Brawling Aids & Melee & Martial Arts

[Persell]

I was just looking to see what people thought about this. A cestus/ fighting gauntlet can be used either with the brawling or melee ability. Does this apply to charms governing these abilities? I think it does. God kicking boots (which I think the name sucks) can they be used with either brawl or melee abilities as they are weapons for the foot? And therefore can charms governing these abilities be used to augment kicking while wearing them? I think so. Now here comes the biggie. Tiger claws/ Razor claws are the same weapon, the former a non-artifact and the latter an artifact. Tiger claws are listed in the main book as brawling aids, so they can be used for both brawl and melee (and charms for those abilities too?). In the Dawn caste book they introduce Tiger Style Martial arts. Now tigerclaws/ razor claws can be used with Martial Arts. Whew. So now they are universal weapons. So a character using Razor Claws, and knowing charms from Melee, Brawl, and Martial Arts can build a combo that uses charms from each, so long as the supplemental charms all come from the same tree, and the dice roll contains the same ability. Is this correct?

 

[Joseph]

So a character using Razor Claws' date=' and knowing charms from Melee, Brawl, and Martial Arts can build a combo that uses charms from each, so long as the supplemental charms all come from the same tree, and the dice roll contains the same ability. Is this correct?[/quote']
So long as all the Supplemental, Simple, AND Extra Action Charms came from the same Ability, and the dice roll contains the same Ability, yes.


You could certainly make a Tiger Style Combo that included Heavenly Guardian Defense, and use Razor Claws for both the Martial Arts attack and the Melee Perfect Block, if that is what you are asking.

 

[MikeOQuinn]

As I understand it, Tiger/Razor Claws only become Martial Arts weapons when a character is using Tiger Form charms. Otherwise, they are treated like regular brawling aids.


This is like one of the Sidereal forms that uses a sword as it's favored weapon. The sword is not a Martial Arts weapon in itself, but these charms can be used to augment it's function as though it were such a one.


I'll try and look up references for these beliefs in a bit. My books are still in my car.


[Edit: I believe I just answered a question that you didn't ask. So I am forced to say...


Yeah, what he said.]

 

[Joseph]

As I understand it, Tiger/Razor Claws only become Martial Arts weapons when a character is using Tiger Form charms. Otherwise, they are treated like regular brawling aids.
This is like one of the Sidereal forms that uses a sword as it's favored weapon. The sword is not a Martial Arts weapon in itself, but these charms can be used to augment it's function as though it were such a one.


I'll try and look up references for these beliefs in a bit. My books are still in my car.

The way I look at it is that as soon as you begin LEARNING a Supernatural Martial Arts Style that treats given non-martial arts weapons as martial arts weapons, that weapon BECOMES -- in a permanent fashion -- a martial arts weapon for you.  


So I would say once a Sidereal has started learning Violet Bier of Sorrows Style, he can use a Daiklaive with a basic, non-Charm enhanced Dexterity + Martial Arts roll.  It seems to me to be the only reasonable way to handle it, since it seems odd that you can use Dexterity + Melee to wield a Daiklaive ONLY if you happen to be using a Charm, but not with a more simple unenhanced roll.

 

[Relic]

The way I look at it is that as soon as you begin LEARNING a Supernatural Martial Arts Style that treats given non-martial arts weapons as martial arts weapons, that weapon BECOMES -- in a permanent fashion -- a martial arts weapon for you.  

Agreed with one note: if you are wielding a martial arts weapon you are assumed to be using the style connected with that weapon. In particular, if you wish to use martial arts charms with that weapon, those charms must be from the style in which you were taught to use this weapon.

So I would say once a Sidereal has started learning Violet Bier of Sorrows Style, he can use a Daiklaive with a basic, non-Charm enhanced Dexterity + Martial Arts roll.

Yes, and people in the know would recognize his martial arts style accordingly.

It seems to me to be the only reasonable way to handle it, since it seems odd that you can use Dexterity + Melee to wield a Daiklaive ONLY if you happen to be using a Charm, but not with a more simple unenhanced roll.

The reason you can use a Daiklaive with melee is that you commited essence to it. You can't use your Daiklaive with brawl which would be the correct comparison to make if I understand you correctly.

 

[greasy golem gunk]

As I understand it, Tiger/Razor Claws only become Martial Arts weapons when a character is using Tiger Form charms. Otherwise, they are treated like regular brawling aids.
This is like one of the Sidereal forms that uses a sword as it's favored weapon. The sword is not a Martial Arts weapon in itself, but these charms can be used to augment it's function as though it were such a one.


I'll try and look up references for these beliefs in a bit. My books are still in my car.

The way I look at it is that as soon as you begin LEARNING a Supernatural Martial Arts Style that treats given non-martial arts weapons as martial arts weapons, that weapon BECOMES -- in a permanent fashion -- a martial arts weapon for you.  


