, the characters with "the powers of darkness" tend to be one of two types. If they are evil characters, it's in their nature to have dark powers, and though this tends to be overused and a bit cliche at times, at least it fits into their nature. These are the dark and sinister characters who really just like being bad. They destroy buildings, relationships and lives as a hobby. Some may be "misunderstood", but they all tend to have some character trait that says EVIL.


Case in point:
3ety4ate.jpg



The other type is a "dark horse" (sorry couldn't help myself :3 ), up and coming personality. This is the Good-wanna-be type, a shallow character who tends to have a backstory of being raised good, but having some dark past that he/she keeps to themselves. These characters tend to annoy me, as they are usually attention hogs in any setting, they try so hard to "not let the darkness take over" that they simply become one-dimensional. If it doesn't involve their personal quest to destroy the evil in themselves, they typically aren't interested. Another facet of this stereotype is that they were either previously a saint, or they were a "bad boy/girl" image, wanting to be the heroic street thug. This tends to bring up the "I have a hidden past" aspect again, as they will try to hide who they were before the entered the current situation.


All told, the issue of overused Powers of Darkness is simply a phase in society, where now they either want to play the straight-up villain or be the antihero, common themes in popular culture and society today. I'm willing to discuss/debate any of this, and if I'm wrong on any points, I don't mind being intelligently corrected. :)


EDIT: Oops, I somehow missed the first few pages of this and thought the discussion was on overuse of Darkness as a cliche power. My apologies, I can also do an article on Mary/Gary Sues since they also tend to get my dander up xD
 
This is completely random, but my preference for my OCs is that they're underpowered and weak compared to other characters. I guess I just like seeing my OCs bloody and beaten? ^q^;;
 
@Bagel I actually like those types of characters oddly as well, or characters that actually take damage realistically. They tend to be very fleshed out and have extraordinary depth within them, not to say powerful characters don't have depth, but from my experiences as a RPer the majority of other RPers that portray quote physically "weaker" characters seem to be more experienced.


Going back to the topic in general, Mary Sues and Gary Sues I've always seen was a "Dark Ages" for some of us. Regrettably, seven years ago, I probably made a character that vaguely fits that description (though, I was more of the blood magic type, ooo, 2spooky...I know). In some ways, some of us view it as a stepping stone into making more interesting characters and storylines. However, I feel as if overpowered characters can actually be *good* in some senses if properly RPed.


Let us take, for example, a fantasy setting. This theoretical character is some "knight-in-shining-armor". Maybe even has the generic backstory of being an orphan, raised to wield a sword and charge fearlessly into battle whilst holding no true allegiance to any faction of this world. A good start to making this trope of a character interesting is having them to be realistic. If your character is some sort of *legendary* warrior or soldier in any setting, modern, fantasy, historical, etc. etc., then they are most likely going to have some sort of scars or wounds from combat. And no, cool face scars don't count, but actual damage to their body. In fantasy settings, when I make knights or mercenaries, I have a habit of them actually missing body parts (ex. an eye, fingers, hands, maybe even far as a limb). Not only does something as minor as this provides depth and realism to the character, but also makes the character have to adjust accordingly and overcome challenges of say using a sword in their inefficient hand as their sword hand has been too mangled.


Another trope that is so easily frowned against but could easily be morphed into something interesting is tragic back stories. Yes, parents dying from birth or dark pasts are unbearable, but if the RPer is skilled enough to RP the character accordingly then I don't see the issue with it. Granted, they would be better off with a more interesting backstory, but it is the passion of the RPer that drives the character, not purely on how original or different a character is. If that was the case, something as unique as making a character that is a talking, singing potato would be like the work of Tolkien to RPers.


please don't make a talking, singing potato character.





TL;DR The passion of the roleplayer drives the character, not the character driving the passion of the roleplayer.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I agree with you fully. But honestly, most people have to take time to out grow it. When you see those characters, more often than not, they belong to relatively new RPers, or RPers that don't get the concept of, "you're not the main character of the story-- there is no main character, everyone is on equal footing". It just takes time for them to break out of these habits. I use to do it, too. It was bad. Some characters I made make me want to barf. Trust me when I say I had my fair share of "nekos" and demon/neko half-breeds. But I was ten, so I forgive myself.


And vampires anymore have become a huge peeve for me. Almost no one can play them well, myself included. There's those rare few who can nail it on the head or get close, but for the most part, everyone goes to take the hit and they miss. I love vampires, don't get me wrong. I try to improve at playing them, but it's not easy to. Partially because I'm not fond of playing godly characters, and that's how vampires are typically perceived-- extremely powerful and wizened beings with few weaknesses. And honestly, I feel like they're overdone these days. So I try to play them in intervals if I can help it.


Anyways, just let them grow out of it. Eventually, they'll get better if they like to RP and want to create better characters.
 
Raneth said:
I agree with you fully. But honestly, most people have to take time to out grow it. When you see those characters, more often than not, they belong to relatively new RPers, or RPers that don't get the concept of, "you're not the main character of the story-- there is no main character, everyone is on equal footing".
Click to expand...
Agreed.


A lot of people role play because it's a chance for them to be something they're not on the real life: Adventurous, bold, powerful, wielders of darkness that lies in everyone's heart, something like that. They feel free of the shackles of reality, even for a short time.


I'm not afraid to tell that I was once like that. And I learnt that it's a phase. A lot of people tries stuff to escape the world they live in. And they need to learn that doing said stuff will only hide that world from them. And when they realize that, they'll be able to enjoy the thing without the necessity of living it full time.
 
Y'know, I have a character whose power is darkness-based energy manipulation, and dresses in a really creepy costume, and he's probably the nicest, most idealistic character in the story.


I did it on purpose :P
 
I won't lie, I'm guilty of this, I have made characters just like the ones described in the opening post. I've been trying to change it though, trying to make my characters a bit more realistic without some bullshit "powers of darkness"
 
I find darkness a cool ability, Like all powers. I say matter control is the greatest power. I only use darkness for a character once or twice in my 1 year of roleplays. A character I had name Nixis use Dark God slayer magic. I never thought he was OP, I did try to make him a decent character but I bet this is one dimensional. He had a dark pass, Raised in a dark cult. Dad was crazy, mom wasn't. Him and her ran way, Dad finds and kills mom. he kills dad. Didn't care for large amount of people. He was slightly sarcastic and tried to suggest other people from making stupid choices such as fighting someone inside there own guild hall. Nixis only show anger when his guild was wiped out along with members. Oh yeah he was half demon. He kept his true powers hidden, Only other God slayers knew he was one. I never got to flush him out like i wanted because the the Rp i was in was just filler half of the time and turned me off. I never intended for him to take over a role play and be unbeatable. He never did any of those thing. I make sure all my characters have a weakness and make sure they get hit. I hate it when a character never is hit. Tell me if you hate Nixis or did I do him correctly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top