Gender Equality

[The Gunrunner]

"Feminism is the belief that equality can be achieved by focusing on half of the problem."


^thats meant to be a little line for my incoming question. It's not my line. It was made by a guy I commonly watch on YouTube. This thread is not based around that video. It was not about (from what I recall) this topic.


My question is this: Should equality groups that focus on male or female rights lose their support, and instead we follow and support groups that claim to focus on both genders?

 

[Vetenskapsman]

I feel like this is really more of a misinterpretation of what "feminism" really means. It's the belief in men and women being treated equally, but people, because of the name, interpret it to strictly focus on the advancement of women (although some supposed "feminists" may misconstrue that in a horribly ironic way). It's called feminism primarily because of it's early association with women's suffrage, etc., but now has come to mean absolute equality in treatment. In any case, I would call myself a feminist and I believe there is some real discrimination against men, though not nearly to the degree to which women are discriminated against. For example, in the United States in 2010 only 17% of the senate was female. The point in that is that women have a longer way to go before they reach equality of treatment with men. My little side-rant to the side, now to actually answer your question: I think we should only support groups that focus on the rights of everyone, but hey, that's what feminism really is, or rather is really supposed to be.

 

[The Gunrunner]

The definition according to google is:


the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.


So yes, it's the equality of women to men but it does not focus on men or have any goal to fight for that side according to the definition. I could be incorrect however, and if so is very much like a link to the agreed description.


As for the rest, it's true that they hold such a shocking minority I the US, Canada, and The UK. The highest is 60% in a country I can't remember. However, I have to ask why or how. It's low even here in Canada, yet, if anyone was openly sexist, you would not have a happy time. I can understand in places like Saudi Arabia or Japan where a woman is simply not considered equal by the majority (Yes, in Japan.) but that isn't the case here. However, I can't find anything to back up my thought so it's nothing but words.


"...I believe there is some real discrimination against men, though not nearly to the degree to which women are discriminated against."


My argument against this: (I can call it more of a double standard, but this can very easily regarded as sexism.) A woman is more likely to receive custody over her children(http://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/08/15/latest-u-s-custody-and-child-support-data/), men having more severe prison sentences than women (http://ftp.iza.org/dp2870.pdf) (http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/1874742/), a man can be abused openly with a public reaction severely dampened compared to a reversal in the gender ([media]



[/media]), and they are not taken as seriously as women in cases involving sexual violence (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender)
This is all real sexism towards men. I'm not saying it's worse for men, I'm saying neither gender is getting a shorter end of the stick in the developed countries I'm assuming most of the people reading this post live in.

 

[cellar.]

Well, "equality" and "equity" are two different things.


Gender equity means giving both genders the same opportunities.


That is different from gender equality, where both genders to be treated the same way.


But yeah, I agree with @Vetenskapsman That is what real feminism is about


...But then you have them feminazis who give feminists a bad rep.

 

[Elwin]

Feminism is about both genders, but it is true that it primarily focuses on women. This is not a bad thing and obviously comes from its historical association. It is not a myth that sexism pretty much effects women the most. This doesn't mean that men are dismissed or that they don't suffer any gender based problems but turning it on its head and holding men's issues as something that effects them as equally as gender effects women is just ridiculous. That is like saying that white people suffer as much as POC's suffer because they may get the odd comment from a POC or a racial stereotype against them. They have not ever been oppressed in anyway just like men haven't been oppressed in history. Oppression on men is often initialized by men themselves!

 

[The Gunrunner]

Well, "equality" and "equity" are two different things.
Gender equity means giving both genders the same opportunities.


That is different from gender equality, where both genders to be treated the same way.

-CrackerPower


I'd dare to say that's the same thing but worded differently. The same opportunities/treated the same way. What's the difference? Also, according to google, this is the definition of equity: "the quality of being fair and impartial."


And equality is: "the state of being equal, especially in status, rights, and opportunities."