So I would say once a Sidereal has started learning Violet Bier of Sorrows Style, he can use a Daiklaive with a basic, non-Charm enhanced Dexterity + Martial Arts roll.  It seems to me to be the only reasonable way to handle it, since it seems odd that you can use Dexterity + Melee to wield a Daiklaive ONLY if you happen to be using a Charm, but not with a more simple unenhanced roll.

If you mean that learning a Daiklaive friendly martial art means you can make martial arts rolls on daiklaive use, then yeah you're right.  If you mean that you now HAVE to use martial arts with daiklaives because you've restructured your essence flows, you're thinking too hard.  


Now, do you have to learn the charms in the (in this example, we'll use Endings style) style, or can I simply begin with weapons practice under an Endings master?  Shouldn't practicing the mundane part enable martial arts daikliaves?


Whats a balanced way to handle this?  Require the 1st charm from each style you want to use the martial arts in, have a specialty, or simply agree with your ST on how many martial arts you've sampled?  How's about (my martial arts rating) in styles I could have studied?  


-g3's back.  And front too!

 

[Lurker in Darkness]

If you mean that learning a Daiklaive friendly martial art means you can make martial arts rolls on daiklaive use, then yeah you're right.  If you mean that you now HAVE to use martial arts with daiklaives because you've restructured your essence flows, you're thinking too hard.  
Now, do you have to learn the charms in the (in this example, we'll use Endings style) style, or can I simply begin with weapons practice under an Endings master?  Shouldn't practicing the mundane part enable martial arts daikliaves?


Whats a balanced way to handle this?  Require the 1st charm from each style you want to use the martial arts in, have a specialty, or simply agree with your ST on how many martial arts you've sampled?  How's about (my martial arts rating) in styles I could have studied?  


-g3's back.  And front too!

I would require the player to spend some XP, about 3 to 5 points. Those would represent the time needed to get familiar with another style. After he´s spent these points, he´s allowed to use this style fully (weapons, philosphy, etc.) and may also buy it´s charms.


I would say a high rating in MA means you have knowlege of many styles, not deep enough knowlege to actually fight using it, but enough to recognize it iif you see it in use.

 

[greasy golem gunk]

I would require the player to spend some XP, about 3 to 5 points. Those would represent the time needed to get familiar with another style. After he´s spent these points, he´s allowed to use this style fully (weapons, philosphy, etc.) and may also buy it´s charms.


I would say a high rating in MA means you have knowlege of many styles, not deep enough knowlege to actually fight using it, but enough to recognize it iif you see it in use.

sounds decent.  I'll use that if it comes up; with new players I'll expect that they stick to melee.


-g3

 

[psychoph]

One of my players was wondering if there are unarmed combat aids for lunars?

 

[Flagg]

One of my players was wondering if there are unarmed combat aids for lunars?

No specific Lunar-only stuff that I'm aware of, but the standard cesti, sai, etc., will work for anyone.


-S

 

[Persell]

One of my players was wondering if there are unarmed combat aids for lunars?

No specific Lunar-only stuff that I'm aware of, but the standard cesti, sai, etc., will work for anyone.


-S

Except that Lunar unarmed Charms only work whilst barefisted, or using Lunar magic (DBT Claws, Scimitar Claw Technique etc) to enhance unarmed attacks.

 

[Flagg]

[Except that Lunar unarmed Charms only work whilst barefisted, or using Lunar magic (DBT Claws, Scimitar Claw Technique etc) to enhance unarmed attacks.

Really? That's stupid.


-S

 

[Joseph]

[Except that Lunar unarmed Charms only work whilst barefisted, or using Lunar magic (DBT Claws, Scimitar Claw Technique etc) to enhance unarmed attacks.

Really? That's stupid.


-S

It actually makes more sense to determine whether you can use a Charm based on if a weapon is involved or not than if you are artifically rolling, say, Melee vs Martial Arts I think.

 

[Flagg]

What's stupid is that Lunars have this restriction where all other Exalts do not.


-S

 

[Joseph]

What's stupid is that Lunars have this restriction where all other Exalts do not.
-S

I actually see it as a benefit, not a restriction.


If I buy Sensing the Deadly Flow, I now have a dice adder that can benefit ANY attack armed attack roll that isn't actually at range.  Melee, Martial Arts, Brawl, AND Thrown (yes, you can make melee attacks with Thrown as long as you're using a throwing weapon; fucked up but true) can all benefit from this.  If I add to that Tyrant Lizard Strike (I think that is the unarmed dice adder), I can, between those two dice adders, emulate four theoretical Solar dice adders (since Melee, Brawl, and Martial Arts, and Thrown would each need their own).