House Rules: Handling the Craft Ability.

Griggori

One Time Luck
Salutations board goers. Short time lurker, first time poster. Thought I'd start making some contributions.


So, the issue of how Craft canonically is separated into a plethora of different Abilities has been at issues several times on the forums, and I wanted to present my solution. It isn't really novel, but resembles a synthesis of what several members has put forth, even though I developed it independently before even reading the posts. Great minds think alike, I suppose.   :)  At any rare, C&C are welcome. What follows is how I plan to handle Craft in an upcoming Chronicle:


Rather than handling Craft as the whole gamut of industry and artisan-based skills, in my game craft will now represent a broad and robust aptitude for hands-on applications and activities.  It represents mechanical inclination, ingenuity and problem solving as it pertains to planning, building, repairing and understanding physical items. A character with Craft 1 would be better than the average person at making minor repairs on a familiar item, and might be able to occasionally posit clever means of 'rigging' items to function when disinclined to. Just as a person with 2 of an ability is considered able to practice at a professional level (for a mortal) someone with Craft 2 might be a handyman or an assistant to a scavenger lord. Similar in the way Lore was very deftly described by Jakk Bey, Craft in my game breaks down like so:


Craft


Craft 1:  You rarely break familiar items by casual handling them, and can occasionally manage to 'rig' simple and familiar broken items to be relatively functional again. You come up with a novel solution to a mechanical problem once in a while. You could function well as an unskilled laborer with this level of Craft.


Craft 2:  You almost never damage familiar things by casually handling them, and can usually repair common items to be as good as new. You can occasionally puzzle out unusual items functions. You regularly have novel solutions to mechanical problems. You could function as a village handy-man at this level of Craft, and would be a good candidate for apprenticeship in many professions.


Craft 3:  You never break things in casual handling, and manage to regularly fix even unfamiliar items.  You are quite adept at figuring out what strange items do, so long as they aren't inherently magical, as many First Age wonders are. You come up with truly ingenious solutions to mechanical problems from time to time. At this level you could function as a professional crafter of some talent, or as a very skilled tinker. By this point most anyone will have acquired some professional, specialized training (see below).


Craft 4:  You would almost never break even the most esoteric and fragile of contraptions, and could understand and (possible) fix almost any item whose functioning isn't entirely magical. Hell, sometimes you can even get simple First Age antiquities on their feet, without the help of a savant. You regularly posit ingenious solutions and designs, and your genuine flashes of inspiration border on wonder-working. You'd become renown in any profession you applied yourself to, and could make a killing as a tinker under some Scavenger Lord's patronage. As a professional, you'd produce goods of very high quality indeed.


Craft 5:  You could handle otherworldly First Age wonders without fear of damaging them, and regularly manage to fix simple wonders of that long gone age. You are a walking repository of mechanical inclination, and great cities sometimes beg for you to come and examine the First Age infrastructure, in the hopes you could plan repairs. Savants come to you in hopes you can puzzle out the function of items with no recorded function or history, and few leave disappointed. In a profession you could produce the highest quality goods made by mortal hands, and your wares would make stunning gifts fit for the likes of the Perfect, Deathlords, or the Empress herself (were she still about to receive them.)


With that robust and broad range of skill established, it's obvious that this isn't Craft from the core book. It's something more, and then entirely less. The way in which a storyteller seeking to employ my system needs to see craft is free of canonical rating usage. Craft 5 (Weaponsmith) in canon would be a legendarily good weaponsmith, but s/he should not be allowed to work at repairing silk, building a ship, or in a more esoteric example, hybridizing rare plants of the Dragon Kings, even at reduced dice pool. I handle professions differently, and this is the key to seeing how my system is a compromise between the multiple craft solution of the canon game and the there-is-ONLY-craft solution + specialties others have posited.


