The 5th Age

Catatonik

New Member
is an Age in construction, and Age yet to come, it is being built story by story, game session by session...sort of.


I already have a really good grasp on the loose fundamentals of the setting I am working on, but the actions of the PCs in all the various Exalted games I have been running for the past 8 years are woven into the metaplot and backstory.


But, I was hoping to spark some conversation and brainstorming with fellow gamers not in my group. And given that none of my players ever pop into these kinds of forums I should be okay to bounce ideas offa y'all. Sooo:


Fragment notes and concepts for the 5th Age of Exalted game setting, including, potential rules adjustments and setting changes.


Non-categorized, and mostly off the top of my head, or consisting of notations from games/brain-storming sessions:


Apotheosis: Infernals have the potential to achieve a Neo-Primordial existence, which includes Fetich souls, world-bodies (if so chosen, or alternatively simply massive unimaginably so bodies), and a number of other things, including becoming a world God, as with Malfeas and Autochthonia, and existing within the Wyld or Elsewhere (see Notes on Azanerus), most certainly NOT ensnared within Malfeas' Yozi prison..


This means new worlds to be detailed/explored, with my prediction being no more than about 5 at this time, (precluding Azanerus the Hallway of Doors, and the Opened up Yozi Realms), with one being that of Mycenis, the Hand that Twisted the Loom, an Infernal whose time in Yu-Shan and Autochthonia left both worlds Gods shaken and terrified. The depths of his world body, are a collection of cities and empires and environments stolen from other worlds (or created) and broken intro floating islands in a world of seemingly endless depths of sky over a burning and bubbling world of steam smoke and lava, sulfur and minerals, but little edible resources. Various peoples and nations from Autochthon, Creation and Malfeas past has been replicated and woven into Mycenis' soulsteel and adamant Hyper-weave World-Core. The various nations and islands use airships and steam-tech to travel, trade and war, and though no Celestial Exaltations occur within Mycenis, both Alchemicals (in small quantities, operating using very fragile Essence Connectors to touch Autochthon) and Dragon-Bloods occur in relatively frequency (plus Exalted visitors). Many of Mycenis' native inhabitants are replicas of creatures from Creation and Malfeas, and even Autochthon (especially in the lower levels where the Machine-spirits craft and maintain elaborate mechanisms that feed Mycenis' World-Core).


The Opened up Demon Realms were a result of the Agreement at the end of the 4th Age, by a number of Solars, Infernals, Alchemicals, Sidereals, Autobot and the Incarna to Release the Extreme bindings inflicted by the First Age conquerers. Allowing Cecylene and Malfeas to stretch further and reducing the pressure on all the Yozis, so far as to give Adorjan entire stretches where her silence is unbreakable, never again to be sullied by noise, such that Kimberry now splashes gleefully against Malfeas relaxed shores and Sorczenys broad ranges sloaps. Ligier now regularily keeps a schedule of sleep to honour the memory of the Ebon Dragon who betrayed them, and by staying true to his nature still managed to ease their pain through the magnitude of his death. Within Malfeas, where Autobot and Malfy were fused and forever connected, there should exist an Autochthonian City-fortress, a combination Weaver-Reasearch Facility, Intelligence and Diplomatic Facility. The death of the Ebon Dragon forced the other Primordials to do an emergency and hasty patch job, slapping the Fiend Exaltations onto Kimberry, forcing the death of all the fFends at the time (minus one whose change is...significant).


The idea of a number of Alchemicals and Solar devising a way to allow many Alchemical to fuse into floating world Ships within Elsewhere is pretty nifty, but not essential to the story, probably a side-bar idea thingy.


The alliance that released the tension on Malfeas would have likely resulted in a clearing of the Great Curse, through Auto's work. Not necessarily though, just a thought.


Solars and Abyssals will also be reaching the highest levels of their powers (a few of them anyways) with Solars expanding and altering Creation, along side many Lunars and Alchemicals, creating new nations, environments and cultures, battling the Fae and what have you. As well as scheming to explore Elswhere, the Hallway of Doors, the reaches of Malfeas, the Underworld (and/or close the damn blights) Autochthon and what ever else happens to be impressive enough to warrant their attention. Abyssals will have a number reaching the point where they exceed their pathetic Deathlord 'Lieges' and even the impotent Neverborn, some few reaching an Apotheosis similar to the Infernals, but instead becoming Avatars of the perfection of Death, both Lethe and Oblivion, their Shards changing and passing on to create the seemingly unattached Lethean Exalted, Chosen of Death, guardians of the cycle of Lethe and Oblivion, life and death. This change will scare the shit out of a number of entities, including Lytek, Autobot, the Neverborn and the various Gods of Death, but NOT the newest Neverborn, the Dragon of Peaceful Slumber and Acceptance, whose few Deathknights aspire to reach Lethean Apotheosis and hopefully free their sublime Neverborn liege. New lethean will need a full write-up and a Charm set that covers a blend of Sidereals and Abyssals, with Infernal elements while thematically covering the rightness of Death, the inevitability of Death, the beauty of Lethe and the terror of Oblivion.


