Moonshadow Caste advantages

[Persell]

This may be covered in E:tA but I don't recall seeing it anywhere..


Eclipse caste solars are recognised throughout creation as being diplomats, and whilst there is no systemic rule regarding their treatment by spirits and other beings of power, it's generally a given that they get a certain degree of recognition in this respect.


What though of their fallen brethren the Moonshadows? Whilst their exalted shard has been tainted by oblivion, the caste is still a reflection (albeit a dark one) of the Eclipse. Does this mean that they are granted the same kind of unofficial privileges in the underworld? (ie not being instantly attacked when walking through enemy territory, as long as they behave themselves)


Further would the aforementioned members of the spirit courts and even other exalts grant the Moonshadow the benefit of the doubt diplomacy-wise? Whilst they would be recognised as being harbingers of death, would ancient protocols be paid lip service to in deference to their original caste?


I'd be interested in everyone's opinion, thanks.

 

[Joseph]

Eclipse caste solars are recognised throughout creation as being diplomats, and whilst there is no systemic rule regarding their treatment by spirits and other beings of power, it's generally a given that they get a certain degree of recognition in this respect.

Um, there ARE systematic rules regarding their treatment by spirits and other beings of power.  Systematic rules that were worked out in ancient pacts.  Eclipse Caste members may not be attacked, harmed, or hindered while on diplomatic duty; doing so breaks ancient pacts that seem to have SUCH dire consequences that it is more or less stated in the rules that no one is going to break them, period.  

What though of their fallen brethren the Moonshadows? Whilst their exalted shard has been tainted by oblivion, the caste is still a reflection (albeit a dark one) of the Eclipse. Does this mean that they are granted the same kind of unofficial privileges in the underworld? (ie not being instantly attacked when walking through enemy territory, as long as they behave themselves)

Again, the Eclipse Caste priveledges are QUITE official.  Moonshadow Caste gets nothing of the sort; many beings will be, by their own choice, receptive to them for the same reason they are receptive to most diplomacy from powerful sources, but they could just attack the Moonshadow if they wanted.

Further would the aforementioned members of the spirit courts and even other exalts grant the Moonshadow the benefit of the doubt diplomacy-wise?

I don't know what you mean, benefit of the doubt.  Diplomacy is taken pretty seriously by most major powers in the Age of Sorrows, because abusing or betraying it in any way just marks you as the lowest sort of scum, and will ensure you won't get the benefit of diplomacy in the future.  If a Moonshadow says he is there to be diplomatic, most people will BELIEVE him, simply because if he lies, it ensures his Deathlord master's diplomats won't be received any longer, and it's almost never the case that that sort of sacrifice is worth whatever the diplomat could achieve.


Why would they NOT give the benefit of the doubt?  They can still attack without breaking ancient pacts, though, they just probably won't.

Whilst they would be recognised as being harbingers of death, would ancient protocols be paid lip service to in deference to their original caste?

Some individuals might, but they certainly don't have to.  They'd probably still hear the Moonshadow out for the same reason they'd hear ANY emissary from a powerful being or group out, but no protocols are enforced on them; that's for Eclipses only.

 

[Darkon]

There is something about this Moonshadow Caste that I have been curious about.  On the old EC, I was made aware of what Joseph had stated about the Moonshadows lacking the diplomatic protection of the Eclipse caste.


What I've been thinking about doing is giving that same diplomatic protection to the Moonshadows BUT only in the courts of the Underworld.


For instance, the Eclipse caste does not receive diplomatic protection from ghosts like it does from the Fair Folk and other spirits, but I fail to see why the Malfeans couldn't have imposed some kind of pacts to give the Moonshadows the same kind of protection to aid them in their duties in dealing with other ghost courts or with other Deathlords and what not.


Would this be a good idea?  If not, then why not?  I had thought that the Malfeans even though they may not be chummy chummy were united in their efforts against Creation.  More so than their Deathlords.  This could help the Moonshadows to work with other ghostly courts in the Underworld.

 

[Joseph]

What I've been thinking about doing is giving that same diplomatic protection to the Moonshadows BUT only in the courts of the Underworld.
For instance, the Eclipse caste does not receive diplomatic protection from ghosts like it does from the Fair Folk and other spirits, but I fail to see why the Malfeans couldn't have imposed some kind of pacts to give the Moonshadows the same kind of protection to aid them in their duties in dealing with other ghost courts or with other Deathlords and what not.


Would this be a good idea?  If not, then why not?  

I don't think it's a good idea because:


-In most cases you wouldn't need it; the VAST majority of the Underworld is simply NOT going to fuck with the diplomat of a Deathlord, period.  


-In the rare cases where it would come into play, it really retracts from the situation.  These are cases like going down into the depths of the Labyrinth to parley with an ancient Nephwrack that may predate the Deathlords themselves, with substantial power in his own right and hordes of minions.  There should ALWAYS be a edge of threat in such meetings, and uncircumventable diplomatic immunity only retracts from the possibility of that edge of threat being there, because the Moonshadow knows he'd be safe as long as he played by the rules.


Eclipses need the immunity because they don't have an organization backing them right now; anyone and everyone could potentially comfortably try to fuck them over with minimal consequence if they succeed.  Abyssals have the Deathlords behind them, both in word and in action.  They simply don't need the immunity, because in any case where it wouldn't kill the mood, the power of the Deathlord backing them is enough to keep people in line.

 

[uteck]

What are consequences of breaking that ancient pact?  I don't recall seeing that, but I can image some Immaculate deciding that it does not apply to him anymore, and attacking the Eclipse on general principle.  That could be a odd plot twist.  Could you trick someone into breaking it or mind control them into it?  Or would the forces of creation prevent that from happening?


My Eclipse just pissed of some powerful people and will soon have a price on his head.  What if he is attacked while on a diplomatic mission for someone else?  I read it as only protecting the character from the people he is visiting, not from third parties.  But then if the diplomat is killed by outside forces, that can have a similar effect as being killed by the guards of the person you are visiting.

 

[Fruan]

What are consequences of breaking that ancient pact?  

While not specifically detailed in the power description, I think it would be very apropriate to have the consequence be the same as that of breaking an oath under an Eclipse's anima power, with the first botch generated from it very likely applying to the attack that broke the pact.

 

[uteck]

My ST just pointed out to me that the Pacts that protect Eclipse while traveling on business to someone, does not apply to Dragon-Bloods, Lunars, or other beings of Creation.  That really makes it less useful.  I can understabd why it is so, since when the pacts were made the Solars ruled Creation, but now it is gapping hole that renders the rest of it very vulnrable.