Professions


Professions are a modification to specialties that I have devised to be the new root for professional, specialized training in any given 'craft.' They only go to 4, and represent training in a specific profession. (They remind me of 'certifications' in Star Wars Galaxies, though after closer examination I can't really tell why. ) No comprehensive list could be created, such is the myriad nature of the Second Age, but professions range from the normal and common (Tailoring, Armorsmithing, Architecture) to the forgotten, exotic, or forbidden (Dragon King Herbology, First Age Weapon, Soulsteel, Fleshcraft) The xp cost of professions is 3 for the first point, 6 for the second, 9 for the third, and 12 for those rare few with the fourth. These costs are halved, rounded up, for Twilight Caste Solars and others, where appropriate. The system for professions is as follows:


Profession 1 [apprentice]: With this level of training in a given craft, you are highly unskilled and largely dependant upon your master (or if you've misplaced your master, someone better trained. Or your just largely useless. :D  ) You know how to make some things related to your craft, usually poorly, but have gained the necessary basics required to one day become a genuine craftsman in your chosen profession. [All Craft rolls made at -1 die. Storytellers should disallow or further penalize difficult or esoteric crafting attempts.]


Profession 2 [adept]: With this level of training in a given craft, you are a handy assistant who can be trusted to maintain the production quota of the workshop in your master's absence. You understand all but the most esoteric and difficult aspects of your profession, and your skills are only limited by your overall level of mechanical inclination (your Craft rating.) You could go into business for yourself, and depending on your overall craftiness, might make a very good living. [No dice penalties for most rolls. At the storyteller’s discretion, as for most other skills, trying to create exotic items or use rare materials might carry a penalty.]


Profession 3 [master]: You are a master of your craft. Rich merchants pay well for their children to be your apprentices, and your wares are regarded to be peer to almost any mortal craftsman, and thus are quite valuable. You and your like are the living heart of commerce in this Age of Sorrows, well respected by the Guild and others who live on commerce. [+1 die on Craft rolls. May now, at the storyteller’s discretion, specialize further in Craft, for instance, an Armorsmith might be singularly famed for skill at horse barding. I would not let players get carried away though. Personally, I think they would have to focus to an absurd degree to warrant even a 1 point specialty.]


Profession 4 [legendary]: Your work is nearly the ideal perfection of your craft. Your name is spoken of with awe, or whispered in fear. You re-define your craft with each experiment you undertake, and very often manage to improve it with methodology lesser minds could never have imagined. You might enjoy the patronage of those crafter gods who oversee your chosen work, and no doubt your work is often an equal to theirs. The wealthiest of guild factors buy their children and favored grandchildren apprenticeships, if you can even be bothered with such a thing. If your profession is even reasonably lucrative then you are wealthy beyond the aspirations of the lowly apprentice you once resembled. The other great powers of the world might well have designs for you, depending on your craft, and if you are mortal, you had best ingratiate yourself to favorable powers-that-be, lest one of the dangerous forces playing at this broken world steal you away as their new favorite toy. [+2 die on Craft rolls. Even in the First Age, crafters with this level of skill, mortal or otherwise, were valued more than their weight in Orichalcum. Given time to work, this legendary crafter may help bring about the forgotten heights this craft enjoyed in that forgotten age. Or, in some profession's case (think Soulsteel) help being about the final annihilation the craft exists to facilitate.      


The most important thing, in my mind, to appreciating this system is how robust Craft becomes at higher ranks, by corollary how rare higher ranks should be, and further how rare master and legendary professionals are. Your average mortal artisan has Craft 2 and is rated as an adept in his chosen profession. Some few in any given population will be masters, usually the centers of their commodity or profession’s business in the city or region. Many master artisan have Craft 3, though not all, a few have 4. Craft 5 professionals would be as rare as Sidereals, and would work wonders by the Second Age’s standards. That is something my system (and thus my vision of Craft in my game) emphasizes, and I use the die bonus’s from professions to facilitate: Craft 4 and 5 are rare, and most mortals never develop that level of mechanical inclination, largely because they don’t need to. They instead become masters in one given field. Craft 4 and 5 are really the provision of professional tinkers and non-mortals, be they Twilight Caste, crafter gods and demons, Sidereals, etc.


Well, I could write a bit more on the subject, but for now I think this is sufficient for initial C&C.


Regards,


~Griggori
 
My alternative rules for Crafts (and Lingustics) have been explained here.


-S
 
I had read over your idea after already codifying my own, Still, and I am sure it's helpful and tidy. I don't necessarily like it over my own, however. Even though mine is clearly more complex (than some people would probably like,) I like the xp costs. Crafts are so robust and world shaping (or at least I think they should be, and I try to reflect them to be in my world) that I think buying them should cost a wee bit more than 3xp per craft. Some might argue that my system costs too much for non-Twilight types, but how many mortals or creatures that don't get xp and time reductions to Craft really develop that many separate professions? Very few, and those who did spent a good amount of time doing it, and therefore a good amount of xp.


