The identities of the Deathlords..

[Zaramis]

Supergrunt- don't read this.


Okay, now with that warning issued, I had an idea today when I saw looking through the pages about the Deathlords. This might have been stated before, but.. have White Wolf tied /all/ the canon solars to Deathlords?


It's pretty obvious that Arianna and The Lover are the same person, from various comics, the way Arianna has been painted as a seductress, and given Arianna's description in Dreams of the First Age.


Thus, I give you:


Desus/Swan - The Silver Prince, most likely. Their way of social attacks, manipulation, strange love affairs and grand heroic gestures seems to fit pretty well, as well as looks and hints + Desus would be arrogant enough to refuse death.


Dace/Warriordude - First and Forsaken Lion. It says that FaFL was a great warrior, perhaps the greatest, and that's certainly Dace's first age story as well. Might very well want to conquer and do grand deeds even after death.


Harmonious Jade/Gold Feathered Arrow - Princess Magnificent, First age incarnation was naive but very agile and incredibly skilled, but easily fooled. Princess Magnificent uses lots of night-caste like abilities, uses feathers and stuff and seems to be the Night caste among the Deathlords.


Heirophant/Panther - The Bishop of the Chalcedony Thurible- The same kind of craziness, the same kind of staff, absolute belief in their own theology and it's power to rule the world. Easily arrogant and crazy enough to want to become a Deathlord rather than die to the Dragonblooded and Siddies.


It would be just like White Wolf to use these characters as yet another connection, they made them all batshit crazy and superpowerful as Solar Exalted in Dreams of the First Age and that's certainly what the Deathlords are meant to be..

 

[Persell]

Canonly we only know the true identities of Mask of Winters and Walker in Darkness for certain, but there are hints about some of the others.


There's been numerous discussions about the Desus/Silver Prince possiblity. If I remember correctly its not been directly confirmed, but was noted as a 'bad idea' by one of the writers, but I don't remember who (maybe Micheal Goodwin, but I'm not sure.) I think basically one writer liked the connection between them and made it more definite, but never out right confirms it, with out any real input from the developer/other writers.


I think its all but been stated outright that Bright Shattered Ice is the Lover, or at least is one of the various incarnations of Arriana's exaltation.


Contentious Sword (Dace's first Age incarnation) is emphatically NOT a Deathlord, as in CoCD: Underworld you can see him leading a ghostly army in the Specter War.


Gold Feathered Arrow was a guy, so he specifically isn't Princess Magnificent, but that doesn't stop you from deciding in your game a different incarnation went on the be the Princess.


The Heirophant/Bishop of Chalcedony Thurible I have no idea about, but it does seem possible.


Personally, I don't really want WW to tie any more of the canon Deathlords to the signature characters, because its more interesting to have a PC be the current holder of a DL's former exaltation.

 

[Zaramis]

I was more thinking Contentious Sword's first incarnation. It mentions in his text that he suspects that the first ( the real super-warrior ) incarnation's ghost might still be wandering the Underworld and that Contentious Sword is looking for him there, that he might find and talk to the ancient warrior and find out some things. So, it would be that ghost that finally accepts the neverborn thing.


And yeah, in my campaign none of these are connected like this, but I thought it was fun debating it.


Good point about Arrow tho, I had simply assumed they could swap genders and such but they might not have done so.

 

[Persell]

I think its been stated pretty solidly that all the Deathlords are Usurption era Solars, so Contentious Sword's original incarnation would have long since been a ghost, thus missing out on the Neverborn's recruitment drive. But as always, if it makes your story more interesting....

 

[cyl]

IIRC Abyssals 1e, the original 10 first Deathlords were all ghosts from exalts whose essences had been caught in the Jade Prison, and later 3 other (counting Larqen/Mask and Meherin/Walker) joined the gang.


In 2e canon (MoEP:A) the solar who was to become the Lion died during the Usurpation being one of the eldest and most powerful being of his time , so he could not have been related to Contentious Sword.

 

[Flagg]

The Bishop was the Solar who built the road to Whitewall, whomever that was.

 

[Malekith]

I dont know where I heard it, but there is one theory that the Lover is NOT Arianna, but was a contemporary unnamed Solar.


When the lover discovered Ariana being the reincarnation of BSI, she decided to capture her for possible knowledge of IAM. IAM being a possibly great tool against creation.

I think its all but been stated outright that Bright Shattered Ice is the Lover, or at least is one of the various incarnations of Arriana's exaltation.

 

[Flamane]

The way I see it, none of the canon ancient Solars turned into Deathlords. All those Solars had exaltations as old as the Primordial War, except the Hierophant (who, even though, was THE Hierophant) and Contentious Sword. It simplifies the canon characters and still make them important enough to mention. So, saying the DL were prior exaltation of those same Solars doesn't seem feasible, specially because I agree with Captain Indigo in thinkink all the early DL's were killed in the Usurpation.


I agree that Bright Shattered Ice and the Lover could be the same, but I don't use that. In my game, the Lover was a discreet and ignored Solar, who maintained it's low profile while being a devious genious and writing the Lover Clad in Blue book. Of course, the writer could be BSI, but I don't use it.


The Silver Prince, in my game, is also not Desus. It's Grand Admiral Arkadi, the prior exaltation of a player. It's working great as a plot device.


The theory of Gold feathered Arrow and Contentious Sword I disagree. The Arrow was a man. Gay, but still a man. Contentious Sword fought in the Spectre War. There's a comic in the Underworld book, and an illustration of both fighting together against the spectres. I know some people don't take that as canon, and they shouldn't, but I like the ideas they bring.


The only DL whose identity is certain is the Mak, as Larqen Quen. The Walker in Darkness is also a Solar who died in the Invisible Fortress, and I use Meherrin (although I never found anything saying it's him, he's the one I think fits best).


Still, I'm a strong defender of "do whatever you please, as long as you share the results with us". So go ahead and tell us how it works.