Anime & Manga Shonen Manga & Anime Storylines

[White Masquerade]

Quick question here for those into shounen manga and anime. Please look at this from a writer’s perspective for me. This is the same question as in the poll. Does anyone actually enjoy the story in these series?? Like, do you actually enjoy reading/watching these shows and is it because of the story, or you enjoy it for something else?

From Attack on Titan to Dragonball Super and My Hero Academia, are you actually enjoying these? When I sit back and really think about how well the story for these series like Bleach and Naruto are written, I always come to just one conclusion: they’re terrible.

Great characters but wow- would it be too much to ask to have a story that makes sense? Without spoilers, there are events going on in each of these series, that’s just about being super over-the-top. I see YouTubers praising how well the stories connect and how well the author illustrates certain points and I just don’t get it. Is it just me? What are your thoughts?

 

[Eternal Alchemist]

It depends on some story arcs are nice, others not so much. As I got older, I enjoy One Piece more than when I was younger.

 

[Spoiled Bread]

Shonen's main target demographic are young boys, that's why cool and fun power are more prioritized rather than wholly sensible storylines. I loves shonen but the older I get the more I criticize them.

Naruto for example has solid power system and unique world setting... that Kishimoto didn't utilize in favor of walking tailed nukes and moon alien. The young me wouldn't even think it this way lol. Demon Slayer is fine, but I think the story is cheesy and mostly carried by animation. MHA is just going up and down depending on the arcs. One Piece is one of the few shonen that I think aged well.

 

[White Masquerade]

It depends on some story arcs are nice, others not so much. As I got older, I enjoy One Piece more than when I was younger.

Really? That’s interesting. From what I’ve gathered, One Piece is more “stable” but I hear it has over 1000 episodes for the anime, lol. It’s hard to believe something didn’t go bad in there. I read about Luffy’s new thing, but it seems like devil fruits are starting to get really strange no?

Shonen's main target demographic are young boys, that's why cool and fun power are more prioritized rather than wholly sensible storylines. I loves shonen but the older I get the more I criticize them.

Naruto for example has solid power system and unique world setting... that Kishimoto didn't utilize in favor of walking tailed nukes and moon alien. The young me wouldn't even think it this way lol. Demon Slayer is fine, but I think the story is cheesy and mostly carried by animation. MHA is just going up and down depending on the arcs. One Piece is one of the few shonen that I think aged well.

Thank God! I thought I was crazy. Great answer too. My next question to you is then how do these series last so long? The Naruto anime lasted 10 years I think, Boruto the sequel has lasted a few years, and Naruto has had multiple movies. It can’t be the truth that only little boys across the world made that happen, lol. There were other people that loved the show/manga to make it have THAT much success.

And that’s what I’m trying to figure out. Who are these people and do they enjoy “okay” stories. As we’re on a writing website, maybe we/me am a writing snob, and what I think is a bad story is excellent to people who don’t write?

 

[Eternal Alchemist]

One Piece among all the big shōnen has essentially been the most consistent quality wise. Oda also keeps going with the same premise since he started. The author just wanted to draw weird silhouettes and some interesting stories. Not all the arcs have been the best ever of course, but I will say that the majority of One Piece bad arcs are actually at the beginning (Syrup Village, Orange Town, and Drum Island) which funny enough are the arcs about recruiting some of the crew members (Usopp, Tony and Nami). Granted, Nami get an awesome arc with Arlong just soon after.

I don't follow Boruto, used to read Naruto, but I still have some ideas how things could have been done in a better way. Overall, will say the beginning of Naruto had the right idea.

The newer ones will admit did surprise me with their stories, Jujutsu Kaisen and Chainsawman being a big standout to me, at least as they are doing new things and dropping some tropes that indeed needed to go away in this decade. They are going a darker route in general which is already different and remind me of some good moments from Hunter X Hunter.

MHA simply catches my attention from times to times, since I really enjoy reading comic books and the author is obviously a fan of American comic books, but I will say that it isn't too high priority for me to watch.

