My Thoughts on "The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim"

[Farseer of Ulthwe]

Please share your thoughts civilly and logically. If you haven't played any Elder Scrolls games that are not Skyrim or Elder Scrolls Online you have absolutely NO say in this. Please don't post spam like the first responder below. Give me an ACTUAL response. Not just:

Not going to happen. Now enjoy your fallout 4 with swords and magic
Also Elder scrolls was never that great and Ultima and Nethack and some others I can't remember did the level up your skills by usage thing before it and on top of that Morrowind was aimed a general audience too

 

[Farseer of Ulthwe]

Skyrim. A critically acclaimed video game. Belonging to the 'Elder Scrolls' series. And I use the term 'belonging' very loosely. Sure, the aesthetic, and lore is Elder Scrolls based. But the gameplay? It is just really sad. I suppose you could say, ‘Just because it is different, doesn’t mean it is bad.’ Well, my little ignorant gamer, different doesn't mean 'good' either. It depends on what is different. It failed on three major features: the story, the skill levelling system and the character creation. Note, I will be comparing all of these to the pinnacle of the franchise (in my own humble, worthless opinion because all of you readers are far superior to worms like me *sarcasm detected*), 'The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind.' Also note: I’m talking about Bethesda’s efforts, mods aren’t a valid counter-argument.


The thing I despise most about the game is the story. Or lack thereof. What is the story? A dragon god is going to destroy the world! Though that idea in itself is very simple, it could be executed fairly well in the way the story progresses. It’s about the journey, not the destination. I will start off with saying, right off the bat, it still has the traditional Elder Scrolls ‘find this, find that’ charm. But that is all. This problem started with Oblivion, and was continued into Skyrim. The damned quest marker. Instead of making you explore to find it, the tell right where it is on the map. In Morrowind, they made you read (the third installation did not have voice-acting) the dialogue to use the landmarks they tell you about to find the location you are looking for. That brings me to the quest journal. In Morrowind, it is a physical book you keep in your inventory and constantly use for reference to find the quest. Also, as a nice addition, it keeps track of all of the lore. In Skyrim, you just use it for selecting quests to track. As for the questline itself, you can’t really change the outcome much. Really, you just kill Alduin that is the only outcome. In Morrowind, you can fail the entire questline just by accidentally killing the wrong person. Oh yeah, you could kill anyone you want; there are no essential characters. What does that mean? Well, Dagoth Ur is trying to infect all of Tamriel with Corpus, which essentially turns you into a zombie. So, if you fail to stop him, then the history of Tamriel will be changed drastically. You essentially cause the end of the world, though you won’t notice in-game.


This brings me to an essential part of adventuring and questing, levelling up your character. Skyrim has an absolutely ATROCIOUS skill levelling system. Just a bunch of perks. Nothing interesting or new. Morrowind had what most traditional RPG’s had, percentage chances to hit. Now, Morrowind had something new added to that, which is the ability to actually improve your character’s skills (though it wasn't the first). When you start off, you don’t know much. Depending on your class (I’ll talk about that later) you may have a 50/50 chance to hit or even a 25/75. As you level up your skills, the percentage increases. Maxing out your skills mean you have a 100% chance to hit with whatever weapon you levelled up. Magic is also different in Skyrim. Magicka regenerates, and magic is fairly weak. In Morrowind, you can’t regenerate your magicka without potions. With that being said, that make staves a great alternative. Staves allow you to cast spells without the use of magicka. Sure, you need soul gems, but you seldom need to refill you enchanted weapons in Morrowind. In addition, magic essentially makes you a god in Morrowind. Plus: custom spells. Skyrim doesn’t have that sort of immersion, Morrowind does. In this case, Oblivion stays closer to Morrowind than it does to Skyrim.


What do you need to do in order to actually be able to level your skills? Why, create a character of course! In Skyrim, all there is to it is create your appearance. That’s it. In Morrowind, you can create your appearance, though there isn’t much to it at all but there is more to it than that. Each one of the races have their own strengths and weaknesses. In addition, when you create or choose from a class, it allows you to choose which skills you are better with. To help you with that, there are birthsigns, a feature much like Skyrim’s Standing Stones, albeit you choose in the beginning and that is it. You can’t choose another birthsign, though it is fair to note, changing classes isn't too punishing as the bonuses aren’t too large. Again, some birthsigns have strengths and weaknesses, some give unique abilities and some just have added skill bonuses (be it give a few extra levels or just allow you to level skills up faster). Again, what does Skyrim have? A detailed appearance creator, sure, but when it comes adding to gameplay, what does it have? Absolutely nothing!