So the definitions were also backwards. However, the point remains that in the context of this topic both words mean the same thing.

Feminism is about both genders, but it is true that it primarily focuses on women. This is not a bad thing and obviously comes from its historical association.

-Elwin


Ok 1. I would like for something on a lecture or march or anything they did on male rights. An article, or a recording of what they said, or really anything like that, because I myself know of no attempts from feminists to help the male gender.


2. It's primary goal is women's rights, as you have just said. They do not focus on both equally, based on what I'd read. Maybe it came across the wrong way for me but that's what I saw.


3. "This is not a bad thing..."


I agree that it's not a bad thing to ensure women aren't turned into second class citizens, but I disagree that it's better to focus on that and only have some regard for males. As I had claimed above with the links provided, men have problems that are equal to a woman's. My supporting argument is in the post up there. As I may have forgotten to mention, however, I meant in developed countries.

It is not a myth that sexism pretty much effects women the most.

I disagree here in the context of what I said above. I am speaking of developed countries, excluding Japan. Outside of those, yes absolutely there are serious issues facing women. Here, though, it's a different or at least altered story in my opinion. I feel like I should also go on a tangent and ask that everyone please have a supporting argument for their claims. This comes across as an assertion. There's nothing here except "What you said is false and it's like comparing this to this."

...but turning it on its head and holding men's issues as something that effects them as equally as gender effects women is just ridiculous. That is like saying that white people suffer as much as POC's suffer because they may get the odd comment from a POC or a racial stereotype against them. They have not ever been oppressed in anyway just like men haven't been oppressed in history.

Men have been oppressed in history while women were oppressed. Men were drafted. They were expected to fight in all the wars, up until recently. World war 2 was fought mainly (if not purely) by males. We weren't sitting around eating cherries while a woman cleaned the house. Yes, I know women were not considered equal at the time. However, to say men were free from oppression, or an unwanted experience because they were men is debatable.


I think we can also agree that witnessing a racial steriotype being performed by an African American/Asian/Hispanic comedian of a white man, is not the same as being in jail for more time because you were born with a penis. As for saying that Caucasians have never ever ever ever ever been oppressed, I decided to be lazy and just drop a yahoo answers link: https://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100505010838AAdnK2f


Because I don't know enough about these events to talk about them.

Oppression on men is often initialized by men themselves!

True. Around 27% of judges in the US are female and 23% in England (from 2012) However that's still a problem faced by men. I can take 'sexism' off, but the problems above were still problems that men face in developed countries. Not women. That video was in the US, and I've heard that happens in England with the same reaction. The custody problem is in the US and I know for a fact here in Canada. Sexual abuse is not taken seriously with a man and as the link says, 9% of trials involving sexual abuse that end with a conviction had a man that was raped. 9%. This stuff is on the level of a racist joke? Anyways, my point is that even though men are punishing men, these are problems MEN face. That is why I called it sexism, although it admittedly wasn't appropriate considering what you'd said.


P.S. I keep saying in developed countries because those are the places I'm talking about.

 

[Elwin]

How can a member from a group of privilege be oppressed by the oppressed? It doesn't make sense. Women can be prejudiced against men, yes. But men do not suffer sexism if it is men that cause men's problems! In regards to your point about being forced into war; that was a time when women had their roles and men had their roles. I am not saying that justifies anything but again, women had less rights and less power because they were women. Men had more power and were thought of as the stronger of the genders therefore they went into war. This is not right, but this again initialized by men themselves and is a stereotype and expectation of men that they created!<p><a href="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2014_07/feminism.png.19c04859bab44b7d8204f2e3135046f5.png" class="ipsAttachLink ipsAttachLink_image"><img data-fileid="22843" src="<fileStore.core_Attachment>/monthly_2014_07/feminism.png.19c04859bab44b7d8204f2e3135046f5.png" class="ipsImage ipsImage_thumbnailed" alt=""></a></p>

 

[Lady Sabine]

My opinion is that, ideally, human rights would be completely independent of race, sex, gender, religion, etc. However, since this world is far from ideal, I don't see a problem with groups that focus on the issues of one section of society, as long as their agenda does not include oppression of anyone else.


