C&C for some solar brawl charms?

[Haku1]

I know how people say that there's no love for brawlers... and such... so I've decided to give them brawlers some nice custom charms...


I'll wait for lore5 to fully kick in before submitting them there... but in the mean time, I would appreciate any and all C&C on them.


***


Thunderbolt Strike


Cost : 5 motes


Type : Supplemental


Duration : Instant


Minimum Brawl : 3


Minimum Essence : 3


Requires : Sledgehammer Fist Punch


The solar with this charm punches or kicks with the speed of lightning and the fury of a thunderbolt, slamming past any futile defenses put forth by his opponent.


The solar's brawl attack can not be parried without the use of an absolute perfect defense charm such as Heaven Guardian Defense (Solars) or Serenity in Blood (Sidereals). Dodges function as normal. On a successful attack, the solar counts his raw damage twice, before adding additional successes from the attack. If used in conjunction or comboed with a damage enhancer, the effects are calculated seperately.


Raptor Slaying Technique


Cost : 1 mote per die + 3 motes


Type : Reflexive


Duration : Instant


Minimum Brawl : 4


Minimum Essence : 2


Requires : Fist of Iron Technique


A solar with this charm channels essence into his body in a very specific manner, one that allows him to catch the punches and kicks directed at him, to redirect the furious essence of his opponent so that it it flows harmlessly away from his body and than back at those who would strike the chosen of the sun. He meets the attack head-on with no fear of being harmed, it is his opponent who should beware.


Upon paying 3 motes. the character attacks the blow coming his way with his full unarmed brawl die pool. The solar may chose to boost the counter-attack by 1 die per additional mote spent. The solar may not buy more die than his natural limit of attribute + ability.


Should the solar fail, any successes he rolled are subtracted from his opponent's attack as if the solar had failed a normal dodge or parry.


Should the solar gain more successes than his opponent, the opponent's attack is negated and the extra successes are treated as normal extra successes as if the solar has successfully attacked his opponent.


This charm's effects can manifest as catching a punch and than crushing the caught fist or kicking a swordsman's wrist as he slashes at the solar.


Against ranged attacks, unless the solar has some way of retaliating at distance, the solar's extra successes are simply wasted and the opponent is unharmed.


This charm's reflexively generated action counts as a counter-attack and does not count as an action towards the solar's die pool. This charm simply does not work against other counter-attack charms. This charm works freely against all attacks irregardless of their damage type. This charm's generated action is not considered a parry or a dodge, but is an actual attack.


Golden Lightning Fist


Cost : 6 motes + 1 willpower


Type : Simple


Duration : Scene


Minimum Brawl : 3


Minimum Essence : 2


Requires : Fist of Iron Technique


The solar's body crackle with golden lightning as essence suffuses his body, forming golden lightning talons over his fingers, with his very punches and kicks behaving like massive battering rams as they shatter doors and topple walls. Every single blow from the solar will gouge stone floors and walls as they arc towards the solar's opponent.


When activated. this charm allows the solar to reflexively allocate a number of points equal to (solar's Brawl x 2) towards his speed, accuracy, damage, and defense ratings of his unarmed attacks. No single rating may exceed the solar's Brawl + Essence. If using power combat, the rate of the solar's unarmed attacks become infinite. The damage done by the solar is lethal and he may parry lethal attacks without a stunt.


The solar appears to be covered with crackling golden lightning that lights 3 to 4 yards around the solar.


Celestial Legion of One


Cost : 1 mote per die + 4 motes and 1 willpower


Type : Simple


Duration : Scene


Minimum Brawl : 4


Minimum Essence : 3


Requires : Golden Lightning Fist


Channeling the power of the sun into his very blows, the solar strikes swiftly and surely; his frame burning with the fury of the Unconquered Sun as golden shockwaves flare from where his blows lands as they slide effortless past the futile defenses of his opponent.


