Character Theory You don't need a fully flawed character to have a compelling character

[ScatheAriiasqDrayceon]

Okay, okay, okay.

I'm really, really bored of reading a linear progression of "Asshole to angel with a 'tude". I'm not saying it's not fun to write, or that it's not a good trope... I just want some variety.

So allow me to propose a thing for all of you people who are looking for new character ideas.

~Good character slowly falling into a pit of depression and poor mental health due to stress~
​

I love this trope. Love, love, LOVE this trope! It's SO GOOD. Just taking someone the characters viewed as perfect and maybe a bit otherworldly and showing that they're just the same as everyone else and, often, under a lot of stress. Watching a roleplayer take this nigh-flawless character and break them is just... *Chef kiss*. Perfect angst. And that one moment when they decide that they're okay with not splitting themself 100 different ways to try and please everyone and double-checking everything because they thought they have to be perfect is... amazing.

So, anyway,

Thoughts?

 

[Chordling]

I think when people ask for characters to have flaws, what we really are asking for is to see that character change. The world around that character cannot be perfect for them. Seeing a character define as "perfect" break due to mental stress fits this philosophy, in my opinion.

 

[Idea]

Yep! I absolutely love making that sort of idea, the character that slowly breaks down, but unfortunately I tend to do it more in backstory than I do in actual roleplay. It's the kind of thing that takes a long time plot-wise and it's not something I could easily do with a common group or common partner. I'm the type that needs to get the juicy aspects maximized, so I would need a partner that's really ok with planning and structuring scenes, and unfortunately those are pretty rare.

That said, I'm not entirely sure how the post and the title are related?

 

[Onmyoji]

~Good character slowly falling into a pit of depression and poor mental health due to stress~

That sounds like real life, I don't like this trope!

Seriously though, a character going through any kind of change is potentially very interesting. Be it a good character getting depressed or a villain slowly realizing that their worldview was wrong.
And I love to play that kind of development in 1x1!

 

[ScatheAriiasqDrayceon]

That said, I'm not entirely sure how the post and the title are related?

...How are the content of the post and the title not related?
Sorry, lol, I'm still adjusting to RpN forum culture

 

[Idea]

...How are the content of the post and the title not related?
Sorry, lol, I'm still adjusting to RpN forum culture

I'm not sure what "fully flawed characters" has to do with that specific archetype.

Or maybe I'm just not getting what you mean by "fully flawed characters".

 

[Owlbear]

I don't see how what you're describing wouldn't be classified as a fully flawed character, tbh.

 

[ScatheAriiasqDrayceon]

I'm not sure what "fully flawed characters" has to do with that specific archetype.

Or maybe I'm just not getting what you mean by "fully flawed characters".

I tend to think of flawed characters as... like... commonly used flaws like "disloyal" or "abrasive". I consider flaws in the views of the other characters, not the user because...

Actually, Idk why I do that.

I don't know what to name it tho, lmao

Ngl, I spat this out in a fit of rambling in like 15 minutes

 

[Idea]

I tend to think of flawed characters as... like... commonly used flaws like "disloyal" or "abrasive". I consider flaws in the views of the other characters, not the user because...

Actually, Idk why I do that.

I don't know what to name it tho, lmao

Ngl, I spat this out in a fit of rambling in like 15 minutes

I see. I think we have a different notion of flaw then. To be honest, how other people perceive the character isn't really a trait of the character, if anything it's something in the people around the character, so I wouldn't call it a character flaw.

 

[ScatheAriiasqDrayceon]

I see. I think we have a different notion of flaw then. To be honest, how other people perceive the character isn't really a trait of the character, if anything it's something in the people around the character, so I wouldn't call it a character flaw.

Very fair.

It may have stemmed from my fear of making a "perfect" sounding character, so my immediate thought is something that'll cause friction between characters, but that's prolly just me

 

[Idea]

Very fair.

