Big Alchemicals and Martial Arts

[Kindle]

Okay, I'm currently playing, and greatly enjoying, a Moonsilver Alchemical in a mixed circle. At first, I had no problem with my Personal Essence limiting how many charms I could have on me at any given time. However, as the months of gaming sessions have passed and my Permanent Essence is now nearing its limit (and my personal pool quickly shrinking too...if I want to remain mobile anyway), I'm finding that I have to start looking more closely at which charms I really want and which ones I won't be able  to get (well, that I can't take with me all the time, at least). I'm finding myself focusing more and more on charms that allow me to buy other charms that don't have an instillation cost.


I've already picked up Man-Machine and God-Machine Protocols. I also have the Pulse Cannon, the Optical Enhancement, and the Mobile Sensory Drone, all because they have submodels (and because they are a lot of fun :lol.


Now, I'm currently Essence 6 and I'm considering branching into Martial Arts. However, I was wondering how martial arts can really work, when I'm standing 20 to 30 feet high and most of my enemies are normal size. The campaign is taking place primarily in creation and, while I can see it working verses warstriders, Large Lunars, and, of course, other Alchemicals of similar size, I just can't see myself "dancing" around normal size enemies to gain some of the MA's charm advantages.


For this reason alone, I have decided to forgo getting Perfect Lotus Matrix, simply because I can't see myself pulling off most of the things the MA Styles describe the Artist doing.


Furthermore, I won't have room for the Perfect Lotus Matrix charm until I reach Essence 7, and I'm planning on being at least 30+ feet tall when I finally make it. Very few things will be an equal to my size at that point, which makes it very difficult to visualize myself using martial arts. Any advice or suggestions on how MAs would work at this size?


Thanks in advance for any and all responses.


P.S. Sorry for the long winded post...I guess I like to type. :cry:

 

[Silence In Daylight]

Which MAs are you considering for your character?

 

[Kindle]

I'm currently considering Celestial Monkey Style. This is largely because of the final charm in the tree, which would allow me to wear armor AND halve the strength requirement of any weapon I wish to wield.


I doubt my Story teller will allow it, but I've always pictured my character standing 30+ feet tall, wielding a 20+ foot long Warstrider Grand Diaklave. With Celestial Monkey Style, I could conceivably do this. :twisted:

 

[Persell]

Aren't arrays a nice way to cut down installation cost? I mean you will pretty much always use the same charms in your close combat layout for example anyway.

 

[Kindle]

Yes and no


The problem I have with arrays, at least from the way I understand them, is that once you place charms into an array, unlike Combos, they can ONLY be used in that array. If you want you use the charms individually, you have to purchase them a second time. So, while arrays do cut down on the installation costs, they end up actually costing you more in the long run, if you plan on using any one, or all, separately from the others.


Other than a very select few, I've yet to really find any charms that I could stomach giving up their individual abilities, in order to, fuel an array that, by their very nature, have very limited use.


If this limitation wasn't there and they still reduced installation costs, than I would've been purchasing arrays like a mad man, right from the start of the campaign (alas, this is probably why they put in the limitation :cry

 

[Persell]

How often would you really install single combat charms?

 

[Quchu]

Transitory Augmentaion of Dexterity and Plasma Thruster Assembly are extremely often useful by themselves... So it kinda hurts to put them in an Array, but without them Arrays aren't that fearsome as they should be.


Well, here is a bad idea. Alchemicals don't actually learn Martial Arts. They download it. So, you could just buy the entire Celestial Monkey Style and install Perfected Lotus Matrix to benefit from the Celestial Godbody Understanding (is that the name?) without having to dance around enemies one tenth your size for a while... Though, it would be a huge waste of experience points for such miniscule benefits...


By the way. do these MA persistent effect limit you to MA?

 

[Kindle]

How often would you really install single combat charms?

Often, actually. Again, while arrays are nice because they reduce installation costs, between the willpower cost, along with the limited situational use, I've found it better to keep most (not all) combat charms out of arrays.