What do you think of my overall solution and system?
 
Griggori said:
What do you think of my overall solution and system?
What's the exact relationship between Crafts and Professions? I don't get it.


Also, why does it only go to four? That's a number that's virtually unused in Exalted mechanics.


-S
 
I have to say, Stillborn, I'm a little disapointed. I thought my post was well layed out, well enough that had you read it you could not possible ask that question, or be completely confused. Professions are a class of specialties, ranging to four, but usually only going to three. Think three with a super-rare four.  Craft is a skill measuring overall mechanical aptitude and ingenuity. Professions are used to represent a characters training in a special craft, and these subsume all previous multi-facteted craft skills. Craft: Soulsteel, Tailoring, Metalworking, Weaponsmithing, Armoursmithing, Manse, First Age Weapon, Warstrider, etc are all professions under my system. If you were to try to craft anything in which you are uninitiated (no profession ranks) you are at a -3 penalty, if now worse (storyteller discression).


Hopefully if you reared it you'll 'get it', and them maybe we can start a critique and tweaking in light of larger board participation.


BTW, I fucking love your Avatar. I laughed my ass off when I first got on here and saw it. I need me a decent avatar.
 
Sorry, I admit that I just skimmed it the first time.


It's a fine system. I suppose my only comment would the the one you predicted: it's overly complex for my tastes.


-S
 
I have to agree with Still.  I prefer to let folks take more specializations to show that they're really good Blacksmiths or Carpenters. But then again, I've done away with the Rule of Three for Specializations anyway. Between Linguistics, Craft, Lore, Larceny, it is a bit limiting. Especially given the scope of these Abilities. I don't use the differing Craft Ability for every damn thing down the pike either.


You have Craft, you're good with your hands. You can apply that to mechanics, carpentry, and pottery.  I'd rather see folks concentrate their XP's elsewhere, than just getting that extra dot in Craft: Siege Engines.  Instead, they can apply both Craft and Warfare and get the same result. Or Craft and Larceny to forge something. Or Craft and Ride to make a better saddle.  Heck, Craft and Performance to take a look at the acoustics of a room to improve them, instead of Craft: Opera Houses...
 
Cool Jakk. I figured a lot of people handles Crafts like that, but he gamer aspect of me, which strives for a system more closely representing the complexities of life (either real of fictional) likes it being deeper than one skill and some (canonically handled) specialties. I see what your using, and my system may be a little complex at first, but overall, in itself, what do you think of the system?
 
I dislike the idea of penalties for early Professional status.  


It runs counter to the basic d10 system--you get a dot in something, you get a bonus. Period. That's an integral part of the system. You DON'T have a dot in something, you can take a penalty, as well as just run on a straight Attribute check, or it's just not possible.


The ST can assign higher difficulties if the feel that the task is more complex than the character's trained for, but the system doesn't go for scaled risers like you've got.  


The idea of specializations to assist Crafters--call them what you want--is good. You can take a Craft 3 artisan, and with a few dots in Blacksmith, you've got a guy that's good with his hands, but give him +4 dots with his specialization, and you've got something special. Call them Professions or what-not, but don't give into the idea of scaled risers for competence--this is still a d10 based system. KISS is your watchword--especially with only 25 Abilities.


If you get a dot in something, you should never take a penalty for it.  Spend XP, you get something in return.  Spend the point to be Professional Blacksmith, then you are at least a competent Blacksmith's assistant, know your way around a shop, which tongs go for which size of iron, which nais go for what.  You are thus, a Professional. Maybe a lowly one, maybe not greatly skilled, but you still have competence.  +1 die to Craft in that area, straight up for each dot in that Profession.


Level One--Apprentice. You are new to the trade, but you are better acquainted with the tools of a particular trade than most.  You can perform the basic tasks that your Master assigns.


Level Two-Journeyman. You have compelted most of your training, and now must make a name for yourself. You are skilled, competent, and eager to show the world your trade.


Level Three--Master. You are a master at your Craft. While others may talk about their work, you can show your expertise in cold iron, turn raw wood into objects of beauty, or carve stone into polished ballustrades.