It may have stemmed from my fear of making a "perfect" sounding character, so my immediate thought is something that'll cause friction between characters, but that's prolly just me

I see. I don't think character friction is really the way to go about it though. Because you definitely can have a character that seems perfect, and causes friction, heck often that seeming perfection IS the very cause of the inter-character friction. Case in point, any number of overpowered characters with in superpower/gifted roleplays who seem to have any talent the narrative asks them to at any given time and whose personality shifts to meet what is convenient and/or the player's moral compass.

If I were to put my finger on the fundamental aspect of what makes a flaw, I would say "self-induced failure". There's more to what I would consider a good flaw, but I think that's the very baseline of what a flaw even is, something that causes the character to fail because of their own actions or decisions.

Of course though, this also bears the question of flaws vs handicaps, terms I picked up from a certain writing podcast I listened to a while while back. The important distinction being that handicaps are a lack of power or skill from the character, a weakness, whereas flaws are an element of the character's personality or beliefs.

Sorry if I'm rambling. This is a very good prompt! Maybe I'll write up a thread on what a good flaw is.

 

[kibou]

There's so many ways to make characters flawed that don't have to make them an asshole, or abrasive, etc. For example, being too selfless to the point you neglect your own needs or don't enforce boundaries and let people walk over you (and that probably creates more complications with their personality), or such a detail oriented perfectionist it makes you feel worthless because you can't even meet your own standards- though that also has potential to make you "abrasive" if you hold others to those same standards.

Honestly you can say your oc is perfect and not flawed and an angel and everyone loves them but that doesn't mean that in-character other people's ocs will react to yours how you want them, but it still creates issues, and usually someone like that does try to control how to rp goes, or other peoples characters perceptions, and is harder to interact with both ic and ooc. When people ask you to add flaws generally they're trying to see if you're "that kind" of person and will cause issues, and just making sure you're a okay enough rper/writer to get the concept of character development.

Your idea would work fine, though if your aim is to make a seeminly "perfect" character at first I'd let the gm in on the know so they don't reject you without knowing your future plans. I basically make all my ocs so there's possibilities they could have positive or negative development depending on how the rp goes. Honestly I prefer negative development, at least temporarily, cuz I'm a sucker for angst and drama. One of my ocs was in a position where no matter what at the end of their story, regardless of how much personal growth he'd make in the meantime, it'd probably end up a tragedy.

 

[nerdy tangents]

So I have been on both sides of this. I have written a character who thought they were a perfect flawless human being and I have played against a character who thought they were an unlovable monster.

In both cases the thing that made the characters fun was that it’s all perception.

As a player I never acted like people had to love my perfect character. In fact I expected most of the roleplay to hate her. I was pleasantly surprised that she actually made a lot of friends in the roleplay who were willing to treat her self absorbed monologuing like a funny quirk instead of a flaw.

As for the overly flawed monster character my own character was pretty much constantly challenging their negative self image (to the point I actually argued their player into a stand still). Cuz they had also expected their character to be treated as this overly flawed individual and my character just didn’t go along with that storyline.

So in both cases it’s really down to accepting that no matter what you write other people are going to have their own perceptions of your character that will be largely different than your own.

 

[Zelena]

Wait, there are characters?

 

[Jannah]

I've done this. I had a character in one RP who started out with a great life and was quite arrogant. However, over the course of the RP he gradually broke down due to trauma. By the end he was a very different person. Definitely much humbler.

 

[Melpomene]

I actually greatly enjoy characters like this!

I agree that some people tend to act like the only way a character can be flawed is if they are an unapologetic asshole, even though this is far from the truth. I remember thinking one of the characters I worked on the hardest was too perfect/flawless until I realized... she really wasn't. It was just that she was very sweet and tried to always be nice to people and she was very skilled in certain areas to the extent that if you only looked that deep into her, she seemed perfect, if perhaps shy. But then if you look, like, an inch deeper she is an absolute anxiety-ridden self-destructive mess of a person.

I think why it is less noticeable is because it is very much a "man vs. self" battle, and it isn't as blatantly obvious as someone being a complete dick. Characters like this tend to require more of a slow-burn story. I have done both "the asshole with the heart of gold" trope and this one, and I can tell you they need different stories to fully be able to work.

One problem that I think came is some people like to pretend like 'realistic' means dark, horrible, and gritty when realistic just means... well... realistic. And realistically there are people who seem perfect to outsiders but are a mess on the inside.