And these aren’t the only problems Skyrim has in comparison to other Elder Scrolls games. But I suppose it was because Skyrim was made for the general audience. But I say damn the general audience! What of the true Elder Scrolls fans? Shall we be swept away and thought of as nothing? I beckon Bethesda to create another Elder Scrolls game that is similar to Morrowind, but different enough to be considered something new. But as of right now, all we can do is wait.

 

[Ixacise]

[QUOTE="Psyker StrunLokSingh] S What of the true Elder Scrolls fans? Shall we be swept away and thought of as nothing? I beckon Bethesda to create another Elder Scrolls game that is similar to Morrowind, but different enough to be considered something new. But as of right now, all we can do is wait.

[/QUOTE]
Not going to happen. Now enjoy your fallout 4 with swords and magic


Also Elder scrolls was never that great and Ultima and Nethack and some others I can't remember did the level up your skills by usage thing before it and on top of that Morrowind was aimed a general audience too

 

[Farseer of Ulthwe]

Not going to happen. Now enjoy your fallout 4 with swords and magic
Also Elder scrolls was never that great and Ultima and Nethack and some others I can't remember did the level up your skills by usage thing before it and on top of that Morrowind was aimed a general audience too

Skyrim was more so aimed for the general audience (as they enjoy simplistic gameplay).


"Also Elder scrolls was never that great"


Your opinion. I think it is far superior to Fallout. I just prefer fantasies to science-fictions.

 

[Farseer of Ulthwe]

I would also prefer you take your sarcasm out of this. I may be an arsehole, but I don't implement it into my argument. Remember, I stated:

[QUOTE="Psyker StrunLokSingh]Please share your thoughts civilly and logically. If you haven't played any Elder Scrolls games that are not Skyrim or Elder Scrolls Online you have absolutely NO say in this.

[/QUOTE]
Sarcasm≠Civil


Also note Elder Scrolls came BEFORE Fallout and Skyrim before Fallout 4. (And don't forget your capitals next time, my dear *is that Morgan Freeman?* Hokage.)


-->Sarcasm<-- (Pffh, I'm totally not rubbing this in your face. Heh heh. Sorry, couldn't help it. ) aside, did you actually bother to read that essay? I'm flattered you are interested. And as for the Ultima and Nethack example you had given, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that MOST RPG's didn't have that or at least implied it.

 

[Greynor]

From experience with both Skyrim and Morrowind, I would have to disagree with you on a few of the flaws you have drawn attention to. (Though I do agree that Morrowind is by far the better game)


I. The Story


In Skyrim, I agree the main quest-line is god-awful compared to Morrowind, and I do think Bethesda slacked off on a lot of the "major quests", but a lot of the fun in the game for me came from adventuring around and doing the side quests. The small stories I gleaned from them were very entertaining, and it really immersed me in the gameplay. I think the quest menu was also more convenient. I did enjoy the experience of roaming around Vvardenfall with only quest journal, but after a few hundred hours, it became very tedious constantly having to find locations. Ideas such as essential characters being able to change the outcome of the whole game seem very trivial to me as nothing is programmed into the game itself which shows the changes. (and these can be done with mods)**


** Now to clarify, mods, even though you said you were looking only at the Bethesda part, do redeem the game. I think Bethesda should be given props as they themselves spent the time to refine the tools which allow mods to be added to the game and releasing it to the public. Morrowind doesn't have nearly as many mods (though the mods that it does have are spectacular), but I guess once could say the gameplay and already added features makes up for it. All of the problems in story-telling can be fixed through the use of a variety of community based mods.


II. Leveling


I agree, leveling has been super dumbed down, though I can't say that I'm not happy to start out running at top/medium speed instead of moving super slowly through the first few hours of the game. I think it has a unique leveling system in itself, which while Morrowind's is more complex, gives more concrete goals for the gamer to achieve. It allows for an easy and tangible system which (for some gamers) makes the game more about the environment/world than the skills though the skills still matter.


(also modz)


Also for Dragon Shouts.... Dragon shouts were amazing in Skyrim, and in my eyes using them made the game so much more enjoyable whether it was summoning cyclones or distracting enemies.


The magic skill tree was made worse, but I still thought it was pretty spectacular considering the variety of given spells. In Morrowind, the given spells are useless, and you have to create your own spells, but in Skyrim they give you an incentive to adventure and explore the world to find new and better spells. I wish you could create your own spells, but I feel that it also balances out the game to make the user less OP as they were in Morrowind when they had lotsa money + high levels.


(also modz again)


Also, the magic animations do give me pleasure and immerse me more into the gameplay seeing my enemies burst into flames or be shocked by lightning.