Other Exalted can build huge 3, 4, 5, or possibly even 6 charm combos and add a defensive charm into it, just incase the enemy manages to survive their mighty combo. However, an Alchemical can't really have a defensive charm placed in their arrays because then it limits the use of that defensive charm to only being accessible when they access the whole array. Furthermore, if I don't build a defense into the array, then fire it off, I'm left with an inability to switch to a defensive charm, should my array fail to kill my enemy. This makes arrays even more situational than combos.


If I wanted to have this defensive charm in my array AND have it separate, I'd then have to install it a second time, which kind of reduces the benefits of the reduced installation cost.


The only exception I've found to most arrays is when building ranged attacks. This is largely because I tend not to worry as much about defensive charms, when I have a good distance on my enemy. So, yes, my Plasma Cannon is in an array set up, so that I can cause some devastation from afar. Plus, since it costs so much to fire the cannon, I'm not nearly as concerned about burning up my willpower from excessive array use.

Transitory Augmentaion of Dexterity and Plasma Thruster Assembly are extremely often useful by themselves... So it kinda hurts to put them in an Array, but without them Arrays aren't that fearsome as they should be.

Other examples of charms I'd hate to put into an array, but would be very beneficial had I done so...Thanks!

Well, here is a bad idea. Alchemicals don't actually learn Martial Arts. They download it. So, you could just buy the entire Celestial Monkey Style and install Perfected Lotus Matrix to benefit from the Celestial Godbody Understanding (is that the name?) without having to dance around enemies one tenth your size for a while... Though, it would be a huge waste of experience points for such miniscule benefits...

Sadly, since the ST hasn't been stingy with exp, I've considered putting some aside to do this exact thing. However, like you said, its not the greatest idea and its an awful lot of wasted exp, for such a small benefit. However, There are some nice charms in Celestial Monkey that I'd love to use. Unfortunately, most of them give the impression that you must be bobbing and weaving around your opponent. THIS is my dilemma. How do I "bob and weave" around someone who can barely reach my knee caps?

By the way. do these MA persistent effect limit you to MA?

I'm not sure what you are asking here? Are you asking if the effects of the last charm are only limited to when I use that MA? If so, than, I believe the answer to this no. It is a permanent charm, that, from how I understand it, just gives the benefit of allowing the Artists to wear armor while using this MA (so, in this case, I guess the answer is yes), as well as reducing strength requirements for weapons across the board.

 

[Fruan]

Um... are we all on the same page here? While all the charms in an array need to be installed or uninstalled together, they don't all need to be <i>activated</i> together - Putting a charm in an array doesn't restrict your use of it.


While I might be stating the obvious here... I don't know. I'm getting very confused by some of the points people are making: Everyone does get this, right?

 

[Persell]

Um... are we all on the same page here? While all the charms in an array need to be installed or uninstalled together, they don't all need to be <i>activated</i> together - Putting a charm in an array doesn't restrict your use of it.
While I might be stating the obvious here... I don't know. I'm getting very confused by some of the points people are making: Everyone does get this, right?

I actually wanted to say the very same. Installation together yes, activation together no.


And I actually would disagree with you kindle. You will not very often want to install a single combat charm. Where is the use in only installing a defense charm or only some offense charms?


There may be things like light combat duty on diplomatic missions where you have a mix of things installed but getting those very basic charms a second time ( I mean if you mix you don't get more than 2-3 combat charms installed anyway ) is not a xp sink and the benefits are actually very very big.

 

[Kindle]

Um... are we all on the same page here? While all the charms in an array need to be installed or uninstalled together, they don't all need to be <i>activated</i> together - Putting a charm in an array doesn't restrict your use of it.
While I might be stating the obvious here... I don't know. I'm getting very confused by some of the points people are making: Everyone does get this, right?

Actually, you stated something that wasn't that obvious to me after all. After reading more closely, I see what you mean. It doesn't say that you have to use all the charms together in an array, like I thought it had (and, I might add, like my ST said they did).ops: I'll have to point this out to my ST and see if I can do some "retro fitting." This has the potential to open up a lot more personal essence that I originally didn't think I had access to (if he lets me do some refitting that is. :?).