Level Three--Legendary. Not just a Master, you have surpassed even those who taught you your trade. You are a savant at your craft, intuitive, skilled, and at heart an artist with your tools and designs.


Seriously. At Craft 4, and 3 points of Specializations for say Smithing, or 3 points of Professions, whatever you call it doesn't matter--you get a gal who who has 7 die, plus the Ability, without Charms included.  That's impressive enough.


Ditch your riser system. Scaled risers aren't Exalted. Let the D20 system keep them, or ICE Rolemaster.
 
Well Jakk, it was rather because the bonuses became too large that I didn't like the idea of direct linear progression, though it's certainly not a bad idea. The reason, in my mind, that ther -1 for apprentice isn't really a negative is because to try to craft without any trining in that field is a -3 for me, if not more.


Glittering Fox wants to craft a claymore, but hasn't ever more than looked at an anvil. Good with her hands and more than a little ingenious (craft 4) she still can't even begin to understand the rudiments of crafting a sword, thus she is at a -4 to her attempt (extra +1 cause a Claymore is an exceedingly big and difficult project. Imagine how crooked and bent it might turn out.) Even a few months in training (Profession: Apprentice Weaponsmith) would reduce this steep deficit to a -1.


So, while I see your point, I isn't true that the player is getting nothing for their experience spending. They are getting bonus dice, in the form of reduced penalties. You still might not like it, and that's fine, but I never liked specialties adding dice at a 1:1. Those pools just get too ungainly, and I wanted them to be reasonable (if high) for mortal use. Mortal's rolling 11 dice (4 stm + 4 craft + 3 profession) seems a bit excessive, and that mortal isn't even as nastified as they get. In that system, professions become like another ability that gets added to the craft roll... and I distinctly didn't want that.  


But in fairness I need to think on what you said a bit.
 
The dice pool progression is exactly why the designers went for 3 dots in Specializations in the first place, to limit dice monkeys.


Me, I don't mind seeing Mortals who are really good at something. Especially when most folks don't have 2 dots in anything, and three dots is considered damn fine, you're not looking at crazy pools for most folks--but for those who are really good, it makes some sense that they ought to be able to back that up.


d10 isn't a system about scaled progression. It's pretty damn linear. That's the point. The difference between one dot and three dots in something is huge. The idea is legendary scale. Big themes. Big heroes. Big. BIG!  Exalted isn't about realistic combat simulations, or about accurately mirroring much about real life--it's about telling grand tales of High Adventure. About creating myths and mythic heroes. Mythic Heroes ARE that big and bad. Let them be that. Even Gilgamesh's mortal pal Ekindidu was a bad ass mofo. Don't sell your Mortals short.  Let them be that big, let them be that legendary.


Your example--Glittering Fox has Craft 4?  She is more than engenious, she's already better at basic crafts than most Masters. If you roll out with the multiple Crafts, this isn't much of a problem--she gets to pick up Craft: Weapon Smith and roll out from there, with some tiny pools. If you roll on the principle of Craft being like Larceny, and encompassing pretty much everything, then Glittering Fox has some knowledge, actually a lot with Craft 4, about metalworking.


I think that the multiple Crafts idea falls aside when you roll out with Performance, Larceny, and Lore. There are too many Abilities that are so wide open to keep rolling out with multiple Crafts in my mind. You have Craft, you have the basics of using tools, and the idea of load stresses, material strengths, and how things fit together. Be that in carpentry, metal working, cabinet making, or building bridges. That's how I run it at least--because the multiple Crafts presented make a LOT of paperwork, and in light of Larceny and Lore, it just doesn't make that much sense.


I also prefer to run games with the characters being Mythic Heroes, so I let them have that, so that they can BE Mythic Heroes. Up to you though.
 
The Ten Crafts


Like many players of Exalted, I’ve always been just a bit wary of the open-ended Crafts Ability. With little guidance concerning what is and is not an acceptable Crafts Ability, I’ve found that my players come up with all kinds of crazy shit: from the incredibly vague and broad-based to the painstakingly specific and specialized. As such, I’ve created a series of ten Crafts Abilities that will ALWAYS be acceptable in my games.


These Ten Crafts are divided into two categories: means-based Crafts, and ends-based Crafts. The five means-based Crafts are each dedicated to specific groups of materials. Those that possess these Crafts can use them to make just about ANY items which can be made out of the appropriate material. The five ends-based Crafts are based on finished products. Those that possess these Crafts can use them to make appropriate products, regardless of the materials out of which they are made.