This charm must be activated with 4 motes and 1 willpower being spend by the solar to channel the essence in his body properly, to further boost his combat powers requires 1 mote per die added to the unarmed brawl attack die pool for the scene. The solar may not buy more die than his natural die limit of (attribute + ability).


Anvil Crushing Blow


Cost : 5 motes


Type : Supplemental


Duration : Instant


Minimum Brawl : 3


Minimum Essence : 2


Requires : Heaven Thunder Hammer


Focusing his anima to a pin-point fury, the solar can strike with the concentrated power of the entirity of his essence into a single spot, shattering any defensive measure used by his opponent.


This charm allows the solar to simply ignore the soak of his target, transmitting the full fury of his brawl attack to the soft mortal body of his opponent. If the target survives the blow, he must make a reflexive dexterity + athletics contested roll against the solar's strength + brawl. Failure results in the solar's target being knocked down and spending a turn clearing her head and getting back up as per knock down rules on page 234-235 of the Exalted corebook.


Hill Crushing Shockwave


Cost : 6 motes


Type : Simple


Duration : Instant


Minimum Brawl : 4


Minimum Essence : 4


Requires : Anvil Crushing Blow, Hammer on Iron Technique


The solar strikes with such puissant power that his blows can not be denied, it brings all of the solar's opponents down to their knees with the fury of the sun made manifest in the solar brawler.


The solar raises his fist high, gathering power before striking the ground with such fury that it shatters under him. As the ground shatters, the effect ripples and spreads from the solar up to (a radius of 10 X Strength) yards from her in a circular pattern, while a furious gale and golden lightning races with the spreading cracks and shattered ground. Those caught in the blast radius are thrown back as the lightning tears at their bodies.


The solar makes a single brawl attack roll, anyone can defend against it may do so seperately. Otherwise, the solar than calculates the damage done to those caught in the shockwave as normal, with the caveat that the lethal damage is piercing (halves the defender's armour soak).


This is an area effect and thus those caught in it can not parry the effect without the use of a perfect defense charm such as Heaven Guardian Defense (Solars) or Serenity in Blood (Sidereals), anything less will simply not function. To dodge this charm's effects requires that those caught in it be able to move outside of the radius of the effect with the dodge. Those caught in the blast radius are typically knocked back (please see knock back rules on page 235 of the Exalted corebook).


This charm affects everyone caught in its radius, it does not discriminate between friend and foe.


For those willing to do stunts, this charm can be performed using a high ax kick or a stomp to the ground. It is advised that this charm NOT be done on such fragile things as wooden ships or platforms, least the solar destroy the fragile ship and such by accident...


Earth Dragon's Grasp


Cost : 2 motes per success


Type : Reflexive


Duration : Instant


Minimum Brawl : 3


Minimum Essence : 1


Requires : None


A solar with this charm has a grasp like that of a dragon of the earth opening forth a ravine beneath a city and than crushing it as it falls into the ravine.


The solar makes a clinch or a hold as normal, however after making his roll to control the clinch or hold, the solar may find that he does not have enough successes, he may than proceed to purchase additional successes to maintain his grasp on his opponent. The solar may than activate this charm and purchases successes up to (his essence trait + successes already rolled). Each success purchased thus costs 2 motes.


Escaping the Depths of the Ocean


Cost : 5 motes


Type : Reflexive


Duration : Instant


Minimum Brawl : 4


Minimum Essence : 2


Requires : Earth Dragon's Grasp


To fight against another brawler means that one must be prepared to clinched or placed in a hold. However, against other exalted brawlers, this can mean charm-enhanced clinches or brawl that can not be normally escaped once trapped by them. Truly, it is like being trapped at the bottom of the ocean.


A solar with this charm learns to loosen his body so that he may slip the clutches of his opponent. The solar spends 5 motes and he automatically slips free of any clinches or holds that he is in. This is a perfect effect. This charm does not work against being tied up or bound in any way, only on clinches and holds.

 

[MOK]

irregardless

http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictiona ... ss&x=0&y=0


I hates that thing!  Precious!!  HACK-GOLLUM!!