Lunars have it the strangest, though once again returned to 5 Castes, their various mates have taken on so many different guises that Lunars hearts are cast across any number of purposes. Many can be found at the edges of Creation, battling against the horrors that would rip creation back into madness, or exploring the various new worlds intrepidly. Some few though, are closely involved in a multitude of Social Experiments (including one in Autochthonia near the Pole of Lightning), or cleansing Blights and Shadowlands. It is widely suspected that Lunar activity helped bring about a number of the biggest alliances and treaties that ended the 4th Age (especially the events surrounding the fusion of Autochthonia and Malfeas), and are almost always to be found near any gathering of Solar-based Shards (Solars, Lunars, Abyssals or Lethean), adding their own brand of chaos to the mix.


Alchemicals have spread far and wide, as Autochthons reconnection to the Wyld vastly increased the resources available within his World-Body, and thusly to the inhabitants within, who were desperately at war with the forces of the First and Forsaken Lion and the Gremlin threat. When those passed Autochthon was safer, but the connection to Malfeas hadcaused a number of changes, one of which was Machine Demons setting up shop in areas that seem to become desolate regions covered in rust and dust and leading into Cecylene, and the various new strange additions to the depths, including the Brass and Saphire Rose vines, a plant that feeds on oil and rust, and spreads through Autobot actually helping close some blights and purify some lines. It also inadvertently increases the rodent population and eventually the infusion of a few smaller predator species designed to keep down the rats (and who are in turn kept down by the Tunnel-folk). Alchemicals from cities across Creation and other realities serve their nations as heroes and Champions, at home and abroad, and where they go, other Exalted achieve greater things when they work with them.


Nobody has had it rougher than the Sidereals. The 2nd Age ended the illusion of their titles as The Hands of Fate. No, by the end of the 3rd Age, the Maidens were forced to add an additional 50 Essences and redesign their Exalted purposes to account for a world where multiple Looms are co-reacting. Thus, the Sidereals have been subtly redesigned to accommodate their new rolls as Ambassadors of Fate, and On-the-Fly Fate Repairmen (think the Monks of Time from Pratchett sans Time-travel, meet the Men in Black). As part of the agreement between Autobot, the Solars and Malfeas, the Sidereals now have the power to deal with the Astrology of the other Realms (including the Underworld at a cost) and now act as ambassadors through out the Realms, watching and judging all Exalts and Gods with the Mandate of Heavens Eye behind them.


Dragon-Bloods. Few Exalts have lost so much, or grown so much. The Return of the Scarlet Empress destroyed their last grasp on power, the Age of the Demon Empress scattered them across Creation and destroyed all their nations (but one, see the New Continent) and the 4th Age, was the Age when they began to rise back to power again, the Bloodline of the Dragons now fully seeded across Creation, Autochthonia and Mycenis. The worlds have grown, so much more is open and available, and the dragon-Blooded are there. Where the limited few Celestials (Alchemicals an exception) are spread out across the worlds, the Dragon-Blooded are saturated across the various Realities, occupying most important positions where no greater power is their to lead them. There are over 400 well-known and respected schools for Dragon-Bloods across those realities, and many, many more lesser schools that teach simple Charms, terrestrial MA's and what have you.


The New Continent, the last bastion of Dragon-Blood rule. The largest nation being NovaLookshy, the largest city in creation, a fusion of Dragon-Blooded (Lookshyan predominantly), Autochthonian and Dragon-King aesthetics, with representatives of all three kinds living in this advanced, bustling, hyper-modernized city. Veg-tech, magitech, Sorcery, and Alchemical Weaving combine to turn the huge nation into a massive towering city that draws resources from all other cities and nations across the continent. The value of the NovaLookshyan economy to the various nations of Autochthonia and a few in Mycenis is so significant that representatives from all of those nations can be found in the Capital city at all times, and all nations from the various worlds pay attention to what happens in NovaLookshy. A fiercely democratic society with a number of socialist aspects, the Novans culture is very liberal, out-spoken and demonstrative, with the many colleges and schools across it hot-spots for cultural revolution.
 
This is too optimistic for my tastes! I cannot tolerate it!