Dragon Ball Super simply watched and read out of nostalgia, but will definitely say that you can clearly see when Akira Toriyama decide to not get involved too much...the previous arc of DBS (Manga) was easily the worst arc and written mostly by Toyotaro (the new guy drawing the manga).

Hunter X Hunter is excellent and probably one of the best shonen of all time...but it is so slow in releasing anything, that I don't consider it a regular in the shonen list and doubt that we will see the ending of it.

 

[Spoiled Bread]

Really? That’s interesting. From what I’ve gathered, One Piece is more “stable” but I hear it has over 1000 episodes for the anime, lol. It’s hard to believe something didn’t go bad in there. I read about Luffy’s new thing, but it seems like devil fruits are starting to get really strange no?


Thank God! I thought I was crazy. Great answer too. My next question to you is then how do these series last so long? The Naruto anime lasted 10 years I think, Boruto the sequel has lasted a few years, and Naruto has had multiple movies. It can’t be the truth that only little boys across the world made that happen, lol. There were other people that loved the show/manga to make it have THAT much success.

And that’s what I’m trying to figure out. Who are these people and do they enjoy “okay” stories. As we’re on a writing website, maybe we/me am a writing snob, and what I think is a bad story is excellent to people who don’t write?

Because people don't necessarily need great stories in their shonen. Most people just need the fun. Great sensible story might get praise from people who really delve deep into the meat of the narrative but fun stories generates more fun for more people.

 

[White Masquerade]

One Piece among all the big shōnen has essentially been the most consistent quality wise. Oda also keeps going with the same premise since he started. The author just wanted to draw weird silhouettes and some interesting stories. Not all the arcs have been the best ever of course, but I will say that the majority of One Piece bad arcs are actually at the beginning (Syrup Village, Orange Town, and Drum Island) which funny enough are the arcs about recruiting some of the crew members (Usopp, Tony and Nami). Granted, Nami get an awesome arc with Arlong just soon after.

I don't follow Boruto, used to read Naruto, but I still have some ideas how things could have been done in a better way. Overall, will say the beginning of Naruto had the right idea.

The newer ones will admit did surprise me with their stories, Jujutsu Kaisen and Chainsawman being a big standout to me, at least as they are doing new things and dropping some tropes that indeed needed to go away in this decade. They are going a darker route in general which is already different and remind me of some good moments from Hunter X Hunter.

MHA simply catches my attention from times to times, since I really enjoy reading comic books and the author is obviously a fan of American comic books, but I will say that it isn't too high priority for me to watch.

Dragon Ball Super simply watched and read out of nostalgia, but will definitely say that you can clearly see when Akira Toriyama decide to not get involved too much...the previous arc of DBS (Manga) was easily the worst arc and written mostly by Toyotaro (the new guy drawing the manga).

Hunter X Hunter is excellent and probably one of the best shonen of all time...but it is so slow in releasing anything, that I don't consider it a regular in the shonen list and doubt that we will see the ending of it.

Now, you are talking my language. We can become friends now because I get you. I also think HxH is one of the best all-time. Watching it was actually the reason I got into writing myself and eventually joined RPN. I wanted more, but the author just had no more content to animate. It caused me to watch a ton of Shonen trying to find something similar, but they've all been disappointing =/.

JJK has been interesting, but it feels like something is missing to make it perfect- not sure what. I agree with the darker being a better trend as everything pretty much before has the hero always winning (even when they probably shouldn't have (power of friends, a master skill they've always been hiding, etc.)

It sounds like some series you watch/read are because they don't suck and it's something to do? So let me ask. If say Hunter x Hunter or a new Shonen came out that had great characters and a gripping amazing storyline, would you drop the other "okay" Shonen to keep up with it? This is assuming your time is limited.

Because people don't necessarily need great stories in their shonen. Most people just need the fun. Great sensible story might get praise from people who really delve deep into the meat of the narrative but fun stories generates more fun for more people.

