Dynamic Sorcery

[ashenphoenix]

Doesn't your own 'That's how you run stunts' apply to what you're saying? Your take on the 'Stunting and the Impossible' is simply that--an interpretation. Not canon. So don't give me that condescending' date=' snippity 'That's how [i']you[/i] run stunts' crap.

Nope, still canon.


Go read the section on stunts again (BWB pp 267-9). It's still entirely within canon, as is yours.


ST's interpretation. See above argument about Death of Iron Butterflies being impossible.


The reason I'm snippy is that it's a redundant argument. Exalted already has provision for exactly what you are suggesting (in the form of Astrology and Glamour Sorcery). It just seems like people are too lazy to read about it.


The only splats that can't get access to some form of these are Solars, Abyssals, Dragonblooded, Dragon Kings, Ghosts, God-Blooded and Mountain Folk (I don't think I've missed any). Mountain Folk have a damned good reason for not being able to  have their Heart's Grace forged. DK have Paths flexable enough to almost be Mage Spheres on their own. Godblooded have to stretch to even learn to have essence, let alone cast any form of sorcery. Dragon-blooded are not much better. Ghosts cannot use sorcery or necromancy.


Of that list, you're left with Solars and Abyssals.


Well, shit. I dunno. If you insist on the dynamicism, make the top tier of Soc/Nec be able to be cast dynamically.


I wouldn't though - as I've said, these are fixed ways of exploiting Creation's rules. There's another system that's already done the work for you.


It even has the optional rule (E:tFF - can't be bothered finding the page right now) of letting pretty much anyone (I'd rule that ghosts have their Heart split between the hungry ghost an themselves) have "dynamic" (glamour) sorcery.


But hey, if you kiddies are all jumped up about not reading anything, you just go ahead.

 

[Jakk Bey]

What most folks who are objecting to here, is that Sorcery isn't presented as being dynamic, and for a reason.  


The Second Age isn't the Fourth, on the cusp of the Fifth Age. It isn't the WoD, and there are differences in the settings for a reason.  Not because the designers weren't aware of the possibilities of such a system, but because such a system wasn't in line with the setting.


I don't think that the kind of changes you are thinking of are in line with the setting. Not because it's not a neat idea, not because I object to Mage in principle. But because Mage and Exalted are two different games, with very different themes.


And mind you, I'm the guy who popped up how many pages of canon bending material? Twisted the Age of Sorrows into a whole new setting, because I wanted something a little different. But you'll notice that I changed the setting drastically before including a lot of that material, because the original setting wasn't appropriate for those changes.


You want to do it, go ahead. But we're just voicing our reasons that we don't think that it's a great idea, and that perhaps you might be missing a big part of the setting, and the core themes of the game that is presented. That by adding your twist to the setting, that you'll be changing some of the core themes of the Age of Sorrows.


The AOS isn't the WoD, and trying to shoehorn in bits and pieces, I think, misses part of the point of the setting in the first place.


It's your table, and do with it as you will, but that doesn't mean that we have to agree that it's a good idea. Or even neccessary.


You want nifty coolio magic effects on the fly, I don't think that Sorcery is the way to go, given how it's presented in canon. Customizing Charms is a much easier way to go.  And much more apropos for the setting, than changing Sorcery to fit more in line with a game that is far removed from this setting, and its themes.

 

[Lurker in Darkness]

Ok, what you guys aren't getting is that Dynamic Sorcecry doesn't have the same mystical underpinnings as awakened magick. Magik is direct alteration of the status quo through direct use of willpower, in other words: imposing your will on reality.


Dynamic sorcery DOES work within the constraints of Creation's metaphysical rules. It does not violate what is stated about the setting.


I think we all agree that Sorcery is the manipulation of reality's essence flows (and thus reality itself), using certain foci, their specific effects being hardwired into Creation itself. Channeling essence in a certain way, through certain foci, is what produces sorcerous effects. The effect you get is defined by what foci you use, right? So, if you change your foci, you get a different effect. That's how sorcerers experiment to get new spells. If they create new spells, surely they have a general idea what piece of effect each focus will produce. Therefore, sorcery is kind of predictable, given the exact nature of sorcerous foci.


Creating spells, though, is a time consuming process. What I'm proposing is: if the sorcerer has a minimum grasp on the effects of foci, he might attempt changing some of them in order to get an alternative effect. Of course, as he's doing this on the fly, he will surely add unnecessary elements, and it would need an extra bit of invested mental force, not to mention extra motes.


Let's exemplify this:


Cunning Spider, an accomplished Twilight Caste sorcerer, stumbled across a group of goblins, ehile hunting for artifact rare materials in the Wyld. His most useful spell for this situation is Death of Obsidian Butterflies, as the goblins are many, but not individually powerful. However, he wants to be sure to kill every one of those bastards, so none of them can run away and warn a Raksha Noble.


After some few seconds of mentally decomposing the foci that composes the spell, he thinks he identifies the one responsible for the "obsidian" part of the spells, substituting it for one, he hopes, is more aligned with iron.


He then proceeds to cast the spell, concentrating hard, as the essence flows seem slippery (due to the inneffcient, imprecise adaptation). He also has to invest some extra essence, as the foci he added don't seem to channel essence particularly well.


Thanks to luck and his own occult ability, he manages to get the effect. Though it is not as potent as he desired, it is enough to eliminate all goblins. Know, he only has to worry about getting away before anyone spots his towering anima banner...

 

[Jakk Bey]

Nope. You missed the point. It's the idea that Sorcery takes a lot of time, and crafting spells on the fly doesn't allow for that.  Again, it's not like changing a tire, but reworking a whole transmission.  Delicate elements in place against other delicate elements.


It's not Magick, and I don't think that it's a simple matter of just changing a few lines. These are tried and true formula, but each one isn't like Hermetic Magic in Ars Magica, with set formulas and a common language.  If that's how you want to run your games, fine, but I disagree both with the idea of trying to turn Sorcery into something that it's not, and for pushing game balance aside as well. I think that it is inappropriate for the setting. I think that the concept violates one of the core themes.


Just because a Sorcerer want's to produce Iron Butterflies instead of Obsidian Butterflies because the situation warrents them isn't enough. If your Sorcerer wants to create a spell that unleashes a torrent of Iron Thingies, then he ought to be spending some time and forethought into creating said spell, as a derivation, I'd even cut him some slack on the time frame, but in the middle of combat isn't the time to try something new. Again, like trying to play with the transmission, while the car's still moving...