How did the Ebon Dragon die? Infernals mentions that as long as one Infernal still exists knowing any of a Yozi's charms, that Yozi can fully reconstitute from fetich death with no loss of power. Also, having all existing Fiend Infernals die because the Ebon Dragon dies fills my gut with an abiding rage. No one should have an instant, unstoppable killswitch on an Exalt - and that counts.


"Relaxing the bonds on the Yozi's prison" is another something I strongly disagree with! Someone once mentioned a fake Exalted happy ending where the great curse is ended, the Neverborn peacefully dropped into Lethe, and the Yozi imprisoned in a prison made of sunshine and rainbows. I laughed because such an idea horrified me! "More space" does not do it for me when dealing with cosmic and infinite beings imprisoned in a cosmic and infinite demiplane! The very nature of their defeat and captivity is what maddens them; being limited /at all/ is incomprehensible. Malfeas is not a person, you cannot convince him that maybe it's all right not to be the king of everything! Because if he stopped believing he was the king of everything, even for a second, he would cease to exist! And so he has to endure the terrible paradox of being the king of everything and everything rejecting him, which drives him insane! Adorjan has areas where she can have perfect silence, but she already has that because Cecelyne is infinite! Cecelyne is infinite except one of her end points is tied to Malfeas - and that's what drives her insane, having one limit on her infinity - and that pesky rule that she has to limit her infinity to five days when uppity mortals cross her!


Of course, if this is all established already in your game not much I can do about it. I just have Ideology when it comes to the Primordials.
 
I second much of Thanqol's rage. Exalted is not sunshine and rainbows. Exalted is sunshine on a bloodied battle field, victory bought at the price of lives. No compromise is made with enemies in Exalted. It is victory or death.
 
Kyeudo said:
I second much of Thanqol's rage. Exalted is not sunshine and rainbows. Exalted is sunshine on a bloodied battle field, victory bought at the price of lives. No compromise is made with enemies in Exalted. It is victory or death.
Depending on your faction, victory and death can be the same thing!
 
On a more specific note:


If all this stuff is the result of /direct/ PC action, then I suppose it would be cheating them to remove it. If it is stuff that NPCs are doing in the background then I would argue hugely and against any of it. Nothing should get better except due to direct player character intervention.


If one of your PCs doesn't have 'fix the Lunar castes' as his Motivation then it shouldn't happen. If any of these ascending Infernals isn't someone directly connected to your PCs, or predetermined as a future major character, they shouldn't be there.


And I would very seriously consider closing this game, saying "You Win", and starting again. The moment you lift the Great Curse Exalted is over (in my mind at least). The world is fixed, which makes it boring. Really, this world sounds dangerously close to entirely fixed anyway. The Incarnae are active. They even made more Sidereals! The oppressive Sidereal factions are overthrown, the Ebon Dragon is lethe'ing the Neverborn, Malfeas is a prison of sunshine and rainbows, Autochthon is deadALIVE AND FIXING EVERYTHING and the Alchemicals are rehabilitated, the Lunars have their castes fixed and have peacefully forgotten their own attempt at society to join up with the newly saned Solars, the Realm is shattered except Lookshy...


That's the checklist of virtually every problem in Exalted.


What is there left to do?
 
Thanqol said:
On a more specific note:
If all this stuff is the result of /direct/ PC action, then I suppose it would be cheating them to remove it. If it is stuff that NPCs are doing in the background then I would argue hugely and against any of it. Nothing should get better except due to direct player character intervention.


If one of your PCs doesn't have 'fix the Lunar castes' as his Motivation then it shouldn't happen. If any of these ascending Infernals isn't someone directly connected to your PCs, or predetermined as a future major character, they shouldn't be there.


And I would very seriously consider closing this game, saying "You Win", and starting again. The moment you lift the Great Curse Exalted is over (in my mind at least). The world is fixed, which makes it boring. Really, this world sounds dangerously close to entirely fixed anyway. The Incarnae are active. They even made more Sidereals! The oppressive Sidereal factions are overthrown, the Ebon Dragon is lethe'ing the Neverborn, Malfeas is a prison of sunshine and rainbows, Autochthon is dead and the Alchemicals are rehabilitated, the Lunars have their castes fixed and have peacefully forgotten their own attempt at society to join up with the newly saned Solars, the Realm is shattered except Lookshy...


That's the checklist of virtually every problem in Exalted.


What is there left to do?
As a matter of fact, yeah, these are all major moments involved in my games. Flat-out.


I like the rage response, it cracks me up. :)


The points are all made. As to the Great Curse and what have you, as I said, undetermined, it has it's merits and flaws in my opinion, none of which I am particularily keen on arguing, as the issue is currently not even being dealt with in my games yet, not until I run the full Solar game...maybe. It's not something I am all that focussed on at the moment.