I examined these charms on the basis of mechanics within the theme of Brawl as I have percieved it.  I have become completely anal about Brawl mechanics, right or wrong.


I didnt think much about the costs, type, balance, etc.  Just mechanical theme.


Thunderbolt Strike -


I like it


Raptor Slaying Technique -


I like it.  


Questions arise concerning the combining of a die adder to this defense and counterattack.  This is effectively 3 effects in one charm.  However, I cannot necessarally say it is unwarranted...


Golden Lightening Fist -


It looks fun, but it's questionable wether this fits.  Maybe?  I don't quite know.  Does this invalidate Fist of Iron?  If so, it should not.


Celestial Legion of One -


I don't like this one.  It's not sideways enough for me, a little too direct.


Anvil Crushing Blow -


Soak affecting charms in Brawl aren't that as one dimensional, since the Clinch is a prominant brawl attack.  Clinches, of course, deal piercing damage in power combat.  As such, I think this charm should rethought to take clinches into account, integrating the move a bit more.


For that matter, you might want to go over each of these charms, and imagine each charm being used in the context of a clinch, and see if it still fits what you want it to be, and see if it works well with the clinch.


Hill Crushing Shockwave -


A few thoughts.  First, theres no reason for this to deal piercing damage so far as I imagine it.  Piercing should be well justified, imo.  Another means of making it attractive could be thought up.  


Second, I think you might consider cataloguing the rules of what happens to the ground or platforms that this charm is used on, as crushing shit is something Brawl is all up ons.  This could certainly be left alone as well, though.  


Earth Dragons Grasp -


I don't like it.


Keep in mind that the CotI charms that have a means of gaining more dice or successes or whatever can be directly translated to clinches.  In this way, this charm is slightly redundant.  That aside, I think this charm should be more widely applicable though.  Brawl's charms are sometimes usable in non-brawl moves, and this charm could be reworked in such a way to reflect that, as well as being able to work on something thats not a clinch(which to me would make more sense to me, as I percieve Brawl).


Escaping the Depths of the Ocean -


I'm not sure what to think, in terms of mechanical theme.  Jury's out on this one.


I hope this gives an additional perspective...  


And on the side, I'd be curious to see what you think about the defensive end of brawling.  You might recall the thread about that from a while back...  Even with your defensive options here, Brawl could use more in order to make it even up with Melee.

 

[Andrew02]

Golden Lightening Fist -
It looks fun, but it's questionable wether this fits.  Maybe?  I don't quite know.  Does this invalidate Fist of Iron?  If so, it should not.

It's sort of like the Dipping Swallow Defense > Bulwark Stance > Fivefold Bulwark Stance leap, without the speed bump. Fists of Iron is still useful for combo purposes, just like DSD is once you get FBS. Since you do not even need Fist of Iron if you're carrying around a cestus, I do not see any reason FoI should be protected.

 

[MOK]

Since it's scene, while FoI is apparently instant as you intimate, then the answer is no, it is not invalidated.  So it's all good.

 

[Andrew02]

Even still, it's a fact that certain charms invalidate others anyway. FoI is such a generic charm whose effects get lumped into virtually EVERY Martial Arts form charm and can be had by simply carrying around a set of studded leather straps that it does not deserve the slightest form of protection whatsoever.

 

[Haku1]

irregardless

http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictiona ... ss&x=0&y=0


I hates that thing!  Precious!!  HACK-GOLLUM!!

Bah!

I examined these charms on the basis of mechanics within the theme of Brawl as I have percieved it.  I have become completely anal about Brawl mechanics, right or wrong.
I didnt think much about the costs, type, balance, etc.  Just mechanical theme.


Thunderbolt Strike -


I like it

Fair enough... and yeah... the theme here is smacking things hard... VERY hard.

Raptor Slaying Technique -
I like it.  


Questions arise concerning the combining of a die adder to this defense and counterattack.  This is effectively 3 effects in one charm.  However, I cannot necessarally say it is unwarranted...

