the dark empress

tjcoonrod

tjcoonrod

Junior Member
Ok, so assuming you go with the Empress + Ebon Dragon - Her Funeral = disaster for Creation route in canon:


Assuming the Dark Empress returns:


1) Is she akuma, or will the ebon dragon gift her with the powers of infernal exaltation - if that is possible (can he invest her with a solar shard, when she is already exalted, or is she just akuma'd)?


2) IF she is akuma'd, then she is broken down and brought back up in their image. Will she still resemble the Scarlet Empress?


3) How does the realm react to her return? Theoretically, she doesn't return until after the isle 'holds her funeral' - so, will they be surprised (well thats obvious). More to the point: how does the Realm react? Mnemon will deny her, imho, as she 'seems' to know quite a bit about what is going on with her mother (several veiled 1st edition references) - I could see Mnemon, denying her as Anathema, and perhaps even wanting to kill her, not only for the Anathema she has become, but to silence any attempts at returning to power on the Isle, (and hence, protecting her own attempt at siezing said power). What about others? Peleps Deled? Tepet Ejava? Other great houses? Mouth of the Peace? The Sidereals and Kejak?


I have my own intricate thoughts and campaign plans on this, but I wanted to get a few other opinions, because if it's really good or better than I think I currently have, I will probably steal it. Thanks!
 
Really, it depends on how the ST goes about it and what is best for the campaign. Whether they want the Empress to return, seemingly no different and set up a long term plan to free the Yozis, or to return at the head of a Malfean army, or whatever suits the game itself. Responses are going to vary quite a lot depending on the method of return.
 
tjcoonrod said:
1) Is she akuma, or will the ebon dragon gift her with the powers of infernal exaltation - if that is possible (can he invest her with a solar shard, when she is already exalted, or is she just akuma'd)?
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He could be riding her.  


Alternatively, the ED could be using a demonic form of Ride or Possess, a la Filial Wisdom from the Ruins of Rathess book. The Empress isn't exactly your average Dragon-Blood anyway. By rights, she should have been dead centuries ago, or at the very least look older or even elderly. There may be something in those facts that would help explain it also.
 
Note that Dukantha, a younger DB Akuma, has access to Solar Circle Sorcery through his service to Kimberry. The Scarlet Empress already had access to Celestial Circle Sorcery without being promoted through the Mantle of Brigid.


On the comemntary that she might already have kept from ageing through service to the Yozis, that seems unlikely in light of the comentary in the 1E DB book, it doesn't sound like speach between a longtime master and servant, or those who have been making deals all along. Further, there is at least one canonical Hearthstone and one canonical Artifact that can prevent aging completely. In 1E there was a Celestial Circle spell that could do the same, and it was noted that some Anathema brought in by the Wyld Hunt were brought to her instead of killed outright, and never seen again. Since the spell worked by stealing the years of whom it was cast upon, one explanation for such was that she kept her youth through taking it from these captured Anathema. Though it is possible that some or all such were instead sacrificed to the Sword of Creation's guardians.
 
One thought I had was that might explain how she got access to the manse to start with, how she stays so young, and now, its time to pay up on her side of the bargan by going to offer up some nookie to the Ebon Dragon and help to return the Malfians to Creation.
 
Rhapsody said:
He could be riding her.
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Interesting thought, although could be taken a bit out of context from some of the more pervy members of the ECR  :twisted:

Rhapsody said:
Alternatively, the ED could be using a demonic form of Ride or Possess, a la Filial Wisdom from the Ruins of Rathess book. The Empress isn't exactly your average Dragon-Blood anyway. By rights, she should have been dead centuries ago, or at the very least look older or even elderly. There may be something in those facts that would help explain it also.
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Interesting thought.

Note that Dukantha' date=' a younger DB Akuma, has access to Solar Circle Sorcery through his service to Kimberry. The Scarlet Empress already had access to Celestial Circle Sorcery without being promoted through the Mantle of Brigid.[/quote']
I suppose it really is irreleveant as to whether the Empress has the mantle of brigid, beings as Dukantha goes from terrestrial -> solar circles of sorcery. Also, that brings up that rather interesting sorcery=yozi idea I saw somewhere, I believe on the wiki - or perhaps it was a thread on one of the forums I visit? Interesting idea that was.