So, a world of cold-war and unknown limits (and horrors) are optimistic? I can see it I guess, not that I necessarily agree.


It is certainly no less pleasant than the First Age at it's finest, and is significantly less stable.


Though I am more than willing to concede a number of points that have been bothering me, especially considering the killswitch and the fall of the Ebon Dragon, though both are still a bit off yet, as the Infernal game is just getting started...that said, I can add that the switch is supposed to take place before the Ebon Dragon dies as a result of a number of important moves by various PC's, which I should have specified. Though I had thought it was at least implied.


Also the no compromise is made with enemies is b.s., the very existence of the mutliple diplomatic Exalts calls that a lie. I am more than happy to agree that rainbows and what have you is out, but epic alliances, cold wars, treachery, politics and national maneuvering are all very Exalted.


With that said, I am still writing this out, adjusting it, and have more depth to it, but I appreciate the early rant.


Seriously, though, it is not won.


There is a vast series of new worlds to war with, conquer ally, defend from, nations to alter, Gods and Demons and the Underworlds monstrous creatures (I am definitely still on the fence about the Lethean Exalted, but that's only because there's so much back story to it...)Malfeas relaxed is...not my best piece of writing, and that's also a result of writing everything down that comes to mind. I take your point.


What else can I say in my own rather amused defense at the moment.


Umm, I pictured it more like a world where so many forces are struggling for power that a stalemate appears to have settled in place, and many of the worlds citizens bleieve (falsely) that it is a world of peace and advancement. Multiple nations possess heavy magitech and exalted backing, war is always just around the corner, or just under the surface in the so-called civillized realms...


Thanks again.
 
It is almost stupidly easy to get me to rage. If someone mentions something offhand about Malfeas being dumb in a thread about Exalted breadboards I will pounce it and rage it and derail the thread.


Even so, there are still a bunchton of things which are just too... resolved. An autochthonian city and embassy in Malfeas? Autochthon, the guy who made the Exalted who murdered Malfeas' family and locked him in constant agony forever? And Malfeas, the King of Everything who has to have a psychic fracture to even consider the prospect that someone else has an opinion that matters? Are we talking about the same Primordials? (Liger adopting a night cycle out of respect for EB is cool though).


The Incarnae somehow pulling themselves away from the Games of Divinity to take active hands in guiding their Exalted and making new ones? That's almost game over right there.


What I would do, however, is set up from the beginning that this is going to be a game about history repeating itself. Everyone's getting optimistic about the Exalted again, thinking that all the world's problems are going to be solved, and then BAM great curse, paranoid divisions, we have always been at war with Eastasia. Play up the idea that these are the early days of the High First Age once again, and that in a few decades you are all going to be horrible monsters.


That said, all the Exalted specific problems are solved. Alchemicals have fixing Autochthon as their major quest. Solved. Lunars have carving a place out for themselves, possibly taking their own turn at ruling the world with Solars as their pets rather than vice versa. Solved. Infernals have their ascention; done. Dragon Blooded have the Realm Civil War; done. Abyssals have to kill the world; they've missed the boat for the most part. Sidereals have the Burea; gone.


It's Solar Victory. Every other faction has had their goals and ideology kicked out from under them. The only threat is going to be Solars who are crazy, or outworld invasions which are boring because no one has an emotional investment in them. You kill those guys, not argue ideology with them.


So the philosophical quandries of Exalted are resolved. Solars win. Solars can keep playing on Solar terms, but no one else even exists as an independent entity. This is well past the point where I'd start a new game, your mileage may differ.
 
So the Solars won this round, so what? The other factions still exist, and there's nothing stopping them from ganging up and trying to pull off a second Usurpation, should they so desire. Seriously, what's wrong with the good guys winning one for a change?
 
Teln said:
So the Solars won this round, so what? The other factions still exist, and there's nothing stopping them from ganging up and trying to pull off a second Usurpation, should they so desire. Seriously, what's wrong with the good guys winning one for a change?
When did the Solars become the good guys?
 
Thanqol said:
Teln said:
So the Solars won this round, so what? The other factions still exist, and there's nothing stopping them from ganging up and trying to pull off a second Usurpation, should they so desire. Seriously, what's wrong with the good guys winning one for a change?
When did the Solars become the good guys?
^THIS. THIS. THIS.^


Solars were made in the image of The Unconquered Sun, who is objectively the mightiest god ever to exist. Solars are proportionally mighty.


At no point is a Solars ever good, simply by virtue of being a Solar. Sure, they're "Holy" but thats only because the guy running The System has chosen them.