Feminism's benefits to men are secondhand. However, there are still benefits. Very few feminists, or their practices, are actually in any way harmful to men. Mainstream feminism can be compared to mainstream black advocacy- the focus on equality means that the overall goal is for conditions to be good (or excellent) for everyone. No one's going to argue for equality if the standard for the empowered group's standards are low.


As for sexism against men, while it does exist, it is much more limited. Most men will never experience anything more than mild to moderate sexism a few times in their life. Women will almost certainly experience moderate to severe sexism several times per year, or more often depending on the region she lives in.


Personally, I think a lot of the issue is rooted in Western culture's habit of linking males to the masculine gender and females to the feminine. While both sexes and both genders are great, having a penis doesn't necessarily make a person a man and/or 'masculine', while having a vagina doesn't equal a feminine woman. This is a problem that faces everyone equally- and it's not strictly limited to sex and gender. Stereotypes in and of themselves aren't hurtful, but when we expect people to conform to any preconceived notion it can make life difficult for anyone seeking to break away from cultural norms.

 

[cellar.]

@The Gunrunner


Well, they're very close words, but they aren't the same.


Like, women and men are physically different. You can't expect women to work the same amount of hours as men, due to the whole maternity leave thing. But that doesn't mean that women can't hold the same positions as men in a work place.


They aren't treated the same because they aren't the same. However, they still have the same rights.


I'm not sure if that's a good example, but I kind of hope you get my point?

 

[The Gunrunner]

How can a member from a group of privilege be oppressed by the oppressed? It doesn't make sense.

Good thing we're not privileged then. Also, when did I say it was women that were responsible for the gender problems I mentioned above?

Women can be prejudiced against men, yes. But men do not suffer sexism if it is men that cause men's problems!

I took back calling those examples sexism. I said that. I said that sexism isn't the appropriate word. I said it twice. You can find the second time at the end of my previous post.

In regards to your point about being forced into war; that was a time when women had their roles and men had their roles. I am not saying that justifies anything but again, women had less rights and less power because they were women. Men had more power and were thought of as the stronger of the genders therefore they went into war.

The go of this for me was mainly to exploit or point out the problem with the statement you made that men have 'never been oppressed in history.' That is going way too far. "Women have been oppressed more than men" would have worked. I would have agreed, but that's not at all what you said.

This is not right, but this again initialized by men themselves and is a stereotype and expectation of men that they created!

Well you're right, it isn't sexism. I said that.


And then a feminist page on the patriarchy and how men should support feminism, because men being in power to oppress women oppresses men in the process.


The femenist definition of patriarchy according to google is: "an unjust social system that is oppressive to women. In feminist theory the concept of patriarchy often includes all the social mechanisms that reproduce and exert male dominance over women.Definition and usage."


A system designed to oppress women and hold male dominance also has men be more likely to lose their kids. Oh wait it mentions that. It's BECAUSE of the patriarchy that men are more likely to lose their kids. Well, then it isn't a patriarchy. A system made to make men dominate women wouldn't have men take longer jail times than women, it would be the other way around. They wouldn't lose their kids, women would. Most of all they wouldn't be hit in public by a woman as people walk on by. They wouldn't have scenes of women hitting men in movies, but the other way around.


This claim is ridiculous, and another reason feminism has it's bad reputation. Because they claim there's a patriarchy, and we're oppressing ourselves. It's BECAUSE men are sexist that they have this other stuff happen. THAT is offensive, and I'd dare to say I can say that. So, in closing, I don't believe in a patriarchy.


