Halting the Scarlet Flow

[riven5]

See subject.


I've been reading the Lunar charms a lot recently, but this one continues to interest me.  2m+ is the listed activation cost, so am I to believe that it costs a mere 2 motes to fully heal a lethal wound?  It just doesn't seem right.  Not only does it appear overpowered, but it's just not terribly in theme with Exalted.  While Lunars used to have a very capable regenerative gift that healed 1 lethal and all bashing every turn, I felt that THAT was a bit overpowered.  Yet being able to heal ALL lethal wounds for the low low price of 2 motes a piece?  I must be misreading it.

 

[Persell]

The stat block is a major cut and paste error from Bruise Relief Method. It looks like it lets you heal X lethal wounds with 2X motes and a reflexive action. But the text itself only allows for one wound and requires a simple action.  We follow the text version.


That means it still costs 2 motes, which is definitely cheap, but it's not really a combat charm anymore.

 

[tjcoonrod]

I do believe it is also a 'gift' charm, although they do not text what specifics it does like the other gift charms (typo or missing perhaps, another victim of WW editing?)


If you read bruise relief method for its gift effects, I think it works the same - if the Lunar has DBT and activates it as a gift, then they auto heal 1 Lethal every action! That really makes it a combat charm in my book. And a bit overpowered I think, the cost should be more (both for single use and as a gift).

 

[Persell]

Here's what some official and unoficial people have said at the wiki.

 

[riven5]

Cool, thanks.  Glad to see I'm not the only person that finds it a little ridiculous.  I modified it for my campaign so that it is a simple charm, but when used with DBT you may commit 6 motes and heal 1 lethal wound every turn.  


Just kind of feels more balanced.


I'm currently using it that way on a Lunar who is fighting a Solar PC in a gladiatorial tournament, so I'll let you all know how it turns out.

 

[Lord Ben]

It's been how many months now and they STILL haven't gave an official answer how to do regen with that gift?  Goodness....

 

[Persell]

You know, the last post in here was a mere month ago and there is official word about it, it is just not a totally offical FAQ.

 

[Lord Ben]

Is it the same thing where they just have suggested options for handling it?  I just wish the company would put out an errata after issues are raised.  How hard would it be to just pick an option and make it official.

 

[Persell]

I think you are grossly underestimating how much time/manpower a properly done FAQ takes. They are a company, the book works without the FAQ and therefore they concentrate on projects that actually have a chance of earning them money. Of course I'd like to see erratae, too, but it is just not very realistic.

 

[Vanman]

You know, the last post in here was a mere month ago and there is official word about it, it is just not a totally offical FAQ.

Where can this official word be found, then?

 

[Persell]

Official Wiki -> Lunars Manual -> Open Questions -> Halting the Scarlet Flow


Basically the link james was so kind to post. The first possible solution is by a guy called Peter Schaefer, who wrote the lunar charmset. I think that is as official as I need ^^

 

[Dracogryff]

It's actually the second listed solution, but yeah, it's close enough to official for me, too. Though I do rule that you don't get the (Stamina) Bashing if you activate both BRT and HSF, you just get one and one.


I'm also considering house ruling it to you heal one every five/six ticks instead of every action. Doesn't make sense that the Moonsilver Grand Daiklaive user heals slower than the guy using a Jade Short Daiklaive, or similar. Means more paperwork though...but since I've got a player who's already abusing the gift charms in the one game I'm running, I'm trying to limit the impact it has. His character already made an army immune to damage once. x.x

 

[Unforgiven]

Yeah, I was also a little puzzled about the charm, when does it activate, how can you activate it ?


I was also a little puzzled, since the deadly beastman transformation doesn't say what it costs to activate gifts. They have a little section at the beginning which is very vague which just states they can be activated when deadly beastman is active. I'm asuming you can activate them without them costing a charm use or something ?


Also, since most gift charms have special rules mentioned THEMSELVES, while others do not, I think it's very confusing..


On the issue whether it's balanced or not. Healing 1L every turn would probably not even be that unbalanced, since it still costs essence (I think?) and you'd have to put in a little effort to keep regeneration it..


also, in combination with the armor charms, it wouldn't be that much different from a 1st edition lunar. Though I guess it would be easier to achieve, since the 1st edition lunar would need 4 gifts and a reinforced breastplate to simulate the effects... hmmm..

 

[Dracogryff]

Yeah, I was also a little puzzled about the charm, when does it activate, how can you activate it ?