Hmmm... well... the die-adder is sort of a must given that as of now... there are no canonical die-adder for brawl... It's also a pretty potent charm if comboed with a 'perfect' defense.

Golden Lightening Fist -


It looks fun, but it's questionable wether this fits.  Maybe?  I don't quite know.  Does this invalidate Fist of Iron?  If so, it should not.

Actually, it doesn't invalidate FoI... as FoI gives lethal damage and as of PG, 1 to accuracy and 2L to the damage. However, FoI is instant and reflexive, this is simple and scene long, which means you'll need time to set it up.


Also note that this works on ALL unarmed attacks, not just brawl.... a good incentive for a martial artist to get brawl as well as MA... ^_-

Celestial Legion of One -


I don't like this one.  It's not sideways enough for me, a little too direct.

You don't think it's side-ways enough? How so? I mean the point is to hit stuff... which means you need to be able to actually touch the target. ;

Anvil Crushing Blow -


Soak affecting charms in Brawl aren't that as one dimensional, since the Clinch is a prominant brawl attack.  Clinches, of course, deal piercing damage in power combat.  As such, I think this charm should rethought to take clinches into account, integrating the move a bit more.


For that matter, you might want to go over each of these charms, and imagine each charm being used in the context of a clinch, and see if it still fits what you want it to be, and see if it works well with the clinch.

That would be useful, save that this charm is used for punches, kicks, strikes... clinches/holds wouldn't be affected by it. Not unless you can figure out a way to punch someone you have in a clinch or head-butt them...


Also, note that clinches/holds are just as prominent with Martial Arts... it's just that they seldom get charms for 'em.

Hill Crushing Shockwave -


A few thoughts.  First, theres no reason for this to deal piercing damage so far as I imagine it.  Piercing should be well justified, imo.  Another means of making it attractive could be thought up.  


Second, I think you might consider cataloguing the rules of what happens to the ground or platforms that this charm is used on, as crushing shit is something Brawl is all up ons.  This could certainly be left alone as well, though.  

You've got 6 charms before it, an essence requirement of 4.... with 4 charms and an essence of 4, the survival tree is giving PERFECT attacks that don't even get soaked (sun's flaming tongue).


Well... mechanically, there's nothing... but it's up to the ST to fiat what the hell happens when you've got lots of breakages on solid ground... and than translate that to wood.

Earth Dragons Grasp -


I don't like it.


Keep in mind that the CotI charms that have a means of gaining more dice or successes or whatever can be directly translated to clinches.  In this way, this charm is slightly redundant.  That aside, I think this charm should be more widely applicable though.  Brawl's charms are sometimes usable in non-brawl moves, and this charm could be reworked in such a way to reflect that, as well as being able to work on something thats not a clinch(which to me would make more sense to me, as I percieve Brawl).

I basically wanted some clinches/holds in a tree that's seperate from the other direct punches and kicks and stuff in the manner of the Abyssal brawl ability.

Escaping the Depths of the Ocean -


I'm not sure what to think, in terms of mechanical theme.  Jury's out on this one.

This would be a 'perfect' get out of clinches card that you want to carry when you're facing water aspect brawlers...

I hope this gives an additional perspective...  


And on the side, I'd be curious to see what you think about the defensive end of brawling.  You might recall the thread about that from a while back...  Even with your defensive options here, Brawl could use more in order to make it even up with Melee.

Well... defensively... a brawl should either catch the blow, grin at his opponent and than beat the libing daylight out of his opponent... or just take the shot and than bounce the poor puny fool off of his buffed muscles. This can be simulated with the RST charm... ;;;


Althou, you could make a case for brawler to duck and weave and get a die penalty charm inflicted against those attacking him or a difficulty increasing charm...

 

[MOK]

This is what makes Brawl so fascinating to me, it has so many interpretations of how it is executed.  This is also what affects my view, and prompts me to feel that separated trees and specific use charms should be avoided.