Ohoho Spoiled, it looks like I'm going to get into it with you. Tell me this:

For your birthday/graduation/party, would you prefer a cake that looks great and doesn't taste terrible OR a cake that looks great and tastes amazing?

I know this isn't Shonen, but if you remember Harry Potter, that was a series with great characters and a great/consistent story. IMO it's likely one of the greatest fiction series written in recent times. I'm sure someone would love to read Harry Potter rather than some regular fantasy series that has no sensible connections or substance (however toxic and unrealistic the characters might be)?

Or even a dating example. Yes, there's someone you know that you get with, just to have someone/something to do (and hell it might even be a great time), but then there's always that somebody who commands your attention (and might make you drop the other person!) because they are simply a higher caliber. Right?

I agree a lot of people consume "okay" shonen/stories for fun, but wouldn't you agree that if a shonen of true substance came out, they'd gravitate towards that without question??

 

[Spoiled Bread]

For your birthday/graduation/party, would you prefer a cake that looks great and doesn't taste terrible OR a cake that looks great and tastes amazing?

This is a no brainer choice though. Of course I want my martabak cake stuffed full with cheese, chocolate, condensed milk and peanut crumbs. But I'm not sure if everyone who attends will actualy eat it.

I agree a lot of people consume "okay" shonen/stories for fun, but wouldn't you agree that if a shonen of true substance came out, they'd gravitate towards that without question??

Not necessarily. My friend has been liking Blue Lock and saying that its amazing, but I dont even want to try it because its a football story, which is funny because the only sport anime I really enjoy is the one about karuta, if that's even can be considered sport lol. And I can't get him to watch Spy x Family for more than five minutes even though its the shonen story I enjoy the most in recent years.

 

[Eternal Alchemist]

In general, yes, if a show comes along that's better, I would probably drop the least interesting one. Usually, if a show doesn't keep my attention... I end up just dropping it. I don't think anybody has enough time to watch everything coming out. Sometime, I even go back and check some older shows to see if it was worth the hype or not, but well generally I stick to a few shōnen series. Yeah, the new series aren't as consistent as Hunter X Hunter, but they do have some fun bits. Dr Stone is an example of a series that I just dropped eventually...I had fun at the beginning, but lost interest.

 

[LeapOfFool]

I agree a lot of people consume "okay" shonen/stories for fun, but wouldn't you agree that if a shonen of true substance came out, they'd gravitate towards that without question??

But isn't what qualifies as a shonen of "true substance" down to personal taste at the end of the day?

I mean, if you asked on the MHA subreddit, I'm 100% sure that most on there would agree that it is a shonen of true substance.

 

[White Masquerade]

But isn't what qualifies as a shonen of "true substance" down to personal taste at the end of the day?

I mean, if you asked on the MHA subreddit, I'm 100% sure that most on there would agree that it is a shonen of true substance.

Nice question, Leap. I absolutely love it. Thank you for saying that.

In my opinion, what makes a shonen good might come down to personal taste, BUT I think there are certain things you can look at to decide if it really is.

Like if the author changed the lore/setting midway through the story. That’s bad. And a lot of shonen do that. Something that was important and true before was suddenly a lie and not important anymore. Or characters who die are resurrected or kept alive by something that comes out of nowhere/has never been mentioned before. If you read MHA, someone recently was supposed to die, but got kept alive by something sooooo random.

Yet people in the MHA subreddit might think an inconsistent show like that is top-notch quality? Something is wrong there.

It’s like saying all the low-effort Sword Art Online copycat shows are better than Sword Art Online. No matter what the fans in their copycat subreddit say, I’m sure a normal person could say for sure which one is better.

This is a no brainer choice though. Of course I want my martabak cake stuffed full with cheese, chocolate, condensed milk and peanut crumbs. But I'm not sure if everyone who attends will actualy eat it.