Before I begin listing the Crafts, it should be noted that the Ten Crafts represent those Crafts most often practiced by MORTALS. Fair Folk, ghosts, demons, and Exalted surely have specialized Crafts of their own falling WELL outside the boundaries of any of these ten. That said, those very same beings surely practice these Crafts as well. This list is not mean to be EXHAUSTIVE – there’s bound to be plenty of skills that are clearly Crafts but do not fall under any of these Ten.


Without further ado, the Ten Crafts:


Means-based Crafts



The means-based Crafts fit into five broad skills: Farmcraft, Textile/Leathercraft, Woodcraft, Metalcraft, and Earthcraft.


Farmcraft is the Craft of living things, and is by far the single most commonly practiced Craft in all of Creation. It includes agriculture, gardening, botany, forestry, animal husbandry, slaughtering/butchery, and just about any other Craft Ability that deals with growing and preparing living things to be made into product. An individual skilled in Farmcraft can grow all sorts of useful plants and prepare them to be turned into valuable product. Similarly, such an individual can breed, raise, and prepare live animals for sale. Once a tree has been felled, a crop has been harvested, or an animal has been slaughtered, however, what happens to the resource is beyond the purview of this Craft.


Textile/Leathercraft is the Craft of woven plant fibers and tanned animal hides. It can be used to turn plant fibers into string, weave string into cloth, and turn cloth into functional garments, upholstery, sails, and just about anything else that can be made of cloth. Paper is also made using this Craft. The Leathercraft half of this Craft is used for skinning animals and turning that skin into workable leather. It can also be used to fashion that leather into clothing, tents, armor, or anything else that can be made of leather.


Woodcraft allows a skilled craftsman to make any sort of item that can be made out of wood. The craft is also used to fell trees and prepare lumber for working. Weapons, armor, furniture, buildings, ships, wagons, and a host of other items can be made using this Craft, provided the items are to be made entirely or almost entirely out of wood. A Woodcrafter can make a sailing ship, but a Textile Crafter is needed to make the sails, and a Metalcrafter may be needed to make many of the ship’s fittings. Woodcraft may also be used to make items out of animal bone, antler, and horn, as these substances are worked in a fashion similar to that of wood.


Metalcraft
is to metal what woodcraft is to wood. The Craft is equally useful for mining, smelting, and refining metal as it is for actually shaping metal into a finished product. As with Woodcraft, the items that can be made using Metalcraft are many and varied, but they must be made entirely or almost entirely out of metal. Four of the Five Magical Metals (excluding Jade) ARE considered metal for the purposes of this Craft, although OTHER skills and knowledge are required to create, refine, or work them with any real skill.


Earthcraft covers all non-metal material mined or derived from the earth. These materials include stone, clay, glass, and Jade. The Craft is useful in mining and preparing these materials, as well as for fashioning them into finished products. Obviously working Jade into anything more complicated that currency is likely to require additional skills and knowledge, and it is worth noting that the special properties Jade acquires in the Underworld render this Craft all but useless for shaping it there (ghosts have their own specialized Craft for working Jade).


Those are your five means-based Crafts. As you can see, each one can be used to perform an incredibly wide variety of tasks, but is limited in the resources used in the performance of those tasks. At Storyteller discretion, these Crafts may also be used to make or repair simple tools used in the practice of the Craft. There is some overlap between Crafts, but not much. However, these Crafts and the ends-based Crafts overlap considerably more, as you will soon see.


Ends-based Crafts


Like the means-based Crafts, the ends-based Crafts are divided into five skills: Armorsmithing, Weaponsmithing, Shipbuilding, Architecture, and Engineering.


Armorsmithing is used, quite obviously, to create armor. While most think of metal when they think of armor, armor can also be made of wood, bone, leather, or even thick cloth. Any sort of protective garment or covering can be made using this Craft. This Craft is also explicitly useful in making shields, and though it cannot be used to BUILD ships, wagons, or buildings, it can be used to bolster such items against physical damage.