I don't believe in the actual definition either, where men are in power and women are excluded. If it's meant in a way that women aren't in positions of power, I certainly agree, but if it means that women are being kept out on purpose, I disagree. If you think I'm wrong then answer this: We live in a democracy, yes? Why are women allowed to vote if it's a patriarchy. Wouldn't they be excluded?


------------------------------------------

My opinion is that, ideally, human rights would be completely independent of race, sex, gender, religion, etc. However, since this world is far from ideal, I don't see a problem with groups that focus on the issues of one section of society, as long as their agenda does not include oppression of anyone else.

I don't see anything wrong with those groups either, but I'm just curious on which you think would be best.

Feminism's benefits to men are secondhand. However, there are still benefits.

Yes, but they focus on one gender. Actually, what benefits have they given or fought for to help men?

Very few feminists, or their practices, are actually in any way harmful to men.

The belief of a patriarchy is, according to google, a view held by a majority of feminists. The definition that feminists have for it makes a claim that when a man suffers because he's a man, it's his fault because he's part of the system that is now hurting him. A system built around oppressing women and giving privileges to men. It comes across as this incredibly insensitive and offensive statement. .


A system built around oppression.

Mainstream feminism can be compared to mainstream black advocacy...

Modern feminism or in the past? I can't tell if you're comparing it to current black advocacy or past black advocacy. Also, this comparison is really hard to respond to because a woman of any race can be a feminist. I mean, I'm standing where I sort of disagree when I think that other races still suffer more than a white woman in developed countries, but sort of agree because there are feminist members that aren't white. So... I guess I have to agree since feminism has all these people...?

...the focus on equality means that the overall goal is for conditions to be good (or excellent) for everyone.

But it's equality for women. Their focusing on women, as you said. Feminism focuses on rights for women and that's fine but they aren't going to bring equality for all.

As for sexism against men, while it does exist, it is much more limited. Most men will never experience anything more than mild to moderate sexism a few times in their life. Women will almost certainly experience moderate to severe sexism several times per year, or more often depending on the region she lives in.

How do you know?


Anyways it's not sexism but it's still a problem faced only because of their gender (for men.) Yes women have problems as well, and severe ones, but I'm calling some men's problems severe as well.

Personally, I think a lot of the issue is rooted in Western culture's habit of linking males to the masculine gender and females to the feminine.

I agree 100%... I don't know what else to say. I think that was enough.

This is a problem that faces everyone equally- and it's not strictly limited to sex and gender. Stereotypes in and of themselves aren't hurtful, but when we expect people to conform to any preconceived notion it can make life difficult for anyone seeking to break away from cultural norms

That's also true. On the up side, things seam to keep changing, and I at least think that when it comes to equality, we're getting better. Not everywhere, there's still problems, but it seams that we're at least trying.


------------------------------------

Like, women and men are physically different. You can't expect women to work the same amount of hours as men, due to the whole maternity leave thing. But that doesn't mean that women can't hold the same positions as men in a work place.
They aren't treated the same because they aren't the same. However, they still have the same rights.


I'm not sure if that's a good example, but I kind of hope you get my point?

I do. I understand what you mean/meant now. I agree.

 

[Lady Sabine]

http://mic.com/articles/88277/23-ways-feminism-has-made-the-world-a-better-place-for-men[/URL] that website is a bit hokey, but it lists some great examples. Equality and awareness benefit everyone.

The belief of a patriarchy is, according to google, a view held by a majority of feminists. The definition that feminists have for it makes a claim that when a man suffers because he's a man, it's his fault because he's part of the system that is now hurting him. A system built around oppressing women and giving privileges to men. It comes across as this incredibly insensitive and offensive statement. .
A system built around oppression.

Yes, and the antebellum South was a society built around the oppression of blacks. We shouldn't be ashamed of our pasts, we should be looking to brighten our future. There are still ways in which women are oppressed, and still some in which men are. We need to work to tear those walls down, not fight against each other and build more of them.


I'll talk more about equality in a bit.

