Extra successes and DV

[riven5]

I must be stupid, but I haven't seen this topic anywhere.  I was just rereading the 2e corebook and while in the rules for combat I remembered a problem I had had from before.  And so I looked specifically at determining damage to find my solution.


The problem is simple; When determining raw damage, do you add extra successes after DV, or before?


Ex:  I attack a beggar and get 8 successes.  He has a DV of 3, so I hit him.


Now then, do I add 8 successes, or do I add 5 (the number of successes that went beyond the DV score)?


I have always interpreted it as meaning that extra successes were just that.  Those successes which were extra, as in, the difference between the DV and your roll.  However...and I'm quoting the book here,


"Next add the number of successes from the attack roll.  The sum of base damage and accuracy successes is called raw damage."  pg. 148, 2e Core


Hmmm.  Thoughts?

 

[Persell]

Well, to be fair the only successes from your attack roll are the ones after you take the DV out. The DV basically acts as an external penalty, if that makes it seem clearer.


So rolled successes - minus DV = extra successes for damage, so your example would be 8 - 3 = 5 successes to add to your damage.


Hope that helps.

 

[skafte]

It is as the Captain says, but: In 1E it was actually: "yours successes" - "Defence" - 1 (the success you need to make the hit connect)


So in your case it would be 8-3-1= 4 successes to add to your damage.


Although it's a big tricky to calculate I actually find it a lot more logic. Else you would actually be hitting a person not by beating his DV but just by being equal to it. Or you would always get a extra success to your damage, which to me seems very stupid, then it could just as well be in the damage number from the start.

 

[wordman]

In 1E it was actually: "yours successes" - "Defence" - 1 (the success you need to make the hit connect)

The example on page 231 says just the opposite. Many house rule it as you say, but it isn't canon. It's true that you need at least  one success after defense to consider the attack a hit, but that one success does add to damage. Yes, this means you can never actually do just base damage in 1E.

 

[skafte]

hmm, I was sure my way was the way it worked in 1E, but i'm apparently wrong, hehe - good thing we have moved on to 2E else i would have a really pissed storyteller  

 

[Persell]

Did I miss something? or did he ask about 2E not 1E? While you're both right about the success and damage calculation of 1E, how is that discussion going to help not confuse Riven5? I'm not wanting to be a jerk, but if he asked for help because he's confused about 2E, tossing in 1E comments isn't going to help him.

 

[wordman]

...how is that discussion going to help not confuse Riven5?

Because you already answered his question. We're now on to thread digression.

 

[Persell]

Hmm...good point. To add to the degradation....

Yes, this means you can never actually do just base damage in 1E.

Isn't that the same case in 2E? I mean, you have to have at least one success more than the DV to hit, and that one success adds to damage.....

 

[riven5]

Thanks.  I figured that's the way it worked (or else being able to double extra successes for the purposes of damage would be sick powerful).


It's how I've been playing things ever since I went to 2E, but it was always a lingering concern in my mind.

 

[Moonsilver]

In old ST rules you had to get one success to "hit". Then your successes over that where added to damage.


But 2e is definatly using the every success over DV counts idea.