Weaponsmithing
is to weapons as armorsmithing is to armor, and is certainly one of the most popular Crafts in the violent and turbulent Age of Sorrows. It is used for making weapons of all sorts. Swords, axes, bows, arrows, spears, etc. . . . any sort of weapon a man can dream up can be made using weaponsmithing, regardless of the material out of which the weapon is made. This Craft specifically EXCLUDES the ability to make catapults, ballistae, or other large siege weapons, as these fall under the Engineering Crafts Ability. It is used mainly to create weapons designed to be wielded by a single person in combat. Obviously the Craft can also be used to make weapon-like tools such as wood axes and carving knives.


Shipbuilding covers the construction of not just ships, but of all things nautical. An individual with this Craft can design and build not only ships, but also sails, rigging, and oars. The Craft includes some general skill at carpentry and may be used to build other, shiplike items (like wagons or simple homes), but with greater difficulty. An individual with this Craft will also be able to make several items commonly associated with nautical vessels, such as barrels, cranes, and gangplanks.


Architecture is the Craft of permanent structures – both their design and their construction. This Craft is not exclusively limited to actual buildings, but also includes bridges, dams, canals, roads, and free-standing walls and fences. Architecture also includes the skills landscaping and interior design, and though an architect is unable to MAKE furniture or GROW plants, he is able to place them to best serve a given purpose or artistic vision. As with all ends-based Crafts, the materials out of which the items are made matters not – merely that they fit within this broad category of finished products.


Engineering is probably one of the least-practiced Crafts of the Second Age, and is simultaneously (or perhaps consequently) one of the most valued. Engineering is the Craft of complex machinery. It does overlap somewhat with both Shipbuilding and Architecture, but someone desiring a seaworthy sailing vessel or defensible fortress is better off seeking specialists in those fields, as an engineer’s designs, while grand, are likely to be far less practical (and thereby of lesser usefulness). Engineering is used in the creation of siege engines, wagons and carriages, clocks, firewands, and all sorts of items featuring a number of complex and/or delicate moving parts. This Craft requires considerable attention to detail, and the items made using it tend not to be terribly useful to the average mortal. Still, the world would be in poor shape without its engineers.


Well, there are your Ten Crafts. As with the means-based Crafts,  Storytellers may choose to allow these Crafts to be used to make or repair simple tools used in the practice of the Craft. The ends-based ones have a little more overlap than the means-based ones, I think . . . but I certainly don’t have a problem with that. One particular bonus of this system is that if you possess all five Crafts in either category, you’ve pretty much got 90% of your bases covered. Sure, there’s a few things that don’t seem to properly fall into any of these skills, but such things are generally the sorts of Crafts that wouldn’t come up terribly often in-game anyway.
 
A new approach


The best treatment of Craft I've seen also addresses the semi-uselessnes of Sail at the same time. It also deals with the abiguity of Craft meaning "things you can make" (Painting) and "things you know" (Farming). It's on the wiki.
 
Well, I know Griggori IRL and play with him, and the system seems solid for the feel and tone of Crafts it is geared towards.


For one, we all know the epic rate of combat, but all but the most exceptional mortals are NOT at this epic level. The same should go with crafting. Only the MOST trained mortal should even have a chance of fixing first age stuff, dicepools without penalties under the current system allow for some appreciable dicepools, even for mortals.


The complexity of the system is, IMHO, not too much. Especially for an out of combat system. Crafting (or fixing) something should not be rushed to a simple roll for the sake of loosing the tone or balance of the skill.


This really just says trade skills are hard. Sure, other things may be equally as hard, but just because Im a tinker with craft 4 doesnt mean I should be able to forge a master weapon at par with even the local mortal blacksmith who does so for a living. "Craft" encompasses too much, and instead of breaking down the skill such as "farmcraft/earthcraft/metalcraft" griggori chose to apply a negative dice pool modifier to non-specialized skills. Thus, a tinker has a shot at forging a weapon, an even better shot if he has dabbled in it before, but he will not be a professional by any means.


Negatives to dicepools are not beyond the realm of complexity for a smooth game, especially out of combat.


I can see the arguement of alternate rules to this, or not following the tone, but as a house rule I really dont see this as too much to grasp.
 
It's the idea of paying out XP for reduced chances of success that is at the core of my disliking the mechanic.  


As for Crafts being too wide? Take a look at Larceny. Melee. Lore. Even Linguistics or Performance.  


It's y'all's table, and if you like it, then ride on, but I can't say I'm much of a fan of the idea.
 

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