There are many things that could make for a good flaw, it does not always have to be 100% abrasive, unpleasant human being. For a proper character arc, truly I usually only recommend getting them at least one 'fatal flaw' which hinders them in achieving their goal. I think people go for abrasive asshole because it is one of the most... visible for a lack of better words.

 

[Daisie]

One problem that I think came is some people like to pretend like 'realistic' means dark, horrible, and gritty when realistic just means... well... realistic. And realistically there are people who seem perfect to outsiders but are a mess on the inside.

In fact, if the grittiness is played up enough, that alone can cause it to become unrealistic. Which is fine! Just don't mislabel it as realism when it's a dark drama-fest lol

Source: the person who has always liked RPing dark drama-fests

 

[Pumpkin Spice Cyanide]

I wanna make a character that blows up and then acts like they don't know nobody.
Huh ah ah ah ah

 

[GojiBean]

Okay, okay, okay.

I'm really, really bored of reading a linear progression of "Asshole to angel with a 'tude". I'm not saying it's not fun to write, or that it's not a good trope... I just want some variety.

So allow me to propose a thing for all of you people who are looking for new character ideas.

~Good character slowly falling into a pit of depression and poor mental health due to stress~
​

I love this trope. Love, love, LOVE this trope! It's SO GOOD. Just taking someone the characters viewed as perfect and maybe a bit otherworldly and showing that they're just the same as everyone else and, often, under a lot of stress. Watching a roleplayer take this nigh-flawless character and break them is just... *Chef kiss*. Perfect angst. And that one moment when they decide that they're okay with not splitting themself 100 different ways to try and please everyone and double-checking everything because they thought they have to be perfect is... amazing.

So, anyway,

Thoughts?

Well, I mean if I'm being perfectly 100% honest I think the example you gave about the good character falling into depression due to stress is pretty cookie cutter. In fact it's arguably the single most common trope used in most manga/anime today. Anytime you see a tsundere who's the student council president and falls for the MC, what do you think's happening? Yeah. It's your example. The only difference is it's less extreme. But little miss student council president is trying to be the perfect example and model student and doing everything she can to look the part which pushes her to exhaustion every day. The turning point is her newfound love for the main protag tearing down the veil of perfection and revealing who she really is piece by piece. Eventually she gives in when she realizes he accepts her for who she is and she stops trying to please everyone so she can just continue pleasing him by being herself. And thus we have a happy love story by the end.

Same trope. Same result. Just a different presentation and level of severity on the part of the consequences of her life's stress.

So while I can certainly understand being bored with the typical "asshole to angel" arc, I don't think putting your faith in tropes, specifically, is really the best way to go about prioritizing how you play or how you think about characters.

Our favorite tropes, no matter how "perfect" they seem to us in concept and on paper, will go nowhere if the execution on the part of the writer is total crap. Know what I mean?

What makes a character and their unique journey compelling is not the trope behind them. It's the execution of that trope and how well the author captures the main idea and presents it to the audience in a way that's meaningful, insightful, and emotional.

So yeah. Those are my thoughts on this matter.

Tropes don't mean anything if the writer's skills can't carry it to the finish line.

Cheers!

 

[BloomingScribe]

Personally, I really enjoy writing characters who are not perfect. I find great interest in tragedy, angst, and failure; but even more so when the story ends on an uplifting note of redemption or forgiveness. I don't like to write characters as exclusively grim or tragic. I like to have my characters experience joy along with their sorrows. In other words, they can be happy sometimes without being completely free from pain or loss. I rarely ever write mentally ill characters for lack of experience and fear of poor execution, and don't seek to romanticize mental illness either. But that doesn't mean I don't find beauty in writing about people struggling with serious emotional issues such as loss, grief, etc. Pain is something beautiful and natural to tap in to, especially if you're able to see past it all and offer some kind of hope for healing. Many people make beautiful art out of suffering. I really love your ideas of the good character slowly falling into a pit of depression and poor mental health due to stress. I should really try that one out sometime! I usually play out the same trope in reverse.