For character creation, the race of the character you choose allows for different perks and dialogue. Though this is more immersive in Morrowind, I don't think this should discount it entirely. If I'm playing an RPG, I enjoy the liberty to sculpt my character into exactly how I want him to be as I will have to play with him throughout the entire game. I will have to live through him, suffer through him, love through him, and I like making him my own.


On the whole I agree with most of your points, but I do think that Skyrim is worthy of TES name, despite it's lack of complexity. It's a fun game, it has lore, it has graphix, and it allows the user to change the game as they see fit through mods. The mods essentially add almost anything lacking in the game.


Just my $0.02

 

[Ixacise]

The general audience's taste changes with the times bruh. I mean don't you remember when everyone wanted to be a Doom clone, GTA clone, all the wannabe halo killers, rpg elements jammed into non-rpgs, etc? The people crave super accessible action RPGs that paradoxically have a world large enough to dick around with while having a linear story tied to their mechanical progression. So basically JRPGS with better production values and an active battle system and a large overworld.


Elder scrolls isn't that great from either a mechanical perspective or story. And by story I mean lore because that's the only story aspect anyone cares about and even the writers can't keep up with their own stuff nor is it charming when they try to play it off in a meta way. And Kirkbride's stuff which is supposedly the best is just pretentious and half-baked, it's literally your generic high fantasy stuff mashed with poorly remembered Indian mythology with the names changed to fantasy gobbledygook.


And mechanically well... First person hack and slash is unfun as a melee guy since it's just flailing your weapon like a spaz. And everything is as fair and balanced as Fox News is. Yet it's serviceable enough though to be playable but not GOAT/GOTY tier either.


Also I never said anything about fallout being better or their release chronology. I am pretty much flat out saying that the next elder scrolls game will be literally fallout 4 in function but with the melee and magic as the main combat method. And it will get a 10/10 GOTY and then whatever tweaks they made will be carried out to the new fallout which will then be rebooted into a tactical shooter involving BoS.

 

[Farseer of Ulthwe]

From experience with both Skyrim and Morrowind, I would have to disagree with you on a few of the flaws you have drawn attention to. (Though I do agree that Morrowind is by far the better game)
I. The Story


In Skyrim, I agree the main quest-line is god-awful compared to Morrowind, and I do think Bethesda slacked off on a lot of the "major quests", but a lot of the fun in the game for me came from adventuring around and doing the side quests. The small stories I gleaned from them were very entertaining, and it really immersed me in the gameplay. I think the quest menu was also more convenient. I did enjoy the experience of roaming around Vvardenfall with only quest journal, but after a few hundred hours, it became very tedious constantly having to find locations. Ideas such as essential characters being able to change the outcome of the whole game seem very trivial to me as nothing is programmed into the game itself which shows the changes. (and these can be done with mods)**


** Now to clarify, mods, even though you said you were looking only at the Bethesda part, do redeem the game. I think Bethesda should be given props as they themselves spent the time to refine the tools which allow mods to be added to the game and releasing it to the public. Morrowind doesn't have nearly as many mods (though the mods that it does have are spectacular), but I guess once could say the gameplay and already added features makes up for it. All of the problems in story-telling can be fixed through the use of a variety of community based mods.


II. Leveling


I agree, leveling has been super dumbed down, though I can't say that I'm not happy to start out running at top/medium speed instead of moving super slowly through the first few hours of the game. I think it has a unique leveling system in itself, which while Morrowind's is more complex, gives more concrete goals for the gamer to achieve. It allows for an easy and tangible system which (for some gamers) makes the game more about the environment/world than the skills though the skills still matter.


(also modz)


Also for Dragon Shouts.... Dragon shouts were amazing in Skyrim, and in my eyes using them made the game so much more enjoyable whether it was summoning cyclones or distracting enemies.


The magic skill tree was made worse, but I still thought it was pretty spectacular considering the variety of given spells. In Morrowind, the given spells are useless, and you have to create your own spells, but in Skyrim they give you an incentive to adventure and explore the world to find new and better spells. I wish you could create your own spells, but I feel that it also balances out the game to make the user less OP as they were in Morrowind when they had lotsa money + high levels.


(also modz again)


Also, the magic animations do give me pleasure and immerse me more into the gameplay seeing my enemies burst into flames or be shocked by lightning.


For character creation, the race of the character you choose allows for different perks and dialogue. Though this is more immersive in Morrowind, I don't think this should discount it entirely. If I'm playing an RPG, I enjoy the liberty to sculpt my character into exactly how I want him to be as I will have to play with him throughout the entire game. I will have to live through him, suffer through him, love through him, and I like making him my own.


