Advice/Help Feedback Appreciated

[Grey]

So, as some of you know, I've been working on one TTRPG in particular for quite a while.
It's gone through various revisions, rewrites, rebalances, and adjustments.
It is not yet quite done, but when I next take time of work, it could be.

Anyway, if anyone is interested, I'd very much appreciate honest feedback on the current version from people of all experience levels.
What do you like? What do you hate? What's confusing, and why? What could be worded better?

You might also glean some insight into the design process, enjoy yourself, or just pass quarantine faster.

Also, you are welcomed and encouraged to use the material. The whole point of the project is to give people RP content; pirates gonna pirate, so when the Kickstarter comes up I'm really only charging for fancy art and editing.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QHoVcvTs0jfyxRLYpabbomLVkwpwATjX6a8x550ANlI/edit?usp=sharing

Don't feel a need to put a ton of effort in.

 

[Hella Downweather]

Boop,

Avid TTRPG player for a decade or so, and English is not my primary language so please keep it in mind while reading the feedback below. My feedback will be based more on the way you presented the information to an audience who is unfamiliar with your content (especially since I saw you planned to do a Kickstarter!). The points are presented in the order they came to mind while I was reading your lengthy document. (And yeah...you did say we didn't have to put much effort on it, but heck, you clearly DID put a lot of effort, less I could do was to take it seriously...on that note while I may seem VERY critical, I actually enjoyed your content, hence the long post).

1 - What makes your TTRPG different from what we currently have? (Gurps, Pathfinder, Dnd etc...)
2 - You would really gain from a 5 pages resume of your idea, simply to present the different concepts to an unfamiliar audience
3 - Why the hell is the Armor stat called Soak? Like...doesn't it mean to wet something? Or did you go for the imbue meaning?
4 - Would really need a map to visualize what kind of world I'm playing with. That and more oceans.
5 - If Mages were that powerful, and the supernatural an actual danger, how come they became so rare? Is there a reason why the Church doesn't try to convert the heretics and use them for their own device? Would that mean that as a Mage player, you 1, have to justify your powers, 2, can't use magic in public places and make a perception check every time you need to use magic to make sure you aren't spotted?
6 - Money wise, the system bothers me a little. I'm a big money nerd, especially when it comes to history, and the fact that a peasant only earns the equivalent of 2 copper pieces/helm per month makes it hard to fix the prices of basic necessities. Does bartering take a bigger place in this world? Do your villagers use something else as an equivalent of money, like spices or wheat? I mean sure your laborer may sustain his lifestyle by himself, but he still needs to buy tools, seeds etc...so the 2 copper pieces without another system to consolidate it is VERY low/non sustainable.
7 - Random but I like the verses at the start of each chapters, makes me think of Dragon Age Origin, which is a big win in my books.
8 - If this is something that is used for TTRPG, I would put a lot of the background after the character creation part. Sure you want your players to KNOW the lore the first time around, but it messes with replay ability, if you need to skim through 20 pages or so every time you want to create another character (which will be the most used part of your book).
9 - Can someone become a God?
10 - Like a map, if you use specific noble families, a genealogical tree of the nobles families of your world would be VERY useful.
11 - Do peasants know how to read?
12 - A morality chart would be handy (no need to copy what Dnd did, but you could separate Church Support and Heresy, Law Abiding and Outlaw, etc...)
13 - Big grip with the gender part. Sure in European medieval times (which your TTRPG seems to be inspired of), women weren't really considered as equals, but we are in a fantasy realm. Why the need to reinforce that in your world too they had to, most of the time, listen to their husband and yada yada. Trying to look at it in an objective manner and forget I even have a vagina, it is a BIG landmine if you plan to go public with this kind of remarks on your book.

Like : For most peasants, this is simple: men work, women tend the home and the children. Women are subservient to men, but men must treat them well. In practice this tends to lead to women being treated like children, but the idea of secret womanly power still lingers in the minds of peasant men enough to keep them largely respectful. In their way.

Or : Meanwhile, in more pious localities, chastity is very important and men are required to steel themselves against the voracious physical lusts of women.

I would say...let the players decide these kinds of power dynamics. Because now you are forcing people to roleplay something different BECAUSE of their gender. What works for a book setting doesn't always work well for a TTRPG game.

I won't talk much about the dice system. I did not test it, so I can't say much about it right now.

14 - Why are Bearing and Guile two different stats when Bearing has a pretty big impact on Guile?

(Sorry but everytime I read Soak, I imagine a drenched character x.x)

15 - Bit of a nitpick, but System Opacity is a characteristic of most TTRPG

16 - Death saves?

17 - Living with disabilities induced by combat?

18 - I would make a section - Create your character. Again it will be the most used section of your TTRPG, and having it sprinkled all around 156 pages is going to be tedious for players of all levels.

I stopped reading after the magic section, so I may have asked questions that are answered after it.