Modern feminism or in the past? I can't tell if you're comparing it to current black advocacy or past black advocacy. Also, this comparison is really hard to respond to because a woman of any race can be a feminist. I mean, I'm standing where I sort of disagree when I think that other races still suffer more than a white woman in developed countries, but sort of agree because there are feminist members that aren't white. So... I guess I have to agree since feminism has all these people...?

Mainstream black advocacy hasn't undergone a significant change in their tactics or goals since the sixties. I think it applies either way. I'm mainly comparing the fact that very few of us are radical and most of us want what's best for everyone, not just people like us.


You said something that really worries me, though. "A woman of any race can be a feminist"- well, you're not wrong, but men can be feminists too. In fact, practically every man I respect is a feminist. Being a feminist doesn't require a membership card or some kind of "women are superior" attitude. It only requires you to internalize the thought "women should be treated fairly and equally". Heck, from what you've said, I bet you're pretty much a feminist, too. ^^ We aren't radical or strange or unusual. We're just normal people doing normal, common-sense stuff. Being a feminist doesn't mean you have to go to any rallies or even vote a specific way. You just have to think of women as people, the same as all other people. Most citizens of first world countries de facto feminists, even if they don't embrace the label or talk about it.

But it's equality for women. Their focusing on women, as you said. Feminism focuses on rights for women and that's fine but they aren't going to bring equality for all.

Dude, this isn't Animal Farm. You can't be "more equal" than someone. xD Feminism thinks that white women should stand at the same level as white men- which is also the same level as gay black Jewish orphans, transgender Asian gay parents, intersex Amerindian Norse Pagans, etc. Equality for one is equality for all, or else it isn't equality at all. Feminism is about making sure that, while no one stands taller than women, we aren't standing taller than anyone else, either.

How do you know?
Anyways it's not sexism but it's still a problem faced only because of their gender (for men.) Yes women have problems as well, and severe ones, but I'm calling some men's problems severe as well.

Because I live with and around men and do my research? I don't understand the problems of men on the same psychological level that I understand the problems of women, but I still have some understanding. If you think I'm missing something or have resources to help me understand more, feel free to enlighten me. I love learning about social issues and understanding how the other half (which actually applies literally here!) sees the world.


I'm going to say that men's problems are rare to the point where they're unlikely to experience more than a few truly oppressive events in their lifetime. Rape, compulsory military service, and the right to be the primary caretaker for their children. How many men experience all three of those things? How many even experience two? How many experience none at all? For women, we see things like the wage gap and health care gaps. Men's problems can be severe but are generally rare; women find it almost impossible to escape constant moderate to severe problems every day of their lives. Adding it up over time reveals a lot.

I agree 100%... I don't know what else to say. I think that was enough.

Thank you. ^^

That's also true. On the up side, things seam to keep changing, and I at least think that when it comes to equality, we're getting better. Not everywhere, there's still problems, but it seams that we're at least trying.

I agree. This generation is so much better than every generation before us (in recorded history, at least) at being accepting and loving of our fellow human beings. Look at how quickly we've gone from "black people can't vote" to "our president is black". Twenty years ago having an openly gay couple on TV would start a minor riot, right now it only gets an angry letter from One Million Moms. We're moving in the right direction. But I think a big part of moving in the right direction is not tearing down other people that are doing good- MRAs and feminists are both trying to do good in the world. Most of them probably agree on 99.9% of their issues. I think that we should focus more on working together to improve the world for everyone, and less on telling people with the same general goals that "you're doing it wrong". To me, it's like toilet paper rolling over vs. under fights. We both want to wipe the shit off of our asses and get out of the bathroom. Isn't that enough to get along?

 

[TacoMann]

Y'know. I think I might be one of the few cisgendered men who can honestly claim to have experienced Sexism from the both sides of the fence. I'm openly a crossdresser. Not drag. I object to calling it Drag as drag is about performance. (No offense to actual drag-queens because I've known many over the years and almost all of them where quite lovely people.) I work to make a convincing woman of myself, simply because, Its something I enjoy. I fully identify as male, and have fun passing myself off as female, or even living as a woman, because its somewhat liberating. But after about two year of such now, I've started to realize afew things are...different as a woman.