It's nepotism, pure and simple.
 
Interestingly, the only criteria for Solar Exaltation that matters is that the Solar must have the will to use the shard's power. That's it. No morality. No holiness. Not even so much as a vague direction as to the course that use will take. Just that they will use it.
 
They are chosen from mortals destined to do great things. Great tyrants may rise, but an equal number of great heroes also arise to do battle, and because Exalted's world runs upon an ingrained narrative system, the great heroes will win out in the end. Thus, Solar Exaltations are self selecting towards being what is generally thought of as the "good" guys.


Well, at least as "good" as Hercules or Beowulf. Not everyone can be Solomon.
 
Kyeudo said:
They are chosen from mortals destined to do great things. Great tyrants may rise, but an equal number of great heroes also arise to do battle, and because Exalted's world runs upon an ingrained narrative system, the great heroes will win out in the end. Thus, Solar Exaltations are self selecting towards being what is generally thought of as the "good" guys.
Well, at least as "good" as Hercules or Beowulf. Not everyone can be Solomon.
Ingrained narrative system, really?


What if the narrative is a tragedy?
 
Thanqol said:
Ingrained narrative system, really?


What if the narrative is a tragedy?
Then the tragedy leads to a heroic triumph again. Stories don't end in Exalted, they just change focus and maybe cast members.
 
Kyeudo said:
Then the tragedy leads to a heroic triumph again. Stories don't end in Exalted, they just change focus and maybe cast members.
Stories don't end, but all the stories have been spiralling down for centuries. Every time the story repeats itself, it gets a little less. The Wyld laps up a bit more of the boundaries. The Underworld gets a little stronger.


Give it enough time, there'll be nothing left.


Also: It's Saturn's job to decide when the world ends. She could do it right now! Edit: Or as soon as the Sun agrees.
 
Thanqol said:
Kyeudo said:
Then the tragedy leads to a heroic triumph again. Stories don't end in Exalted, they just change focus and maybe cast members.
Stories don't end, but all the stories have been spiralling down for centuries. Every time the story repeats itself, it gets a little less. The Wyld laps up a bit more of the boundaries. The Underworld gets a little stronger.


Give it enough time, there'll be nothing left.
Eh, the world's just setting up the greatest comeback story in Creation.

Also: It's Saturn's job to decide when the world ends. She could do it right now! Edit: Or as soon as the Sun agrees.
I'd like to see her try. At the very minimum, every Sidereal in Creation would be knocking on her door, if not every Solar and Lunar both the Gold and Bronze faction can get their hands on.
 
To be fair, I have a lot more notes and thoughts on this, than one post indicates.


The basic premise is, that like the early stages of the First Age of Man, the 5th Age is an Age of growth....that doesn't mean it's over.


It's about the cyclical nature of the Exalted existence, how things rise, fall, rise again, are cast down, and so on.


Also, just because the Solars have repeated history, does not imply they won. The other Exalted while in some cases altered, are still there. The Infernals still want to release their masters (though the Ascended neo-Primordials could have completely different goals themselves), the Abyssals still want to end everything (only they feel a little put upon...it feels to them like they are losing...), but that doesn't mean they can't succeed, there are a lot more shadowlands in creation, and the violence of the 3rd and 4th Ages left a number of huge ones across creation (and inside Autobot) that seem particularly resistant to removal.


But as to whether the Solars are the good guys. They are the systems default Hero yes, but, really, just because he was heroic doesn't make Gilgamesh was the good guy, in fact, most of the Solars end up becoming the bad-guys...were my game to include the removal of the great Curse, it's result would likely still be limited. There are only half as many Solars as the first Age, and 100 Abyssals, plus 50 Infernals (whom one assumes sheds the Infernal shard upon Apotheosis...I believe that has been implied by the writing team) who share their potential power limits in many ways. That's a pretty important power check, as opposed to 300 Solars and no competing shards of their power level.


I always viewed that as meaning that Creation must undergo more Ages of growth and recession as the power's that-be struggle through epic stages. Infernals can become Primordials, Solars and Lunars have always been good at pushing back the Wyld, and unlike the fall of the Second Age, the world is no longer limited to mere DB's, hidden Sidereals and distant Lunars. Solars, in 3 different formats are back...that has to mean something in terms of the way Creation grows or falls. Yes, many of the things I threw out there are not thematically apropos, which is why I was looking for input, but I strongly believe that much of the premise is valid.


There isn't an "I Win" button anymore IMO.


:)


I think I am repeating myself, so I will drag my hazy self away from this and maybe come back to it a little more clear-headed later.
 

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