On the comemntary that she might already have kept from ageing through service to the Yozis' date=' that seems unlikely in light of the comentary in the 1E DB book, it doesn't sound like speach between a longtime master and servant, or those who have been making deals all along. Further, there is at least one canonical Hearthstone and one canonical Artifact that can prevent aging completely. In 1E there was a Celestial Circle spell that could do the same, and it was noted that some Anathema brought in by the Wyld Hunt were brought to her instead of killed outright, and never seen again. Since the spell worked by stealing the years of whom it was cast upon, one explanation for such was that she kept her youth through taking it from these captured Anathema. Though it is possible that some or all such were instead sacrificed to the Sword of Creation's guardians.[/quote']
I would tend to agree with LK on this issue. The thought of sapping the life force of anathema is interesting - although I suppose it would depend upon your take of the guardians of the Sword of Creation. Would they allow you to sacrifice the withered husk of an Anathema (meaning they just need a 'life' sacrificed) or do they want raw life force (weakening the sacrifice if you suck that out yourself). I hope these comments are taken out of context by the more pervy members of the ECR, lol.

Haku said:
If she comes back... she'll likely be the Bondage Queen. ^_^
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 :lol:
Sherwood said:
One thought I had was that might explain how she got access to the manse to start with, how she stays so young, and now, its time to pay up on her side of the bargan by going to offer up some nookie to the Ebon Dragon and help to return the Malfians to Creation.
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Interesting take on it. She became an infernal exalt *before* saving Creation. Wow. That could even be part of a longer term plot - she set up the bureaucracy of the realm, to be self defeating and relying upon her, so that when she finally 'vanishes' - the realm will be in no position to stop her when she returns to enact the final phases of the Yozis plans for retaking Creation. Hmmm......
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tjcoonrod said:
I suppose it really is irreleveant as to whether the Empress has the mantle of brigid, beings as Dukantha goes from terrestrial -> solar circles of sorcery. Also, that brings up that rather interesting sorcery=yozi idea I saw somewhere, I believe on the wiki - or perhaps it was a thread on one of the forums I visit? Interesting idea that was.
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*chuckles* That's actually hinted at in the books themselves. One of the five 'beings' that taught Brigid sorcery (the Eastern one) matches the second circle demon Mara to a rather alarming degree, after all.... ;)
 
Argued, because some people refuse to recognize what are very obvious and deliberate hints.
 
Right here's one of the major debates on the topic of Sorcery being a plot of the demons...fun stuff. I'm personally of the opinion that it's an its a good plot of corruption by the Primordials/Demons/Yozis/whatever. It leads to more fun story hooks as the players can then try to figure out how to either abolish it or purify it, depending on their opinion of the stuff in general. *chuckles*
 
As a note, in the Sidereal book, it's actually stated that it was the Sidereals that rummaged through the notes in Yu-Shan and gave access to the Imperial Manse to the Empress.
 
Zaramis said:
As a note, in the Sidereal book, it's actually stated that it was the Sidereals that rummaged through the notes in Yu-Shan and gave access to the Imperial Manse to the Empress.
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Page ref?
 
Dracogryff said:
Right here's one of the major debates on the topic of Sorcery being a plot of the demons...fun stuff. I'm personally of the opinion that it's an its a good plot of corruption by the Primordials/Demons/Yozis/whatever. It leads to more fun story hooks as the players can then try to figure out how to either abolish it or purify it, depending on their opinion of the stuff in general. *chuckles*
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I remember that thread. The horror. But I like the fact that's its from the old Keepers and not the new management. That along with Jukashi's ideas, which I fully agree with, on the escape of the Yozis instead of merely being defeated...it leads to interesting points of thought.
 
Flagg said:
Zaramis said:
As a note, in the Sidereal book, it's actually stated that it was the Sidereals that rummaged through the notes in Yu-Shan and gave access to the Imperial Manse to the Empress.
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Page ref?
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I wish I had my books on me right now, but I remember that is was Chejop that helped her get into the Imperial Manse in the first place and instructed her on how to operate the defense grid, which took the sacrifice of all of her, then, accompanying officers. The offers either died through the process of getting into the Manse and past the defense, or through use as fodder for the operation of the machine.
 