Gift OK charms are activated when you shapeshift into your war form. They can't be activated except as Charms at any other point. For Halting the Scarlet Flow, I take notes from Bruise Relief, and infer that it costs 3M to activate as a Gift and heals 1L an action. Pretty simple. That's the nearly official answer as well.

I was also a little puzzled, since the deadly beastman transformation doesn't say what it costs to activate gifts. They have a little section at the beginning which is very vague which just states they can be activated when deadly beastman is active. I'm asuming you can activate them without them costing a charm use or something ?
Also, since most gift charms have special rules mentioned THEMSELVES, while others do not, I think it's very confusing..

It's called bad editing, and not enough proofreading. The way it works, though, you spend the motes necessary to activate it as a Gift (if it doesn't specify otherwise, it's assumed to be the same as activating it normally) to activate it at the same time you use the Knack Deadly Beastman Transformation, and they go up as part of the Knack. The upshot is they don't count as a Charm use (as you guessed), and don't need to be comboed with each other to be activated in this fashion.


However, you can't activate them as Gifts outside that one action. But, they stay up as long as you're in your war form, and there's no limit to how many you can activate (other than how many motes you're willing to spend) when you shift into war form. So, pretty nice.


Those that don't specify how they work (either Fury or Gift) are usually inherently obvious, or oversights. The FAQ has a lot of questions like that, and it's generally answered with the assumption that it generally does what it says it does otherwise, but for the duration of Fury/time in war form. It's a good place to look if you're not sure, though.

On the issue whether it's balanced or not. Healing 1L every turn would probably not even be that unbalanced, since it still costs essence (I think?) and you'd have to put in a little effort to keep regeneration it..
also, in combination with the armor charms, it wouldn't be that much different from a 1st edition lunar. Though I guess it would be easier to achieve, since the 1st edition lunar would need 4 gifts and a reinforced breastplate to simulate the effects... hmmm..

*shrugs* I personally never questioned the balance. I just say that it shouldn't change the effects of Bruise Relief Technique if they're activated at the same time. Nothing else does so, and there's no real logical reason why it should change, IMO. And no, aside from the 3M cost when you shift into Beastman, it no longer costs to heal that lethal, it just happens every action. You could use the Charm (as a Charm use, so it'd have to be Comboed and all that if you wanted to use other Charms too) while you have it activated as a Gift to heal more Lethal levels, but the 1L an action is free once it's up. (Unless you use RRimmel's house ruling on it, which I don't *points at the FAQ for clarification*)


And yeah, Lunars finally live up to their reputation for being really sick soak monkeys. 'Bout time. *chuckles* in 1E they couldn't get half so sick because of all the caps that they had on how much soak they could get (12L/12B was usually the max they could give themselves)...


Oh, and there aren't turns in 2E, unless you subscribe to wordman's 'action' clarifications. It's 1L an action. And mainly the only reason I'd make it a static number of ticks is that it isn't really logical that the guy who uses a Jade Short Daiklaive should heal twice as fast as the guy using a Moonsilver Grand...or can you provide a good, reasonable explanation for why two creatures using the exact same Knack and Gift should heal at different speeds? The weapon shouldn't affect that...yet it does as written.

 

[Unforgiven]

Oh, and there aren't turns in 2E, unless you subscribe to wordman's 'action' clarifications. It's 1L an action. And mainly the only reason I'd make it a static number of ticks is that it isn't really logical that the guy who uses a Jade Short Daiklaive should heal twice as fast as the guy using a Moonsilver Grand...or can you provide a good, reasonable explanation for why two creatures using the exact same Knack and Gift should heal at different speeds?

Yeah, I noticed that being mentioned as well, and it's quite illogical indeed. I would also make it a fixed speed.


Though I think there's this charm which speeds up all the lunar's actions right ? not just combat related. I guess I would allow that to be used in order to speed up regeneration, but it's doubtful at best indeed.

 

[Dracogryff]

Yeah, there is Wasp Sting Blur. If it were made a separate speed, I would probably agree with you that the charm could be used to speed it up, though that would be mote intensive. 2m per tick you wanted to reduce it (minimum of 3), each time around...yeah.


Though if it worked that way, then Fury would speed it up a tick for the duration if you activated it that way...could be interesting to see how it balanced. I must consider this.

 

[Coyotekin]

Proof yet again that Lunars are bad ass.