Overall, if you present this in a kickstarter, I would reorganize the information. Currently it makes sense from a novel point of view, but from an utilitarian point of view it's quite hard to use. Do you get buffs or debuffs depending on where you start? What form does your character sheet take? Where should you start when creating a character? Most players WON'T read 156+ pages for their first game. And they very well may be lost when starting to read your version, as the creator of the TTRPG, it is kinda your job to make it as easy as possible.

You should also make sure you are not punishing players for picking certain genders, or classes. Sure the Historian could adjust everything depending on his campaign, but for me I think a TTRPG rulebook is to provide guidelines for a game, not create a game for the players.

Anyway, hope it helps!

 

[Grey]

Useful! Thank you for putting in that time; I really appreciate how thoughtful and comprehensive this is.
I'd like to address the points just to clear some things up, but I fully acknowledge these need to be clear in the actual text.
I'm not intending to be defensive, just clarify some stuff.

1 - What makes your TTRPG different from what we currently have? (Gurps, Pathfinder, Dnd etc...)

A few things, and it's hard to know where to start. It'd be also be unprofessional to include that in the book, imho, because it's marketing copy.
But I do need to work on that marketing copy.

2 - You would really gain from a 5 pages resume of your idea, simply to present the different concepts to an unfamiliar audience

That's definitely going to be in the KS

3 - Why the hell is the Armor stat called Soak? Like...doesn't it mean to wet something? Or did you go for the imbue meaning?

You can get Soak from other sources, like muscle mass, and not just armour. I might change it, honestly; I haven't seen the term used this way since Vampire: The Masquerade.

4 - Would really need a map to visualize what kind of world I'm playing with. That and more oceans.

I agree. I have a map, but it needs some adjustment, and I want to hire an artist to recreate it for the finished book.

5 - If Mages were that powerful, and the supernatural an actual danger, how come they became so rare? Is there a reason why the Church doesn't try to convert the heretics and use them for their own device? Would that mean that as a Mage player, you 1, have to justify your powers, 2, can't use magic in public places and make a perception check every time you need to use magic to make sure you aren't spotted?

Magi are born rarely, they take time to become powerful, and if other people don't kill them they can accidentally kill themselves with their power.
There is actually some secretive harnessing of Magi, but in general the Church is too dogmatic to allow it.
You do not need to justify your powers, though, and you can use magic in public if you think you can get away with it.

6 - Money wise, the system bothers me a little. I'm a big money nerd, especially when it comes to history, and the fact that a peasant only earns the equivalent of 2 copper pieces/helm per month makes it hard to fix the prices of basic necessities. Does bartering take a bigger place in this world? Do your villagers use something else as an equivalent of money, like spices or wheat? I mean sure your laborer may sustain his lifestyle by himself, but he still needs to buy tools, seeds etc...so the 2 copper pieces without another system to consolidate it is VERY low/non sustainable.

That is fair and accurate, and it's due for revision. Generally, though, farmers and labourers are often provided those things by their local feudal lord, and between peasants barter is not uncommon.

8 - If this is something that is used for TTRPG, I would put a lot of the background after the character creation part. Sure you want your players to KNOW the lore the first time around, but it messes with replay ability, if you need to skim through 20 pages or so every time you want to create another character (which will be the most used part of your book).

Chapter 2 starts by outlining the system and ends with character creation. The idea is you can skim the opening to get an idea of the setting, then go to make your character based on that info.
I should have a direct link, though, and maybe put some kind of marker in the physical book.
Practically everything after chapter 2 is more background.

9 - Can someone become a God?

Nope. No one can even prove gods exist.

10 - Like a map, if you use specific noble families, a genealogical tree of the nobles families of your world would be VERY useful.

Good idea. Whomever I pay for the layout will probably handle that.

11 - Do peasants know how to read?

They do not, and I thought I specified as much.

12 - A morality chart would be handy (no need to copy what Dnd did, but you could separate Church Support and Heresy, Law Abiding and Outlaw, etc...)

I think morality charts are a relic of the past, and I don't see how one would benefit the game. Especially since this is just one part of the setting.

13 - Big grip with the gender part.

Fair, but dealing with oppressive attitudes is part of the theme and setting.
I had thought I'd made it clear I don't endorse those attitudes, and they're meant to be the most common attitudes of one part of the setting.
I include them because I want players to reject those views, I want their characters to rail against injustice and exploit the prejudices of their enemies.
And in other parts of the setting, those dynamics are completely different, and some of these choices are intended to create constrast between the various cultures of the setting.

I do have a more fantastical variant of the world where I did the opposite, for what it's worth. Both decisions were purposeful.
I take your point and will think on it.

14 - Why are Bearing and Guile two different stats when Bearing has a pretty big impact on Guile?

Because some people have more of one than the other and rolling them into one leaves players who'd prefer the distinction shit out of luck.

15 - Bit of a nitpick, but System Opacity is a characteristic of most TTRPG

I prefer not to take things for granted, and I would also argue that hasn't been true of non-OSR games since 2010 or so.