Last Halloween, I was headed home from a party at a girlfriend's house. I left early, due to someone unpleasant showing up. About halfway home, I encountered something I'd never really given pause to before, beyond to call them an asshole. A common belligerent drunk shouting across the road to "TAKE IT OFF BABY~". After awhile of walking, I realized they where headed the same way I was, it wasn't getting quieter like usual. About a minute later, I realized there weren't any women in earshot. The man, and three others, followed me almost half a block, accosting me from across the street to strip. By now, I'm getting scared. Should I tell them to fuck off? Let them know I'm a man? But Trans-panic is something I've encountered, and usually had fun with. I tried to pick up pace and get home abit faster, I then discovered the problem of those sexy-sexy heels we shoehorn our female characters into in damn near every artistic medium. I may be a trained martial artist, but I couldn't run in those things. Let alone keep my balance, kick some ass, and silently strike a Badass Action Girl feminism moment IRL into those morons. I was scared. I wound up taking a bus back to the party, and getting a ride home with a friend. I think this is the first time I've given this story to anyone besides my sister, or my husband...


I thought that would be it, but no. It wasn't. I've also taken to "Crossplay" at conventions, and, well... Now I've just realized how painful the insane standards of alot of men can be. I know 3 self-proclaimed "Men's Rights Activists" and they are 3 of the most disgusting human beings I have ever met. But going into just the cosplay community on its own. If you're cosplaying as a male character, be it ironically or un-ironically, good or bad, you'll mostly get complements on your costume. A man doing Skag Drag, playing up a female cosplay ironically? You'll get props and laughs and all the like. If I go a few weeks without shavin' and let my body hair grow out, I can go in a full Jessica Rabbit and get all the props and laughs in the world. But that's not what I like. I once went to a convention with my sister, and afew of her freinds. Basic Pokemon Group Cosplay.... I was Misty. And it was the first and last time I've ever changed out of my costume during the convention.


"Your too fat." "Your too short." "Your boobs aren't big enough." it was DISGUSTING. When I'm trying to honestly pass myself off as a woman, I usually keep quiet, because I'm blessed with a Travis Willingham Manly Voice That's been in my family for generations. Normally, I like to have fun with the juxtaposition between my feminine appearance and demeanor, and my masculine larynx. Hell, just describing myself like that shows the double standard in action, so allow me to rephrase; My fey appearance and my gruff larynx. But... this was the first time in awhile I wasn't having fun playing it up, I was just... offended. My sister was a goddamn angel for convincing me to stay at that convention, otherwise I wouldn't've seen the adorableness of Travis Willingham and Laura Bailey. But... being told I'm too short and flat-chested to portray a 10 year old girl? That...that just bit my ass harder than my gramp's dog ever has....


Yet at the same time, the double-standard goes both ways. Another key point there is a mystery that has always baffled me. Bisexuality, and its existence. That sounds bad, allow me to clarify. Bisexuality, and its existence in Pop Psych. Women? Bisexuality is overwhelmingly encouraged by men! To an almost disturbing degree! Yet at the same time women who honestly identify as bisexual, beyond simple performative bisexuality are labelled in with the latter group as "Sluts" who simply do it for attention. Meanwhile, Bisexual men? Don't exist. We just don't. It's either we are some sort of magical unicorn you will never truely find because we are simply gay men desperate to be perceived as "normal" (Because yeah, as a guy who regularly prances down to the gameshop in a slinky dress, singing to myself in an obvious baritone, down a crowded street, in daytime, and gets his jollies fucking with random shmucks via basic psychology, I'm desperate to be seen as "normal") or we are some sort of Voracious, Depraved, Lustful, Sexual Glutton. The overwhelming immediate assumption when I or my Husband clarifies that we're bisexual is that we want to FUCK THE BRAINS OUT of whoever's in the room at all times. And it's...it's disheartening at times. My first fiance was a woman...and the relationship wound up falling apart due to constant suspicions I was having (an) affair(s) with (men/a man).