Never the less, while I truly thank you for correcting this, seemingly obvious, mistake, it still doesn't answer my original question, which is about being 30 feet tall and using MAs against much smaller enemies.

 

[Persell]

I don't see the problem with that... we already got warstriders doing martial arts in the setting, so what is the problem?

 

[Kindle]

I actually wanted to say the very same. Installation together yes, activation together no.
And I actually would disagree with you kindle. You will not very often want to install a single combat charm. Where is the use in only installing a defense charm or only some offense charms?


There may be things like light combat duty on diplomatic missions where you have a mix of things installed but getting those very basic charms a second time ( I mean if you mix you don't get more than 2-3 combat charms installed anyway ) is not a xp sink and the benefits are actually very very big.

I agree with you, now that I have been made aware of my mistake. The only reason I was installing single combat charms was because I didn't want to lose their individual benefits. Now that I've learned that I don't lose them, I'll be installing many more arrays in the future.

 

[Fruan]

The other great thing about arrays is that they offer every possible combo of the charms installed - This means there is no downside to putting simple, supplimental or extra action charms together in an array like there can be for normal exalts forming a combo: If you don't want to use them together, just activate a different valid combo from the charms in the array.


You'll also note that charms don't even need to be comboable to be put in an array. Your arrays should always have a commitment cost that's a perfect multiple of 4 - Just throw in extra charms from a related context (Soak adding charms for a melee combo, say) to get maximum discount efficiecy while not making the installation restrictions too much of a bother.


Arrays *rock*.

 

[Kindle]

I don't see the problem with that... we already got warstriders doing martial arts in the setting, so what is the problem?

Yes, canon allows it and yes, I guess that does answer my question, but I was asking more about how you would handle the visual aspects of it, not whether or not it was allowed.


How would you describe a Warstrider doing a flying leap kick, or a wheel kick, at a normal size opponent? Sure, its allowed, but descriptively, I'm having problems with it. I'm already finding it harder and harder to pull off stunts, simply because I'm so much larger than most of my opponents.


So, I guess the real question I should be asking, is what cool stunts have people pulled off while using a Martial Art in a Warstrider or as a large Alchemical and, more specifically, against smaller opponents? If I can get some cool answers, I might be convinced to go ahead and get the Perfect Lotus Matrix Charm.

 

[Kindle]

The other great thing about arrays is that they offer every possible combo of the charms installed - This means there is no downside to putting simple, supplimental or extra action charms together in an array like there can be for normal exalts forming a combo: If you don't want to use them together, just activate a different valid combo from the charms in the array.
You'll also note that charms don't even need to be comboable to be put in an array. Your arrays should always have a commitment cost that's a perfect multiple of 4 - Just throw in extra charms from a related context (Soak adding charms for a melee combo, say) to get maximum discount efficiecy while not making the installation restrictions too much of a bother.


Arrays *rock*.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Persell]

I don't see the problem with that... we already got warstriders doing martial arts in the setting, so what is the problem?

Yes, canon allows it and yes, I guess that does answer my question, but I was asking more about how you would handle the visual aspects of it, not whether or not it was allowed.


How would you describe a Warstrider doing a flying leap kick, or a wheel kick, at a normal size opponent? Sure, its allowed, but descriptively, I'm having problems with it. I'm already finding it harder and harder to pull off stunts, simply because I'm so much larger than most of my opponents.


So, I guess the real question I should be asking, is what cool stunts have people pulled off while using a Martial Art in a Warstrider or as a large Alchemical and, more specifically, against smaller opponents? If I can get some cool answers, I might be convinced to go ahead and get the Perfect Lotus Matrix Charm.

Oh, that's easy, crush the earth around them, destroy stuff they are standing on with kicks, pick them up then throw them up a few feet and then give them a flying spinkick. Or in short: Start seeing the stuntadvantages of your size rather then being limited by our usual concept of small framed martial arts fighters.

 

[Kindle]

Oh, that's easy, crush the earth around them, destroy stuff they are standing on with kicks, pick them up then throw them up a few feet and then give them a flying spinkick. Or in short: Start seeing the stuntadvantages of your size rather then being limited by our usual concept of small framed martial arts fighters.