To me, it seems like making charms just for this-or-that are steps (small though it may be) towards pigeonholing the fighting style as done in a certain way.  To me, in the current system, this is a main separation of Brawl and Martial Arts.  


Instead, I think Brawl feels like a box of tools that can work wherever you manage to cram them in, chock full of reflexives and effects that can potentially augment melee, martial arts, clinches, disarms, sundering, just about any kind of violent application.  =o)


The more widely applicable every charm is the better, I figure.  To me, thats what makes Brawl totally awsome.


Of course, it occurs to me that I may have come up with this system of how it 'should' be in an arbitrary manner.  I inferred this crap from how I interpret the CotI charms, compared with the core book.


I figured some justification on why I find contention with seemingly acceptable things was in order, sorry for rambling!

 

[MOK]

And now on to a more specific reply!


I looked through some Brawl again after reading this(wtfs wrong with me?!), and a few things occurred to me.  These thoughts follow -


Thunderbolt Strike -


I noted Ox Stunning Blow and KnockOut Blow accomplish higher damage as well.  This makes me think, perhaps the effect on this custom charm is not unique enough to make it worthwhile?  I suppose that more damage is more damage, but if you had all those charms, youd end up needing to combo them to take advantage of your charm tree.  And since we can't let combo's rip all the time, one of these charms are gonna consistantly fall by the wayside in favor of another charm.


But I'd need to compare them side-by-side to know.


Raptor Slaying Technique -


I don't quite agree that a die adder is necessary.  I think theres other ways to explore when it comes to getting past a defense.  To me this ideology is justified by the thought that Brawl doesn't try to *compete*, it does whatever is possible to win in any way.  It's more underhanded.  I figure dueling die pools is Melee's gig.  Some other options exist, but im lazy at the moment......


Golden Lightening Fist -


I guess im starting to like this one more.  Its also a logical leap from FoI.


Celestial Legion of One -


I changed my mind on this one, somewhat.  I still don't think that a direct die adder(ala excellent strike) is the way to go, however pools do need to be boosted at least somewhat.  A scene long pool booster I think would actually make some ammount of thematic sense.  Not to the degree that you would overpower an equally competant melee characters die pool, but some quick fix augmentation I think is in order to ease the strain.  


If I had my way with this charm, I'd dump down the augmentative potential, making the number more static, and make it reflexive.


It's absolutely true that I have to get past the guy's defenses first, but again, competing die pools I feel is the domain of Melee.


Anvil Crushing Blow -


You make a good point that clinches/holds happen in Martial Arts as well, and are not really taken into account during charm creation for the most part.  


The more I think about this one though, the more I don't care for it too much though... I'm not sure why....   =o/


Hill Crushing Shockwave -


Now don't misunderstand, I do agree that this charm deserves to be THE SHIT.  What I mean is that it should do something other than piercing damage.  Something better, too.  But uhh...  To be honest I'm not sure what.  


Hm.  On a side note, I'd say get rid of the charms variability and make it more like an insta-hit.  That makes it a little better, but still it could use more.  Something that I currently can't think of.  And I'm lazy...


Earth Dragon's Grasp -


You brought up a sidelong point, with the Abyssal tree.  It is built contrary to the ideology I am espousing.  Let it be known that I realize I'm goin out on a thin limb with my Brawl rants.  =o)


Still, I see this particular mechanic to be redundant.


Escaping the Depths of the Ocean -


Contrary to what I've been spouting about how brawl should be this way and that way, I feel that a perfect defense that is dedicated to clinches is probably warranted.  As such, I think this is an appropriate exception.  I do like this charm.


Man I just want to rape your charms and pull them out from under you or something....  I'm a raging asshole!  Well... Actually given the context of this forum, maybe I'm not that bad.  Heh.


MOK

 

[Haku1]

This is what makes Brawl so fascinating to me, it has so many interpretations of how it is executed.  This is also what affects my view, and prompts me to feel that separated trees and specific use charms should be avoided.