As I recall, the Empress braved the Sword of Creation without Sidereal assistance, and her brotherhood were not "used as fodder" so much as willing sacrifices to save the world from the ravages of the Fair Folk.  Chejop didn't meet her until after she'd already become the Empress: I recall reading the bit where he knelt in supplication for a full day at the stairs of one of her palaces in order to introduce himself to the Empress.  It pissed him off to no extent, humbling himself to what he basically considered a child.
 
If chejop could get into the imperial manse.. do you -really- think the Empress would've been in power?


Someone's been brainwashed by the bronze faction propoganda ^^
 
What I remember from the 2ed Sidereal book (and I don't have my books with me either unfortunately) was that during the darkest moments of the Fair Folk invasion when it appeared that all might be lost the Sidereals pulled together some Astrology mumbo jumbo and built a 'uber' destiny and then let it loose in the hopes that it would settle on someone causing/allowing them to save Creation.  The person that destiny settled on ultimately became the Scarlet Empress.  So, based on that recollection, the Sidereals were involved, but perhaps not as directly as handing her the access codes and an instruction manual so to speak.


I've also contended that this uber-destiny and its repercussions are one of the reasons the Scarlet Empress ultimately ended up embroiled in all sorts of weird stuff like sorcery beyond her exalt type, living so long, etc.  I envision it as kind of a 'may you live the most interesting live ever possible' which at the time of the invasion lead her to successfully gaining control of the Realm Defense Grid, but which has not completely stopped effecting her over the years.
 
Here's a crazy thought: what if the Destiny the Sidereals "oh so carefully" cooked up was too much for one person, even an Exalt, so it shunted the officer it landed on outside of Creation, maybe to Malfeas maybe not, and the Scarlet Empress was actually something that looked and talked like her, for most intents and purposes was her, but was really just playing out the Destiny. Now the Empress is nowhere because the Destiny ran out and the Terrestrial that was the original vehicle for the Destiny, having been warped by being thrust outside of Creation, is now the perfect key for the Yozis to get out of their prison and maybe even back to Creation.


Or maybe the Destiny took a shape the Sidereals didn't intend, like letting Malfeas or the Ebon Dragon or one of their souls have just enough contact with Creation to let the officer make a deal, which ultimately benefited the Yozis more than Creation.


I understood though that the idea that the Ebon Dragon's fiancee was the Empress was refuted by the developers, right?
 
There is another theory that explains both the Empress' access to celestial sorcery and her extended lifespan: she's always been a sidereal.


There is nothing in canon that really supports this idea, but I think it's kind of fun anyway.
 
If I'd go with "the empress is not a dragonblooded fiance of the ebon draong" I'd say she was a solar servant of the dragon all along. She was sent out to protect creation, because the dragon still wants to come back one day and just ruled in his state, carefully inflicting suffering on the world by conquering it and preventing the solars to come back so that her master has time to break free of the prison. She collects a few of them for her dark lord to corrupt over time while using the sidereals and her new empire to have an iron grip on creation.


Then she messes up, she was supposed to guide the deathlords to recover all solar shards, but she set them free by accident and now is recalled to her lord to suffer punishment and be prepared to head back to creation at the head of an army of corrupted solars.
 
Or she could have totally fulfilled her mission,


- building a Empire so corrupt, it will be easy to come back and dominate it once,


-releasing the other solar shards :


    1- to create further chaos therefore putting her in a position to take control of things easier.... after all SHE saved Creation once


    2- to divide the deathlords (abyssals means more power, more power for deathlords means conflict of interests)


    3- to ensure further Yozi domination (50 united infernals leading legions of demons would crush any force of Creation)


Once her mission completed, she goes back to her master, and prepare for the final assault.


THAT would be dark...


As for the celestial sorcery... didn't she use to wear Brigid's Mantle ?
 
People believed she had it, but that, was never confirmed. Neither was that the mantle has any powers.
 
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