16 - Death saves?

Nope. Against the spirit of the game.

17 - Living with disabilities induced by combat?

I'll probably cover that in a revision before long.

18 - I would make a section - Create your character.

That section is there in chapter 2, but I do need to rewrite it as a step-by-step guide with examples.
I'll try and foreground that more in the document with a link or something.


I know you didn't test the system, but did you find that section easy or hard to understand?

 

[Grey]

Wait, I see what you mean about the way the chargen section is laid out right now - nevermind anything I said about that, need to definitely make a one-page summary in addition to the exampled step-by-step

 

[Hella Downweather]

Overall I think your document is a very detailed and thought out TTRPG system, the only problem is that since there is so much going on (you ARE trying to create another world after all), the length of it all plays against you when it comes to the comprehension of the different mechanics. I was never sure if some information was important for character creation, or was simply some important lore (ie : Morality). Plus, some Lore seems to exist...simply to exist and does not support Gameplay mechanics. Too much lore can also restrict what your players can do in term of adventure, so I would check if everything has a role to play. You would win a lot I think by making summaries of a lot of your plot points in bold, at the start of each section/chapter, and the put the detail below, in a normal font/slightly smaller font. That way a player can have a basic knowledge of your universe more quickly, without skipping important information hidden between two sentences of lore, and can decide to read more about certain topics afterward.

Question 1 I asked for my own curiosity XD And because when you are going to make your Kickstarter, you need to be able to prove in a small paragraph why YOUR TTRPG is unique and deserve to have money thrown at it. I would also add short examples (a page or less) of themes or adventures your players could do in your universe to help visualize what you can do with this.

Something that would be interesting to add to the first chapter (again, if it's after the magic section I apologize, did not go through it) would be the weather effects on the characters. Would going out foolishly during a thunderstorm prove deadly depending on Constitution for example?

To go back for the gender part...I understand wanting an oppressive system, but in term of marketability, great project were stoned for less than what you wrote. Even if you do not endorse it, the way it's phrased can be offensive for a lot of people. Plus there are a lot of ways you can be oppressive without resorting to cheap gender divides. But if you intend to keep your current system, I would advise that you phrase it so that even if some sentences are taken completely out of context, it shouldn't look like you are another of these sexist nerds who think woman should just stay at home and out of their games (don't think it's the case here, but outrage is easy and the last thing you need if your project to be killed by an angry mob before you can even explain yourself).

Would be curious to see the summary for character creation, because right now it is a bit foggy for me I admit.

--

After doing a more thorough reading of the dice system here is what I have to say, I am more of a RolePlayer than a Roll Player, so please keep it in mind :

Social Combat - Is it always necessary when trying to convince someone? Because while I can see it's uses, I also fear it will inhibit a lot of the roleplay part (even if you precise yeah please roleplay as much as you can). It is an interesting mechanic when used for a long period in game (ie : a feast, an hearing with someone important etc...), but if it's supposed to emulate a short conversation it's a bit of a roleplay killer for me.

When should a Composure check be required?
What decide if someone is convinced or is storming off?
How can the victor turn such tactics against someone? Does he have a buff to convince onlookers? Or is it something more automatic?

I feel you need to be more concise AND precise when writing your rules. If you do this, this and this happens. If you win, this effects happens. If you lose, this happens. Simple and to the point is always the best when explaining a concept, if you want to add details, do it under the main part, in a different font.

Physical combat - It needs more precision.

You talk about actions without defining what they are.
You talk about Combat Pool without defining what it is.

Talking about concepts BEFORE introducing them is very confusing. Even if you explain what they are a few paragraph down, it causes the reader to wonder if they missed something before, and check back on previous pages. Only to find nothing. If you introduce a new term, explain it on the spot or your reader will be lost when it comes to mechanics. AFTER all the terms are explained you can explain how the first turn works. Else it is very confusing.

How it works makes me think of Magic the Gathering, pretty neat.

I would have a chart with all the kind of attacks and defense you can do and their CP cost, I would combined the two of them so that the reader can see at a glance when he can do during his turn/the round.

How do you calculate Offense.
How do you calculate Defense.
If they are explained earlier, a small resume of how they are calculated would be appreciated.
You say damage can be reduced by Soak but don't explain how until later in the doc.
You say penetration can counter Soak but don't explain how.

How Soak works is unclear even after being explained. (I need numbers!)

 

[Grey]

All good points. Rather than address it point-by-point again (unless you want specific answers), I'm just grateful for the feedback.
I'll be digesting your points to apply to the next revision.

 

[Hella Downweather]

Welcome! If you need some specific feedback on some sections or opinion on marketing feel free to DM me ^^ Always open to help people with these kind of things.
Else good luck with everything! You have a pretty good base, but it needs polish before you can really sell and market it

 

[Grey]

Thank you. And yeah, it does need a lot more polish. I've budgeted for an editor, thankfully.

If you ever want to give it a try I also run it on RPN fairly often.