I don't know... I feel that brawl should be seperated into functions. Say you're a brawler, and you -want- to just hit HARD or to clinch very well... You don't want to go thru a mess like that found in the Lunar charm clouds.


This makes the case for multiple -short- brawl trees in the manner of the solar throw tree or even the solar melee or dodge trees... getting to your goals of beat down in a reasonable amount of charms.

To me, it seems like making charms just for this-or-that are steps (small though it may be) towards pigeonholing the fighting style as done in a certain way.  To me, in the current system, this is a main separation of Brawl and Martial Arts..

Pigeon-holing? Far from it... think about it... brawl has to accompalish a few things, right? This is mainly hit hard! Clinch/hold someone! And some form of defensive measure that doesn't just go the melee or dodge or soak route.


So, this could call for seperate trees... especially if you want to concentrate on... say hitting hard and defensive measures. Long trees are good in the long term, but NOT when there is only 1 tree.


That would make it analog to Martial Arts or the Lunar charm mess, requiring you to take charms you don't want and won't likely use to get to the charms you DO want and will use. Did I mention how much I dislike the Lunar charm system?

Instead, I think Brawl feels like a box of tools that can work wherever you manage to cram them in, chock full of reflexives and effects that can potentially augment melee, martial arts, clinches, disarms, sundering, just about any kind of violent application.  =o)
The more widely applicable every charm is the better, I figure.  To me, thats what makes Brawl totally awsome.

There is only so much you can do with a single charm... and by the way... it's not impossible to do what you want, it's just really hard to do so. It's best to have short simple trees that do exactly what is needed by the solar brawler in the context of his needs.

Of course, it occurs to me that I may have come up with this system of how it 'should' be in an arbitrary manner.  I inferred this crap from how I interpret the CotI charms, compared with the core book.
I figured some justification on why I find contention with seemingly acceptable things was in order, sorry for rambling!

*shrugs* it's okay... but I feel that the charms I do put here are useful and can suppliment more than just brawl or hitting really hard.... ;;;

 

[Haku1]

And now on to a more specific reply!
I looked through some Brawl again after reading this(wtfs wrong with me?!), and a few things occurred to me.  These thoughts follow -

*nods* that usually helps, yes.

Thunderbolt Strike -
I noted Ox Stunning Blow and KnockOut Blow accomplish higher damage as well.  This makes me think, perhaps the effect on this custom charm is not unique enough to make it worthwhile?  I suppose that more damage is more damage, but if you had all those charms, youd end up needing to combo them to take advantage of your charm tree.  And since we can't let combo's rip all the time, one of these charms are gonna consistantly fall by the wayside in favor of another charm.


But I'd need to compare them side-by-side to know.

You're joking... right? Ox Stunning Blow doesn't do normal damage at all, it just gives die penalty in a long and wordy manner via 'stunning damage'.


Knockout blow is designed to knock someone out... and can't ever do lethal damage. Thunderbolt just goes... here... all your damage before extra successes? It's doubled... lethal, bashing or aggravated... doesn't matter... enjoy.


Comboing them would reslt in a wonderful synergy of instant KOs that won't eat too much of your essence.

Raptor Slaying Technique -
I don't quite agree that a die adder is necessary.  I think theres other ways to explore when it comes to getting past a defense.  To me this ideology is justified by the thought that Brawl doesn't try to *compete*, it does whatever is possible to win in any way.  It's more underhanded.  I figure dueling die pools is Melee's gig.  Some other options exist, but im lazy at the moment......

Unless you want to throw unparriable and undodgable attacks into brawl or step on the footsteps of Abyssal die-subtraction.... die-adding is the only way... of course, you -could- get a sucess buying/conversion charm, but that goes into the Lunar domain, I believe.

Golden Lightening Fist -
I guess im starting to like this one more.  Its also a logical leap from FoI.

Yeah... pretty much, beyond doing lethal damage. It's now... making your whole body a weapon.