On the whole I agree with most of your points, but I do think that Skyrim is worthy of TES name, despite it's lack of complexity. It's a fun game, it has lore, it has graphix, and it allows the user to change the game as they see fit through mods. The mods essentially add almost anything lacking in the game.


Just my $0.02

I still found Skyrim to be an enjoyable game. But from my perspective, it wasn't really the best way to go about with a TES game. I guess a short answer is while Skyrim is a great game, it well never be up to standard with Morrowind. And yes, I agree that Morrowind could be tedious.

 

[Farseer of Ulthwe]

The general audience's taste changes with the times bruh. I mean don't you remember when everyone wanted to be a Doom clone, GTA clone, all the wannabe halo killers, rpg elements jammed into non-rpgs, etc? The people crave super accessible action RPGs that paradoxically have a world large enough to dick around with while having a linear story tied to their mechanical progression. So basically JRPGS with better production values and an active battle system and a large overworld.
Elder scrolls isn't that great from either a mechanical perspective or story. And by story I mean lore because that's the only story aspect anyone cares about and even the writers can't keep up with their own stuff nor is it charming when they try to play it off in a meta way. And Kirkbride's stuff which is supposedly the best is just pretentious and half-baked, it's literally your generic high fantasy stuff mashed with poorly remembered Indian mythology with the names changed to fantasy gobbledygook.


And mechanically well... First person hack and slash is unfun as a melee guy since it's just flailing your weapon like a spaz. And everything is as fair and balanced as Fox News is. Yet it's serviceable enough though to be playable but not GOAT/GOTY tier either.


Also I never said anything about fallout being better or their release chronology. I am pretty much flat out saying that the next elder scrolls game will be literally fallout 4 in function but with the melee and magic as the main combat method. And it will get a 10/10 GOTY and then whatever tweaks they made will be carried out to the new fallout which will then be rebooted into a tactical shooter involving BoS.

First things first: Fox News joke! Hell yes!


I guess that is all, as your taste is WAY different to mine. I honestly like generic fantasy stuff. Why do you think Warhammer Fantasy is enjoyable so many people (though not popular and I suppose you have no idea what that is)? And I suppose the same "next Elder Scrolls game will be Fallout 4" can be said vice versa Skyrim was an "enhanced" Fallout 3/New Vegas and Fallout 4 was an "enhanced" Skyrim. The next Elder Scrolls game will be an "enhanced" Fallout 4 and Fallout 5 (or whatever comes next) will be an "enhanced" Elder Scrolls VI.


(The reason I said "enhanced" in quotations is because not everyone would agree.)


All in all, both Fallout and Elder Scrolls are great. I think magic is a lot more badass than a rifle or something. Like I said, in different words, to each his (or her) own. I honestly NEVER played as a melee character. Though, my brother has, who enjoyed it quite a bit. But I cannot speak from experience.


Though you must say, does Fallout have its own conlang (constructed language)? (please do not use from the expected "conlangs are cancers" response) Bethesda created an entirely NEW language. You can learn how to speak/read/write it here: Thuum.org - The Dragon Language Dictionary

 

[Ixacise]

They could have used esperanto and no one would be wiser.

 

[Farseer of Ulthwe]

They could have used esperanto and no one would be wiser.

Ah yes. Esperanto. But Dovahzul is still great.

 

[Martyin]

Oh wow I'm surprised... There's a lot of dislike of the game!


I'm an extremely passionate and hardcore gamer myself, so I'd like to throw in my two cents, hopefully I won't just echo other posts and opinions already made.


I've very recently gotten into the game of Skyrim. It took a LOT of time. Although I've spent years trying to play it, the strange opening sequence and the unbearing freedom just threw me off. I enjoy freedom in a video game, but I also enjoy narration to a story, and like an earlier post mentioned, the story seems all over the place.


But finally I've managed to dive into the game, and I thoroughly enjoy it. I mean, it's given me a BUTT LOAD of inspiration.


To me, the story was very evident. You're in a country currently being ravaged by a civil war, and you have an option to choose to fight for either side or neither. The on-going history of Skyrim is there, and after I finally took time to let the stacks of disjointed text (books) sink in, Skyrim really did become a video game that felt like I was exploring an alternate world. I felt as if I was in a cousin of the Lord of the Rings universe, and the uncrippling freedom finally felt more like a Sims game (Sims franchise I enjoy, which can help tell you a lot about what kind of gamer I am), which let my creative juices flow. All sorts of backstories and motivations for my main character came to play, and I thoroughly enjoyed playing much of the game as my character, or sometimes watching my character from above in a godly way. Heehee.