Sexual politics also remains a hot-button topic. Because, well "Women Manipulate." SO DO MEN! CONGRADU-FUCKIN-LATIONS! WOMEN ALSO PHYSICALLY ABUSE! ONCE AGAIN! IT GOES BOTH WAYS!!! When a man is sexually promiscuous, he's a "player", when a woman is, she's a "whore". "Men can't get raped", tell that to a friend of mine who's got some trauma still around from the first woman he ever let into his life. But the problem with patriarchal sexual politics, is that most of the time something terrible happens to a male victim, its viewed as emasculation and humiliation, and his "failure as a man". Victim blaming is event more rapant against men than women-but don't get me wrong, it still happens to women, a-LOT.


GOD this topic is a hot button for me, innit?

 

[bettsyboy]

[QUOTE="The Gunrunner]"Feminism is the belief that equality can be achieved by focusing on half of the problem."
^thats meant to be a little line for my incoming question. It's not my line. It was made by a guy I commonly watch on YouTube. This thread is not based around that video. It was not about (from what I recall) this topic.


My question is this: Should equality groups that focus on male or female rights lose their support, and instead we follow and support groups that claim to focus on both genders?

[/QUOTE]
the Amazing Atheist, I watch him too.


Feminism has seriously skewed off from notions of equality... why? because Feminists still want to be relevant in a world where they've already won.


Feminists won all the battles they wanted, but the thing is they didn't want to stop. Now all feminists are doing is trying to fight for female privilege and making sure men have no say in the matter. in the past, the leaders of the Feminist movement didn't see men as the enemy, they saw men as partners who they wanted on their side for mutual benefit. However as Feminism in the 90s pretty much finished their battles, all in victories, they still wanted to be relevant. So, over the decades since their stance on men has gone from "Mutual partners" to "the enemy" and began to self-radicalize. in their pursuit of self-radicalization Feminists began to spout studies which found that women were paid less than men, however those studies have all been disproven as they only measure the total income of men and women. None of them ever take into account women's choices.


Women have been proven to on the whole earn less than men, however those studies never factor in the amount of women working compared to men (as many women choose to be stay at home moms once they have kids) they never factor in that on the whole, women call in sick much more often than men, they don't factor in women on maternity leave, the fact women who remain working after having children almost always downgrade themselves to working part time in order to better care for their kids. It doesn't factor in that a single mom can't balance both family and work in such a way to be successful in both (eg: she focuses on work, the kids become vagrant and neglected, she focuses on her kids then she can't put in enough work to climb the ladder)


These are in no way bad things, it's just that the gender pay gap isn't the result of sexism, it's the result of women's choices, choices that, despite what many feminists will claim, are just as important if not more so than focusing on making money.


Not to mention that there are countless things that only favor women, like abuse centers, cancer funding and research (breast cancer is the highest funded cancer research in the world, while male prostate cancer which has an equal mortality rate gets next to nothing) family courts, the general court system, societal opinion and more. there have been many cases where women have accused a man falsely of rape, and even after being found to be lying, have had no demands to give back their cash settlement to the victim or has any effort been made to help get the victim back on his feet.


in short, Feminism is dead, it's only alive today in name but any notion of it being for "equality" is well and truly dead and rotting in a nearby swamp.

 

[TacoMann]

BB.... The double standard is still a thing, a horrible horrible thing, and well men, gay and straight, get the shaft unwanted, feminism is still needed. Yes, there are some dumb extremists behind the flag of feminism, but the same can be said of LGBT rights, Religion, Atheism, Drug Laws, Criminal Punishment, Alternative Medicine, Science, and pretty much anything else under the sun.