Celestial Legion of One -
I changed my mind on this one, somewhat.  I still don't think that a direct die adder(ala excellent strike) is the way to go, however pools do need to be boosted at least somewhat.  A scene long pool booster I think would actually make some ammount of thematic sense.  Not to the degree that you would overpower an equally competant melee characters die pool, but some quick fix augmentation I think is in order to ease the strain.  


If I had my way with this charm, I'd dump down the augmentative potential, making the number more static, and make it reflexive.


It's absolutely true that I have to get past the guy's defenses first, but again, competing die pools I feel is the domain of Melee.

....


Competing die pools the domain of melee... you're -joking-, right? Look at Archery, Thrown, Martial Arts... they ALL have die-adders as well as various defensive measures. And if you range into the other exalted type charms, you can get parry charms in archery (Dragonblooded), defensive throw charms (Abyssal), martial arts I won't go into.

Anvil Crushing Blow -
You make a good point that clinches/holds happen in Martial Arts as well, and are not really taken into account during charm creation for the most part.  


The more I think about this one though, the more I don't care for it too much though... I'm not sure why....   =o/

I have changed it to just armour negation as opposed to simply nuking ALL soak... as it originally was... it got pointed out to me elsewhere just how nasty nuking ALL soak REALLY is.

Hill Crushing Shockwave -
Now don't misunderstand, I do agree that this charm deserves to be THE SHIT.  What I mean is that it should do something other than piercing damage.  Something better, too.  But uhh...  To be honest I'm not sure what.  


Hm.  On a side note, I'd say get rid of the charms variability and make it more like an insta-hit.  That makes it a little better, but still it could use more.  Something that I currently can't think of.  And I'm lazy...

Well... you -could- parry it if you had a perfect parry, you -could- dodge it if you can move out of range. And giving that the range is a multiplication of strength by 10, and a solar can in theory at this point have a strength of 9 (strength increasing exercise)... Good luck running out of the blast radius...


I did want to make it so that the attack gets a bonus of essence in damage post soak... but I thought... in power combat... this would be killer as you'd be rolling at least 8 die, and if you combo it with Leaping Tiger Attack, that'd be a good 12 die of damage in Power Combat or a good 6+ die of damage. Assuming ping damage...

Earth Dragon's Grasp -
You brought up a sidelong point, with the Abyssal tree.  It is built contrary to the ideology I am espousing.  Let it be known that I realize I'm goin out on a thin limb with my Brawl rants.  =o)


Still, I see this particular mechanic to be redundant.

Redundant? Think VERY carefully on this... this charm allows you to buy successes for clinches/holds, which than translates into -damage-. This is hardly a 'redundant' charm or a tree...


Also, I can not fit a charm like this into the normal brawl trees as is. Mainly due to the fact that the only effing clinch/hold charm in the core book is 'Dragon Coils'... that's -it-.

Escaping the Depths of the Ocean -
Contrary to what I've been spouting about how brawl should be this way and that way, I feel that a perfect defense that is dedicated to clinches is probably warranted.  As such, I think this is an appropriate exception.  I do like this charm.

Well... you can't exactly dodge or parry your way out of a clinch or a hold once in 'em... you need to basically -win- the roll to control, at which point, you don't want to run away... you want to do damage. ;

Man I just want to rape your charms and pull them out from under you or something....  I'm a raging asshole!  Well... Actually given the context of this forum, maybe I'm not that bad.  Heh.
MOK

Feh... you can try to rape the charms... but do note that I do think about how the charms should function, and that's why it's not as easy as raping them as they should be...

 

[MOK]

More good points!


Unfortunately those posts of mine were done at work away from the book which would otherwise make sure I wasnt full of shit.  And I did have a little bit of BS in there, as you pointed out.  A couple you've convinced me on, many not.  I'm still not quite convinced away from my little perceptions of Brawl, but the general ideas of my points have been made so I'm gonna shut up now.  I lack the stamina to argue anything for very long anyways.


Id be curious to see other peoples thoughts on these charms, all in all they are good.   Not perfect to me, but then, we've already covered that I'm arbitrary, anal, and illogical.  =o)