But 39 hours into my game, and I've barely cracked open the civil war story. Other stories and quests need opening, and many of them can be quite gripping and enjoyable. Characters can often piss me off (Ulfric I traveled half the damn country to serve you motherf****r give me some damn respect you raci-), or earn some of my respect, both in immersive ways. Though... the repetition of voices and character-personalities is starting to get to me.


Fallout 3 is another game that I actually still struggle to get into, similar to Skyrim. Unlike Skyrim, Fallout 3's intro was so incredibly immersive for me. Instantly, I was motivated to explore relationships between characters in my life and kick the asses of all the dickweeds I see. The game's intro felt like it was setting up a simple yet incredibly-motivating backstory; here's your life beginning. Here's the friends and dickweeds in your life. Here are the options you have for dealing with these people. Choose and enjoy the consequences.


Then I leave the vault, get greeted with an utterly shitty desolate landscape that I cannot navigate in for the life of me, and suddenly all the events in the vault feel meaningless to the game. Suddenly I feel like narration and context and story are all kinda gone, and now I have to deal with a dead wasteland as my view for the entire game. (Seriously, how does one motivate oneself to explore a dead, ugly wasteland?!) I don't know... I'm very curious to see more of the story in Fallout 3 when I finally do get the motivation to explore it's world. Just... when I boot up the game and look around the wasteland, everything just looks so dead.

 

[Farseer of Ulthwe]

[QUOTE="Ethan Unken]Oh wow I'm surprised... There's a lot of dislike of the game!
I'm an extremely passionate and hardcore gamer myself, so I'd like to throw in my two cents, hopefully I won't just echo other posts and opinions already made.


I've very recently gotten into the game of Skyrim. It took a LOT of time. Although I've spent years trying to play it, the strange opening sequence and the unbearing freedom just threw me off. I enjoy freedom in a video game, but I also enjoy narration to a story, and like an earlier post mentioned, the story seems all over the place.


But finally I've managed to dive into the game, and I thoroughly enjoy it. I mean, it's given me a BUTT LOAD of inspiration.


To me, the story was very evident. You're in a country currently being ravaged by a civil war, and you have an option to choose to fight for either side or neither. The on-going history of Skyrim is there, and after I finally took time to let the stacks of disjointed text (books) sink in, Skyrim really did become a video game that felt like I was exploring an alternate world. I felt as if I was in a cousin of the Lord of the Rings universe, and the uncrippling freedom finally felt more like a Sims game (Sims franchise I enjoy, which can help tell you a lot about what kind of gamer I am), which let my creative juices flow. All sorts of backstories and motivations for my main character came to play, and I thoroughly enjoyed playing much of the game as my character, or sometimes watching my character from above in a godly way. Heehee.


But 39 hours into my game, and I've barely cracked open the civil war story. Other stories and quests need opening, and many of them can be quite gripping and enjoyable. Characters can often piss me off (Ulfric I traveled half the damn country to serve you motherf****r give me some damn respect you raci-), or earn some of my respect, both in immersive ways. Though... the repetition of voices and character-personalities is starting to get to me.


Fallout 3 is another game that I actually still struggle to get into, similar to Skyrim. Unlike Skyrim, Fallout 3's intro was so incredibly immersive for me. Instantly, I was motivated to explore relationships between characters in my life and kick the asses of all the dickweeds I see. The game's intro felt like it was setting up a simple yet incredibly-motivating backstory; here's your life beginning. Here's the friends and dickweeds in your life. Here are the options you have for dealing with these people. Choose and enjoy the consequences.


Then I leave the vault, get greeted with an utterly shitty desolate landscape that I cannot navigate in for the life of me, and suddenly all the events in the vault feel meaningless to the game. Suddenly I feel like narration and context and story are all kinda gone, and now I have to deal with a dead wasteland as my view for the entire game. (Seriously, how does one motivate oneself to explore a dead, ugly wasteland?!) I don't know... I'm very curious to see more of the story in Fallout 3 when I finally do get the motivation to explore it's world. Just... when I boot up the game and look around the wasteland, everything just looks so dead.

[/QUOTE]
It isn't that I dislike Skyrim. In fact, I love it! It just isn't up to par, as I said before.


I must say, though. Fallout 4's story is a little better than Fallout 3's. It also homes the best plot twist ever.

Spoiler

Your character's son is EVIL and is the secret antagonist!

 

[Martyin]

[QUOTE="Psyker StrunLokSingh]It isn't that I dislike Skyrim. In fact, I love it! It just isn't up to par, as I said before.

[/QUOTE]
Ahhhh good point. That is a big difference.