Not necessarily. My friend has been liking Blue Lock and saying that its amazing, but I dont even want to try it because its a football story, which is funny because the only sport anime I really enjoy is the one about karuta, if that's even can be considered sport lol. And I can't get him to watch Spy x Family for more than five minutes even though it’s the shonen story I enjoy the most in recent years.

Just to experiment with the topic we have here, I’d say to give Blue Lock a try and see whether it takes the place of another “okay” series you might be tolerating. Blue Lock is a recent one I’d objectively say is a really good Shonen. It had the same magic as Demon Slayer’s first season. Which is saying a lot.

In general, yes, if a show comes along that's better, I would probably drop the least interesting one. Usually, if a show doesn't keep my attention... I end up just dropping it. I don't think anybody has enough time to watch everything coming out. Sometime, I even go back and check some older shows to see if it was worth the hype or not, but well generally I stick to a few shōnen series. Yeah, the new series aren't as consistent as Hunter X Hunter, but they do have some fun bits. Dr Stone is an example of a series that I just dropped eventually...I had fun at the beginning, but lost interest.

Definitely agree with you on Dr. Stone. It was great at the start, but doesn’t have that “oomph” to bring it into amazing. It’s something I still watch now, only because the story is fresh and it’s not terrible to watch. It’s not the car I want to have, but it’s not a bad car to drive, lol.

 

[LeapOfFool]

my opinion, what makes a shonen good might come down to personal taste, BUT I think there are certain things you can look at to decide if it really is.

Like if the author changed the lore/setting midway through the story. That’s bad. And a lot of shonen do that. Something that was important and true before was suddenly a lie and not important anymore. Or characters who die are resurrected or kept alive by something that comes out of nowhere/has never been mentioned before.

But all of those are still just subjective opinions on what makes something a good shonen.

It’s like saying all the low-effort Sword Art Online copycat shows are better than Sword Art Online. No matter what the fans in their copycat subreddit say, I’m sure a normal person could say for sure which one is better.

But why would the "normal" person be the one in the right?

 

[White Masquerade]

But all of those are still just subjective opinions on what makes something a good shonen.


But why would the "normal" person be the one in the right?

!? So you wouldn’t care if a series changed its history in the middle of it? Like in Pokémon how you need to love on and spend time with your Pokemon to make them evolve- but midway through suddenly all you have to do is pat their head and they evolve. That kind of unexplained and convenient change wouldn’t bother you?

And it’s not that the normal person is right, more that they know the difference between something that’s good quality and something that is not.

 

[LeapOfFool]

So you wouldn’t care if a series changed its history in the middle of it?

I would care, but that doesn't mean that it's some kind of objective measure of wether it's good or not. It just means it isn't for me.

And it’s not that the normal person is right, more that they know the difference between something that’s good quality and something that is not.

My point was how the "normal" person would still have an subjective opinion.

I mean, if the other person enjoyed a SAO knock-off more than the original, who is to say that they can't tell the difference between quality better than someone who preferred SAO over the knock-off?

 

[White Masquerade]

I would care, but that doesn't mean that it's some kind of objective measure of wether it's good or not. It just means it isn't for me.


My point was how the "normal" person would still have an subjective opinion.

I mean, if the other person enjoyed a SAO knock-off more than the original, who is to say that they can't tell the difference between quality better than someone who preferred SAO over the knock-off?

I'm seeing where we disagree here. If I'm correct, you're saying that good vs. bad shonen is subjective and depends on the person viewing it? I don't see it that way. I believe there are things that can be done, that are just straight-up "bad" and "bad-writing". Whoever is watching the show can feel how they feel about it, but their opinion doesn't change the facts/reality.

Like using another Pokemon example. Someone can feel Pikachu is the strongest one or that how strong Pokemon are is subjective. No way is my answer. Someone might like Pikachu enough to think that, but there are other Pokemon that would beat it in seconds. It's a fact and a reality.

So if it's all subjective, would you say there's no such thing as a bad shonen then? Are they all equal? None are great and none are bad?