Those are pretty cool ideas. I'll have to try them out during the next session. Thanks!

 

[lowguppy]

Also, as I understand it, it is possible to commit from peripheral essence. It leaves you with more personal essence, but once you blow that, you don't get the gradual anima banner, you light right the fuck up.


Essence Capacitors to power your artifacts are pretty handy too.

 

[Persell]

Also, as I understand it, it is possible to commit from peripheral essence. It leaves you with more personal essence, but once you blow that, you don't get the gradual anima banner, you light right the fuck up.
Essence Capacitors to power your artifacts are pretty handy too.

Installation cost has to be paid from personal essence unlike artifact attunement for example.

 

[lowguppy]

AH, right right.

 

[Silence In Daylight]

How would you describe a Warstrider doing a flying leap kick, or a wheel kick, at a normal size opponent? Sure, its allowed, but descriptively, I'm having problems with it. I'm already finding it harder and harder to pull off stunts, simply because I'm so much larger than most of my opponents.
So, I guess the real question I should be asking, is what cool stunts have people pulled off while using a Martial Art in a Warstrider or as a large Alchemical and, more specifically, against smaller opponents? If I can get some cool answers, I might be convinced to go ahead and get the Perfect Lotus Matrix Charm.

Oh, that's easy, crush the earth around them, destroy stuff they are standing on with kicks, pick them up then throw them up a few feet and then give them a flying spinkick. Or in short: Start seeing the stuntadvantages of your size rather then being limited by our usual concept of small framed martial arts fighters.

 For some inspiration, go watch a soccer player dribble (?) a soccer ball all over himself. Or a group of people kicking a bean bag around...

 

[Obsidian Soul]

So you've been playing for, game time, a century?  Or did your ST just allow you guys to start with 1000XP and say that you were a century old?  Because, if neither of them can apply, I really don't see how you could have an Essence of 6, unless there was some major magical dweep done.

 

[Kindle]

So you've been playing for' date=' game time, a century?  Or did your ST just allow you guys to start with 1000XP and say that you were a century old?  Because, if neither of them can apply, I really don't see how you could have an Essence of 6, unless there was some major magical dweep done.[/quote']
No, we didn't start with 1,000 exp and yes, I'm actually 263 years old, as of the last session.


I've kept track of how much we've earned and, while not quite 1,000 exp, its getting close to that. If there is some reason that I need to have at least 1,000 exp to be Essence 6, than it isn't listed anywhere in the Alchemical book. The only thing they list is the age requirements, which my ST was aware of and allowed me to meet right from the outset. This might not be canon, per say, but we are playing a rather high powered campaign and he was well aware of what power levels we might reach and has yet to discourage it. Despite our groups overall high Essence levels, he has yet to fail to challenge, or entertain us, both on, and off the battle field. Isn't that what role playing is all about, the fun?


Furthermore, we have been playing for quite some time and, as I mentioned in a previous post, my ST hasn't been stingy with the exp he's been giving us. Likewise, he's not afraid to allow us several years of down time, if the plot allows it.


Actually, this has been one of the most enjoyable Exalted campaigns I've been in and its not because of my high Essence level. It's largely because the ST has really thought out his plot, knows what to expect from us and has been able to keep the campaign flowing very smoothly. He's also rather stingy on combat, focusing far more on the intrigue and interaction with his npcs and the world, which has proven very entertaining for me, since I'm relatively new to creation. Everything seems to be new and very different from what I've been used to. Role playing this naivety has been very fun. :lol:

 

[Obsidian Soul]

There is nothing wrong with starting a character at an older age, after all, it allows you to buy a higher Essence sooner rather than later.  I use the 1000 XP sort of as a bench mark.  As an ST, I assume that a heroic mortal or an Exalt will do, on average, one exciting thing a season in their first century of life, gaining them between 2 and 3 XP.  If you assume that the starting character averages at age 20, that means that they will have between 800 and 1200 XP by age 100, with 1000 XP being the average.